curmudgeon

1 ratings1 2 3 4 5

Mar 11th 2007, 12:02

Buffalo rising has their offices right across the street from the terminal. The staff put a lot of effort into keeping our attention and interest focused on that part of the city, a portion that really didn't receive much visibility before this blog was launched. Could it be that one of the editors or investors from this site are involved in real estate or entrepreneurial activities in the cobblestone district? Is that why there is such a slant against the casino and an absolute avoidance of the nearby projects in all of the staff produced articles on here? I am not saying that this is the case, but I am just wondering because it seems a little suspicious.

Medina_Sandstone

4 ratings1 2 3 4 5

Mar 7th 2007, 22:11

I appreciate the concern for the Broadway Market, because it is a genuine Buffalo treasure. There a way this market can proeed without cannibalizing the Broadway, and that is by not duplicating any of its shops and services. While "flea" may have been a turn-off to this readership, the underlying concept is sound. Sell what Broadway does not: used books, shoes, housewares, antiques, stamps & coins, you name it.

And, for the love of Pete, ignore those nitwits who say there is not enough parking. Downtown has sacrificed half of its architecture for surface and ramp parking. It is all too likely that these people based their verdict on irrational suburban mall parking ratios. There is no way you can satisfy them unless you tear down another half of downtown. We need more attractions, not more parking.

Biniszkiewicz

5 ratings1 2 3 4 5

Mar 8th 2007, 11:00

Two days in a row I agree with something Sally said. That's a record. Beside needing to start big in order to draw customers, the cost differential between starting big and starting small is negiligable. You still need restrooms, stairwells, elevator, entrances, utilities, paint, lighting, etc. for the most of the space anyway.

This terminal is a great space. The views out to the river are wonderful. It could be many things, if there's sufficient parking and access. I can picture a banquet hall. Or a children's museum. Or a car and train museum. I thought the Senecas should have used this for the casino, but I understand the impossibility given the NFTA's continued need for the ground floor. Besides, maybe we won't even get a casino, which would be better yet.

I own property one block from the Broadway Market. I hope the market does well. I have a real estate deal on the old K-Mart across the street (in my capacity of real esate agent) to a school. It's contingent on funding, so we'll see if it happens, but signs are promising. I'm optimistic about Broadway / Fillmore. St. Stan's has presold 40 some homes they will build, so I hear. Other groups are also planning new housing. I'm optimistic. I think the worst is past for that neighborhood. That said, WNY is not going to the Broadway Market. They will go to the downtown waterfront, imho.

This terminal should be used for Something. It's too good a space and location to be idle.

Parking shouldn't be a huge deal since a flea market would presumably operate on the weekends (at least to start, wouldn't it?). I'm not a flea market kind of guy. Is this more upscale than the big one on Walden?

I do hear occasional rumors that the flea market on Walden in Cheektowaga (once upon a time a GEX store) might be redeveloped into a new big box retailer. So far, there are no solid plans to do away with it. Should that happen, though, there would be an immediate need to relocate that one. How does that one differ from your idea? I imagine yours to be aimed at more artsy/crafty, but how do you find your niche wihtout letting in too many of the wrong vendors (those without taste) who make the place feel low class?

When Elgin Wolfe redeveloped Tri Main, this flea market is the route he first took. My recollection is that it foundered. Has anyone consulted him or those who know what the challenges were? Good luck with your proposal. I hope it has wings and legs.

IMADIVA

3 ratings1 2 3 4 5

Mar 8th 2007, 13:51

As a downtown resident and member of the organization (Working For Downtown) that created the "Bricks For Buffalo" pocket park adjacent to the terminal seven years ago, I would like to say that dwelling on the negatives won't move progress past "Go". A major problem in Buffalo has been the the lack of support for change; the parochial mindset of a few outspoken individuals and the silence of many. We need to create destinations for the public at large: whether it's the BM; a series of vendors - arts, antiques, food - located at the terminal or even a major retailer in order to capture the dollars that leave the City on a daily basis. Downtown Buffalo can be more than a locationfor offices, sporting events, theater, old and new residences: it can be a place that draws people from the the surrounding area and it can be a marketing tool to encourage new businesses and people to move to the area. Let's not look back in ten years and observe that we stopped at "GO".

thinkBuffalo

6 ratings1 2 3 4 5

Mar 7th 2007, 20:38

JohnMartin -

You make a great point - people don't want to go to the Broadway Market. Of course, that's tautological, as the Broadway Market wouldn't be struggling for people if people did indeed want to go there.

Reasonable people can disagree as to whether the DLW is the best place for a new city market - somewhere else downtown, around Elmwood or Delaware or Hertel could also prove successful - but I'm not sure a reasonable person can argue that the Broadway Market can serve this purpose. As you point out, it's in a rough area that has experienced the worst of Buffalo's decline. That's unfortunate, as it's a charming place that you hate to see languish, but we all have to make decisions as to what can be revitalized and what can't be - the Broadway Market can be stabilized, I suspect, but not brought back to what it once was.

I suspect you're not interested in reason, though, as you seem primarily interested in attacking the people behind this initiative because they don't agree with your approach.

Character attacks aside, I wonder if you're interested in taking your own advice - how about you start out with a small market and try building into a self-sustaining entity? Is there something that prevents you from taking action (not counting attacking people on a website)?

queenseyes

3 ratings1 2 3 4 5

Mar 7th 2007, 22:13

LivingForge, that is one of the questions that we are looking into. What is interesting is that the photo taken at the top shows that the rail pulls within a few feet of the river side stairs that lead up to the second level. That is where there are five access points that are currently operational. Just unlock the door and you’re in the space. LetsGoBuffalo, we are looking into activities for kids as well. By the way, have you heard of the proposed skate park? We are fully backing JP's efforts to see his vision become reality. With thousands of visitors to the Erie Basin Marina and access points along the Metro Rail including the University District? Someday they will have the option to not only visit the new waterfront museum, the Irish pub and possibly a market... and maybe the Metro Rail will lose its 'Train to Nowhere' stigma. I think that people would be surprised if they knew which 'phantom' businesses were interested in the terminal.

rhobin

3 ratings1 2 3 4 5

Mar 8th 2007, 07:02

It is not, of course, a perfect comparision. And, its mostly food, and has its own problems. But, I think the general idea is comparable.

http://www.milwaukeepublicmarket.org/index.shtml

Its' located near the river and it primarily serves folks who are living and working downtown. It is less of a 'destination' as it is useful for a community that already finds itself in the area. I don't think downtown Buffalo is there yet, but it is moving in that direction...

LetsGoBflo

3 ratings1 2 3 4 5

Mar 7th 2007, 19:56

Being a woman of color, I appreciate the effort this project is making for the Cobblestone/Waterfront area. There is nothing there now excpet for a few bars and tons of construction equipment. Once the market goes in, it will be a draw for others in the city and elsewhere visiting us. The additional draw will be for the kids, their dads and others who are interested in seeing excavation, construction and the big rigs needed to recrate the strong Buffalo of the past.

Newell, your team is right, unfortunately, the only thing one of the posters got right was that not everyone reads BR, so I am sure there are lots of others out there who would love to see this project come to be instead of making sport in commisseration and cutting every good idea to shreds.

Lucia

3 ratings1 2 3 4 5

Mar 9th 2007, 11:47

I would like to respond to the following coment made by "Newellsayscarf" yesterday at 3:50 - "Putting a market funded by taxpayer dollars in a desolete part of town that is only busy during sabres games and events at HSBC arena is a brilliant idea. The metro rail goes there, so it must be a logical place for such a venture?? Come on man, loosen that scarf around your neck and get some air, pal! ".

May I recommend to "Newellsayscarf" that you RESEARCH the facts and the varuables invovled BEFORE leaving harsh comments like this. Obviously this person has never been out to Antique World on a Sunday morning. It is located out in the middle of nowhere in Clarence and THOUSANDS of people who are antiquers have flocked out there every sunday for years. Antique World was recently sold by it's owner and I don't know what the future plan is for that location -- but I do know there is a tremendous interest in having an antique market downtown. I THINK IT IS A FABULOUS IDEA.

GioCent

3 ratings1 2 3 4 5

Mar 8th 2007, 10:48

As someone who works and hangs out downtown on almost a daily bases, I know that we Definitely NEED THIS! An actual market with retail, right along the Metro Rail in DOWNTOWN. I am all for it and fully support it. The Broadway Market is good if you live in that area or visit, but just like the Downtown Site (which would be different from the BM) They will both need great marketing to fully succesfull. For those against "HIP" it's just a market, and isn't Downtown the "Hottest" place to live in WNY right now? So why can't we have a "HOT" market for the new residence, workers and visitors?

sally

3 ratings1 2 3 4 5

Mar 8th 2007, 10:18

I think you have to start big on a project like this. You cannot start with 10 or 11 stalls. People will go there once see it's no big deal then never return. You need to make it big enough at the start so that when someone goes there they are impressed enough to tell their friends.

queenseyes

5 ratings1 2 3 4 5

Mar 7th 2007, 17:05

"The images above show an vacant DL&W in Buffalo vrs. a filled St. Lawrence Market in Toronto. The photos are used to show the similarity between the two spaces."

That is what my last comment was on the post. What does it mean? It means that we have been talking to a number of businesses that are totally opposite from what you will find at the Broadway Market. The idea was started with a flea market premise. Readership felt that word 'flea' would not fly. We are still incorporating a major retail (non-food) aspect into it. Of course we are talking to restaurants, and there will be a food component.

And Street Car, it may be a big space, but it will be made up of small, local businesses. It's everything that Golombek and others are saying, just in a self-contained space where businesses can play off each other. There is money out there for waterfront projects like this. I don't think that the Broadway Market can go after waterfront funds.

If the space is made hospitable for businesses, then guess what? They'll move in. Like any other building that is not owned by the occupant(s), there are certain capital improvements that must be made. The NFTA has said that if the market moves in then the capital improvements will have to come from somewhere else. So we're looking for it elsewhere. Fortunately, there are funds available for improving our waterfront.

lulu

3 ratings1 2 3 4 5

Mar 8th 2007, 10:05

Streetcar, no need to worry about how people are going to get there. They will be arriving by boat.

jen

2 ratings1 2 3 4 5

Mar 7th 2007, 20:52

Love the space. Good luck, I hope this idea comes to fruition.

StreetcarSuburbanite

4 ratings1 2 3 4 5

Mar 7th 2007, 16:42

Also, did anyone else see the irony that the previous post was titled "Bigger isn't always better for the city"?

Medina_Sandstone

2 ratings1 2 3 4 5

Mar 8th 2007, 08:55

You're barking up the wrong tree, Scooter. I think the readership of BRO is the most civically engaged section of the city. Just about all of us own an old house that we're working on, volunteer with a productive organization, or donate money to good local causes, or all of th above.

The people who don't give a sh*t about Buffalo and its fate do not log into blogs like this, they watch TV in sports bars and gripe into their beer.

libraryscience

2 ratings1 2 3 4 5

Mar 9th 2007, 19:56

screw the broadway market, don't give them any money. move the friggin broadway market downtown right accross the street from this thing and let them compete. the broadway market is in the fucking ghetto and whether any of you hippies will admit it or not its the reason nooone goes. put something downtown so when people come to buffalo for other reasons they dont say "my god downtown buffalo sucks what a crappy fucking city" like they have been for the last twenty years.

MRodgers

2 ratings1 2 3 4 5

Mar 7th 2007, 17:01

Let's see - irony from "Bigger..." post....hmmmm.... Oh, Yeah, could it be all those negating nags that jumped all over Joe Golombek and now we find he is a promoter of this effort? Or, could it be those comments that are anti-common council? Or could it be that.................dang - I could go on, but I would only get slammed and I really don't have the time or desire to jump into that type of quagmire anymore!

Congratulations, QE! Great job - what a feature for visitors wanting something more than to go shopping at a branded lcation when they are looking for something unique in an urban center. Somehow the parking will work out, especially if you ar working with Golombek, Davis, and Wolf - they're fantastic! And what a plus for would-be enterprenuers!

HelenWheels

2 ratings1 2 3 4 5

Mar 8th 2007, 18:19

"If you build it, they will come" To all the naysayers, I can only compare thee to a summer's day when a group fo individuals combatted the concept of a hotel in the Elmwood/Forest area that could have added value and tourism. Scream, kick, spit, vomit all you would like to, but the areas surrounding this proposed market will support it, as will the visitors that come to Buffalo will see it as refreshing.

It is uncanny to me that, when someone wants to move on a positive note, those who say they are fighting for a better Buffalo do so only with words.

You want to see something happen to the Broadway Market? Get out there and work with police, the Lower West Side Weed and Seed group, area businesses, and others who can make the dream come true. Stop hiding behind the falsities of "no one cares," "Buffalo Rising never says anything about the East Side," and other rants that have no platform.

Look beyond the City page and see the promotion of restaurants, the Broadway Market, the Central Terminal, and other businesses and organizations that BRO has promoted.

For the rest of the area, start within yourselves and roll up your sleeves just as all the others in various parts of the city have to make a difference, to make a change. It's your responsibility and that of your Common Councilmember who struts his stuff on issues surrounding the Albright-Knox rather than addressing the needs of his district. Didn't he just take part in a lecture/discussion on the need for more landmarks and historic districts at the Landmark Society last month? Why don't you work with him to bring up your area? If he doesn't respond to your plea, then do something besides sitting on your duffs and moaning about it. Vote him out of office, run yourselves if you think you can make that difference, stop whining and start doing something. Everyone else has and that's what makes Buffalo RISE.

queenseyes

6 ratings1 2 3 4 5

Mar 7th 2007, 16:24

Because boaters have complained for years that there are few waterfront destinations to go to. Boaters could go there to eat, or pick up their food to take with them. This could also be a launch point for Buffalo River and lake boat tours. And the upper and lower decks offer incredible vantage points onto waterfront activity.

urbanboarder

2 ratings1 2 3 4 5

Mar 9th 2007, 12:06

I agree with Queenseyes, great article! I think that this will only be a compliment to the surrounding development that is in the planning stages, and will hopefully become a reality within the next decade. Being fresh out of college, I find staying in the area not a burden, but a blessing to be experiencing such a rapid transformation and reinvestment in a city that has decayed for almost half a century. I forgot who, but someone called this another 'silver bullet'? I would hardly call a viable, sensible, and certainly feasible project a silver bullet. We are not dolling out millions to one corporate enterprise, we are using our allotted waterfront money wisely, and hopefully it will come to fruition!

Martin

2 ratings1 2 3 4 5

Mar 8th 2007, 07:43

Broadway markets day is done and gone, went there once, after 5 minutes we bolted. City's with a waterfront tend to use said waterfront for this purpose. Housing, boardwalks, nightlife and... retail. Unless Buffalo gets an influx of say 200 thousand people moving back to the city, the East side is pretty much a wrap. Sad, but true. This site annoy's me on many occasions do to the nay-sayers and I go days without looking at it as it depresses me to see how backwards Buffalonians still are after 30 years of decline. Then, I realize that the people who put down new idea's are not the "MOVERS AND SHAKERS" of the city. They are the one's who sit back and complain about such mundane things as how a new building building looks or how an area "should" be, without doing anything to change the city themselves. I would like to know how many of the nay-sayers actually purchased a run down home in the city and renovated it, opened a business and struggled, done some "gorilla dardening, anything at all for that matter to make this city viable again. Thank goodness there are Buffalonians such as Newell still living here and believe in the city, along with the many re-pats moving back with new idea's [and invest in the city] to help jump start this ole' Dame called Buffalo.

GioCent

2 ratings1 2 3 4 5

Mar 8th 2007, 10:52

And for those who think NOTHING is in this area. It is coming around right at this very moment. Just walk in almost any direction of this old terminal and disover a new project under way or on it's way. The Market idea is just a part of that over plan.

scooter

2 ratings1 2 3 4 5

Mar 8th 2007, 08:17

I think this is a great idea...... Some sort of market...be it food or local goods - on top of a dozen new things on the waterfront (mueseum....skate park....parks...ect....ect) really starts to add multiple reasons for people to head down there.......

The condition of the Broadway Market is sad. But out of towners WILL NOT head to that neighborhood. Nor will 80 % of locals...........sad.....but true. (I am part of the 20% that goes)

But I think both can survive..... The terminal can have a good mix of food and locally made goods.....such as art. For those of you that are familiar with Cornell/Ithaca's market.....small........fruit....locally made goods.....this would be a perfect here....very trendy. Great A.M. spot. Would not compete with Broadway......

And converting this structure to a sort of open air market wont be that difficult. Restroom, second floor handicap access and basic heat. The subway pulls right in....perfect....college students load up in Buffalo/Amherst and head down to the water front.......how easy is that. That seems easier then driving to the mall.

Buffalopundit

2 ratings1 2 3 4 5

Mar 8th 2007, 10:28

Don't forget that the ECHDC's "Canal Side" plan already includes what they've described as a Quincy Market style market in the immediate vicinity.

I don't have a problem with Newell's plan, and envision something more similar to London's Spitalfields Market, which has more of an emphasis on local artisans and artists than with food (see St Lawrence Market). Broadway Market also has a greater emphasis on food, but Quincy Market has both retail (mostly chains nowadays) and food.

lulu

4 ratings1 2 3 4 5

Mar 7th 2007, 16:07

Why is Waterfront access a pro?

JohnMartin

8 ratings1 2 3 4 5

Mar 7th 2007, 16:33

Also, does anyone else see the irony that this site, which typically assails silver bullet economic development, is now advocating for just such a heavily government funded project?

God forbid that you guys start out with a smaller market that grows organically and eventually becomes large enough to self fund a massive waterfront project like this.

VictrolaMan

5 ratings1 2 3 4 5

Mar 7th 2007, 20:49

Fully agree with JohnMartin - concentrate on the Broadway Market, which ALREADY HAS utilities, public bathrooms, plenty of safe parking, and is surrounded by a customer base. Trying to put a market into the former sheds of a railroad, on the second floor, with no electricity, plumbing, heat, a/c, or parking - and actually no access (totally surrounded by tracks and water) is just silly.

If you really must have a market in the area of South Park and Michigan, just put it in one of the immense parking lots - at least the vendors won't need to haul everything up & down stairs.

JohnMartin

9 ratings1 2 3 4 5

Mar 7th 2007, 17:24

Lets not kid ourselves, you don't want to utilize The Broadway Market for this effort because it's not cool enough and people might be exposed to a "real" part of Buffalo, where a mix of blue collar, working poor, and ethnic people live. It's also on the east side which this site has shown a total disregard for since its inception (aside from the occasional bone thrown to Torke or Miller).

The idea offered by Chris Byrd of BFA was to incorporate your idea into the Broadway Market and make a total urban experience. The Market already has the cultural cred and it has a ton of unused space on the property that you could place your cool hipster market in. It would give a complete experience and be grounded in Buffalo's cultural heritage.

Instead, you guys are going to go begging the politicians for money to make a huge market that will draw funding and traffic away from The Broadway Market.

Aside from the fact that I'm irked about your disregard for viable alternatives in other areas of the city, I'm irritated by your desire to plant a seed and grow a super flea market overnight. Try building a small market and grow it until it is a self sustaining entity.

In the end, I know that's not what you guys do here, you just want to snap your fingers and have your lily white, good life, hipster vision applied to a city that requires real solutions.

StreetcarSuburbanite

3 ratings1 2 3 4 5

Mar 7th 2007, 23:43

Medina, believe it or not, but most of the people who would patronize this hypothetical market will arrive by car, especially if it's set up in this somewhat-isolated/desolate location.

I suppose the clientèle could park along all those cute little cobblestone streets which currently don't do much more than serve as linear partitions, dividing up the vast sea of asphalt some like to call "The Cobblestone District."

As much as many BRO readers dislike cars (I'm one of them), people will need a place to park. That's why I think starting this market out SMALL in a parking lot or public square within downtown proper, where ample municipal parking already exists, would be the better way to go in the beginning. If proven successful, the market could justify being moved to a bigger, more impressive venue like the DL&W.

In my previous remarks, I really didn't mean to piss in Newell's cheerios. His heart is in the right place and he has only the best of intentions for the future of this city. But, it's the how-we-get-"there" part that opens up a world of difference in opinion. If Newell and everyone on-board can pull this off as currently planned, they will have my undying respect for ages to come. Alas, living in Buffalo most of my life, I can smell a stinking silver bullet folly from ten miles away. Throw in a major dose of NFTA contingency and it makes the picture look even bleaker. Couple this with a waterfront area AT LEAST ten years away from being "presentation-ready" and all I can do is shake my head in disbelief and continue to be a cynical bastard on this whole issue.

thinkBuffalo

1 ratings1 2 3 4 5

Mar 11th 2007, 18:08

Yesterday's comment said Buffalo Rising was a shill for the Casino, and today's criticism is there's a 'slant against the Casino.'

I'm curious - the 'absolute avoidance of the nearby projects' refers to what? What projects around the Cobblestone area have been avoided? The Irish Bar that was profiled a few days ago? What else is there?

AuburnAve

1 ratings1 2 3 4 5

Mar 13th 2007, 16:20

Don't we think that one of the keys to Buffalo revitalization (including the BM/ East Side and all surrounding suburbs in WNY) is to create critical mass in our downtown core?

This DLW terminal would definitely spur that. Water access with boats. Evening hours after Sabres games / casino losses. I assure you that there is no "traffic" at the BM (other than Easter week!) to draw away. Its a separate idea, a separate market. I love the BM, but I think more and more that love stems merely from nostalga (pictures / history. I wasn't around), not for practicality. Bread is stale there, fruits spoiled. Shops close Mondays. It smells. Petru Lupas (great meat!) and the Lotto market, I would guess, along with the banks M&T and Key, support the market by themselves with their rents. Peter even mentioned last year that he may need to leave soon (though he just recently expanded his sq ftage).

Please, I love preservation, and I do like the BM (I even work next door and venture there on occasion), but I am a bigger fan of macro-city growth / downtown growth. As the city core grows, so shall the region.

SerenityNow

2 ratings1 2 3 4 5

Mar 8th 2007, 14:56

Two retail anchors have expressed an initial interest in learning more about the proposal, and upwards of twenty smaller businesses have also expressed their enthusiasm and possible involvement.

I wonder how much flow of customers who buy things would be needed to make a bunch of businesses like that survive?

Sure, there’s some downtown residents and workers currently underserved by nearby retail options, but this wouldn’t seem to address those kinds of needs much.

In good weather months, I could easily believe a few thousand customers might show up every Saturday and Sunday, mostly to patronize restaurants and food/produce vendors. This would eat into commerce currently occurring in the Elmwood area and Bidwell Marketplace, but hey that’s life.

On a given weekday, however, isn’t it a little hard to believe that customers would number more than a few hundred at most? How many businesses would that keep open?

The customer base for arts and antiques just doesn’t sound to me like it’d be very much on a day-after-day, week-after-week, month-after-month basis.

And in January/February and other not-great weather days throughout the year, how likely is it more than a few dozen customers would go down there per weekday, even for eating and food shopping?

Or maybe the plan is that some stores would not be year-round operations?

On a non-summer Saturday, I could envision maybe a couple hundred customers - but even that sounds like a stretch.

Certainly a lot will depend on what the anchor stores are, but I really wonder if any very popular stores would go through with locating there after they do real market research and analysis of all this.

Maybe the non-anchors would be open only during the summer, and only weekends and holidays?

JohnMartin

6 ratings1 2 3 4 5

Mar 7th 2007, 16:29

Congratulations! Your work will most assuredly detract from any potential state or federal funding scraps that The Broadway Market struggles to obtain.

Good luck!

NewGuy

1 ratings1 2 3 4 5

Mar 10th 2007, 12:01

Sad but true, Many (including myselft) do not go to the Broadway Market or it's neighborhood because we dont' feel it's safe. I may go if I was with a bunch of people, but never alone. And yes, our downtown is still dead. We have an extra 1,000 people living here, yet, less retail offered. Many vacant storefronts an empty mall, no excitement during the day, that is why people don't visit here unless they had too.

Jefferson

1 ratings1 2 3 4 5

Mar 8th 2007, 11:58

I think it's a good idea and needn't compete all that much with the Broadway market if it becomes more of a flea/art type market like Eastern Market in DC. If the area around the B'way Market could be repopulated I think that market will stay on. Newell and others- don't let the Ann Coulter wannabees get you down!

EAJ

1 ratings1 2 3 4 5

Mar 11th 2007, 11:01

I have read this over during the past week and feel I should respond to all of this negativity towards the Broadway Market. I own a business at the Broadway Market and I have also owned a clothing store on Elmwood Ave. No one can compare the two retail areas better than I can. No one has tried to make a living running both stores at the same time. Most people will be surprised to hear my store in the Broadway Market is alive and successful. I closed my store on Elmwood after 7 years in business because I couldn't keep up with the high rents and low traffic. Elmwood Ave businesses are reliant on walking traffic because of lack of parking and thus in winter you might only see 1-2 customers per day. If its is raining or snowing you can call the day a wash. How do you pay rent, employees, insurance, comp, taxes, utilities etc making only $200-$300 per day? I feel that many of the Elmwood retail shops that are successful own their buildings and have other sources of income to sustain their business ventures. Yes many new stores open on Elmwood only to close 1-2 years later.

My store on Elmwood was held up at gunpoint, had a high volume of shoplifters and often we had our cars broken into . On the other hand, I can honestly say that my store at the Broadway Market has never been held up, has a lower rate of shoplifters and is able to support my family. My car has never been broken into and I feel the fear that people have of the Broadway Market is based purely on ignorance and prejudice. I will admit that the surrounding neighborhood is by the far the poorest in Buffalo, however the neighborhood is what sustains the Market year round.

Yes it is a neighborhood in poor condition but so was Allentown 30 years ago. Lets not forget folks that Allentown used to be the ghetto. I remember when crack whores and panhandlers would line the street ( and on occasion still do). Even the quaint street that is now North Pearl was lined with boarding houses and heroin addicts just 5 years ago.

All the negativity about the Broadway Market is unwarranted. More people visit the Market from outside the neighborhood than one realizes. It does attract a large amount of tourists who often comment that they wish they had something like it in thier hometowns. It is the close minded western New Yorkers that don't appreciate what they have right here in the inner city.

I will be the first to admit. The Broadway Market is not fancy or upscale. But that is part of its charm. It is an authentic old world public marketplace. Not a privately owned copy of one. I will also admit that it can use new shops to attract more customers year round . We could use an Asian restaurant or store, a store that specializes in Hispanic foods, florist or plant shop, kitchenware store and the list goes on. The market also needs to work harder on having a year round farmers market. It should be open longer hours and on Sundays and should offer space to local artisans on the weekends. It should hire a young vibrant Marketing Specialist to improve its image and to promote the good things about the market. Where else can you find 1300 free parking spots in a shopping district in Buffalo????

I encourage anyone who wants to open a small business to come and take a look. There are a lot of positives that will ultimately effect your bottom line.

1. Rents or reasonable compared to Elmwood Ave. 2. Lower electric bills ( My electric bill on Elmwood around $300/month, at the Market $40/month) 3. No Heating costs (My heating bill on Elmwood was $200/month) 4. In an Empire Zone 5. Broadway Market offers group health insurance without having to join the Chamber of Commerce. 6. Free trash removal 7. Private security 8. Free covered parking 9.Constant customer traffic that is not reliant on weather . This you are unable to have in a stand alone storefront on Elmwood or Allentown. 10.Although it is once a year I have to say it 10,000 customers per DAY during Easter week visit the Broadway Market. That is a lot more customers than any store gets during the entire Christmas Season on Elwmood.

Although having a store on Elmwood was an eye opener and a good learning experience, the "cool factor" of owning a store on Elmwood does not pay the bills. All of you nae sayers should think twice before bashing the Broadway Market . There is a reason why it has remained open for over 100 years.

Lucia

1 ratings1 2 3 4 5

Mar 8th 2007, 10:53

My understanding is the Buffalo River Market is intended to be an ARTS and ANTIQUES market that also will have food and intertainment, etc. That shoud not detract and would have a different focus than the Broadway market. Right now few people make the effort to drive into the city to go to the Broadway Market. Perhaps if people where coming down to the Arts and Antiques market they would be more inclined to make the small trek over to the Broadway Market. In other words, maybe a downtown market would enhance the Broadway Market. Who knows, maybe the Broadway Market could run a shuttle between the two, broadening the acess for both populations.

MRodgers

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Mar 8th 2007, 18:56

If I and my neighbors didn't take the bull by the horn and do something the West Village would not have experienced the renaissance (ooops, shameless subliminal promotion of the WVRG here) it has in the past two years.

We easily could have whined about all the crime and decay, but we did something constructive and came up with proactive solutions to present to our councilmember Brian Davis and others. It is, with action and a professional delivery of ideas, that anything or dream worth imagining can come true.

While many attempt to tear apart anything before its time, such as this worthy endeavor, just remember, QE, mediocrity ALWAYS attacks excellence!

I can't for this market to take shape. I am also confident that, considering the source of the concept, no one will be left out on the playing field. So many other cities have started their "seaport markets" like this. Some, in the south, have started just with a few of the homegrown crafts and they have blossomed into THE feature for their areas.

I agree with HW, if you build it, they will come - and from all over...

OffTheWall

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Mar 10th 2007, 10:00

31,Elmwood Entreprenuer, Ex NYC/Toronto Resident, Allentown homeowner, Buffalo Believer....Salutes Newell for thinking big all the time. We're behind you buddy. Whatever you need whenever.Nuff Said...

newellsayscarf

3 ratings1 2 3 4 5

Mar 8th 2007, 03:50

Comparing this project to the St. lawrence in Toronto makes about as much sense as comparing an apple to an orange.

The similarity of the architecture between DL&W and the St. Lawrence Market in Toronto is about the only reality between the two situations. Were not Toronto!

Putting a market funded by taxpayer dollars in a desolete part of town that is only busy during sabres games and events at HSBC arena is a brilliant idea. The metro rail goes there, so it must be a logical place for such a venture?? Come on man, loosen that scarf around your neck and get some air, pal!

Reality

1 ratings1 2 3 4 5

Mar 10th 2007, 19:56

Ask a cop how heavy Buffalo Police coverage is at the Broadway Market for Easter shopping. And if that's the level of police coverage required to make people from outside that area feel safe shopping down there, tell me how the fuck that scales to 52 weeks out of the year.

Further, the Broadway market is an antiquated novelty. It's an occasion-driven destination. It is completely uninformed by how modern people shop and what they shop for.

In a city that's lost its collective shit because 6 black kids who started a fight and were suspended for 6 months returned to class, how are you going to turn the Broadway Market (which is, as far as most everyone with money who could sustain an urban market is concerned, is in the middle of the fucking ghetto) into a thriving center for shopping and hipster recreation and fun?

People already work downtown, especially near the DL&W. They work at 1 News Plaza. They work at HSBC bank and processing center. There's already been significant progress made on the development of the inner harbor. The DL&W is right at the end of the light rail that suburban folks already use to go to Sabres games and concerts. There's not enough residential density or destination allure to sustain the Broadway Market. Downtown is where there's a development spark. It's where lots of money is being spent. It's where more and more young professionals and empty nesters want to live and play.

The DL&W Market is going to happen. And the Broadway Market will never be anything other than a quaint and nostalgic indulgence; a pilgrimage people take once a year under the guard of significantly increased police protection. And after they've had their yearly butter lamb and links or Redlinski's sausage, it's back to what modern professional/creative class find at Wegman's and Premier and Globe and SPoT and Lexington Coop. This is the sensibility that must inform a contemporary urban market. And it needs to be in a place people are comfortable going and is in the middle of other development.

You guys know this. Why are you being so willfully stupid? Do you hate Newell that much? He started The Elmwood Art Festival. He started Buffalo Old Home Week. He started Buffalo Rising. And he's going to start this. He has the experience, the contacts, the type of legacy that in this city definitely helps to get things done, the support and the experience. Hate all you want. It only makes you look stupid.

LivingForge

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Mar 7th 2007, 20:22

Newell -

Is the NFTA going to add MetroRail service right to the site? Will you be able to get off right there on the ground floor?

Lucia

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Mar 11th 2007, 11:22

Why is there always a focus on the negative or an assumption that change will " hurt the Broadway Market". Of course the Broadway Market is a special part of Buffalo and as I said in my earlier comment - perhaps the Buffalo River Market will ENHANCE the Broadway Market. Why can't we focus on all the WONDERFUL POSSIBILITIES? As I said earlier - lets run a shuttle from the River Market to the Broadway Market and open up the possibilities for both populations.

StreetcarSuburbanite

3 ratings1 2 3 4 5

Mar 7th 2007, 19:01

Newell....

1. The fact these these phantom businesses will be local is a given and not even a part of this argument.

2. Relying on your web site's "readership" responses isn't exactly sound market research. Believe it or not, a majority of people/potential customers don't read these blogs.

3. Is plunking down retail and markets on the waterfront really the best idea right now? The whole area is a decontextualized clusterfuck mess; it looks like shit. It needs millions of $$$ worth of cleanup (take the damn skyway down!) before we can worry about turning it into some retail-laden hip disneyland.

4. I'll say it again....the DL&W is just too damn big for a hipster flea market

davvid

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Mar 8th 2007, 09:47

Medina_Sandstone. there are plenty good participating citizens that are not a part of this blog.

Medina_Sandstone

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Mar 8th 2007, 08:55

Sorry, Scooter, that was Martin I meant to address.

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