DMD, I'm with you there. Dash's would be an improvement over Latina's (although I did love the wide selection of Italian items), but a Trader Joe's would make me weep for joy.
go here to request a location in Buffalo. They have locations in smaller cities than Buffalo, so why not here?
I think Dash's would be the most logical and most realistic option. Does anyone know if they are seriously exploring this location? Would it be helpful to put together a coalition of people who could lobby Dash's for a market here? I appreciate your feedback.
What has always struck me about this location is that regardless of whatever supermarket occupied the main space and regardless of whether there is ian occupant in the main space or not, the parking lot on Elmwood always looks incredibly large and incredibly empty. As for the rear parking lot, exactly whose idea was it to tear the McKim, Mead and White designed Metcalfe House down for another empty parking lot.? As Buffalo demo blunders go, this is right behind the Larkin Office Building, another building taken down for parking. The other observation that I've had about this so-called plaza is the disproportionately of the supermarket space to the 3 or 4 other retail spaces at the far right end of te building. Other than the constant presence of the UPS store, the other retail space has bounced back and forth between occupancy and vacancy for years. To change the current situation, we'll need some RFP's from Mr. Wanamaker's office and at the end of the RFP cycle, a designated developer who will, on the merits of their proposal, demolish the plaza building and tear up the acres of asphalt. Personally, I'd like to see underground parking with a large portion(75% ???)of the current asphalt returned to green space. with a new building set into this green space in the style of a town common. This setting could create a very pleasant experience. As for Allentown's daytime wanderers, the fantasy of these wanderers suddenly wandering around the original village portion of Williamsville, congregating down by the old Glen and casually urinating all over Mill St. gives me a hardy laugh. I'm sure that in response, the usual Amherst officials would call for a discontinuance of the public bus lines that run out Main St as a follow up to their traditional stance against a metro rail expansion to UB North because of their fears of bad city people coming to loot the Boulevard Mall.
Latina's failed because it was a lousy store. The shelves were empty, the service slow. But as a grocery store, it was a good idea for that space. I will miss Latina's for its convenience, which quite honeslty, is what drives most consumer choice when time is an issue and the to-do list is long. Or more accurately, it is a balance between convenience and quality. The West Side has a population of people, of all kinds, that would appreciate a nearby grocery store, within walking distance. A Trader Joe's would be amazing....the prices are on line with Wegman's, and as someone mentioned, they are similar in size (at least the handful of those I've been to in Boston and downtown Philly attest to that). But I could be happy with an Aldi's, Tops, Dash's (or a mini-Wegman's....would they even consider?!?!) as long as it stays an active space and will save me a 10-20 min car trip for milk, bread and eggs. Neighborhoods are about what you can access with your feet, not your car.
One thing we're forgetting here is that most of the subsidized housing and low-income housing was there before the revitalization efforts. Therefore, the social gentrification proposed is wrong. Diversity is good ut t needs help, help from social services and accountbility on social services. I've spoken with some case workers (not all - many are very good) who care nothing for the responsibilities they shoulder and, as a result, many of their charges are walking around aimlessly, without the support they need.
For anyone to go into any area and decide who should and should not live there is wrong. Aloha, maybe you misunderstood my previous post. WE can do something - by holding those responsible for their charges aka clients, who need help and assure they get that help. But, I understand, we're all very busy, and that's very unfortunate, especially for the folks who are considered undesireable by many.
Closest Whole Foods is on Avenue Road in Toronto. Not too far from the Rolls Royce / Bentley dealership, as luck would have it.
Closest Trader Joes are in the Cleveland market.
Buffalopundit, are you saying that simply putting the parking in the back of a new plaza is somehow way more expensive than having it out front?? I know that new building is expensive, but it doesn't seem to prevent new Benderson plazas from sprouting up like weeds. IIRC, you're always going on about "The Bendersonization of WNY."
Also, BP, you're wrong about Dash's. There is store on Hertel Ave. in N.Buffalo that is built up to the sidewalk and attracts a good amount of neighborhood foot traffic from YES, well-heeled folks who own cars. The store is doing so well that it's about to undergo renovations and be expanded considerably and get a very upscale makeover. Dash's would be perfect for this location. I believe the failure of Latina's and previously Quality in this plaza is due more to mismanagement and poor marketing sense rather than the location itself. The store space is too big and outdated. The Bigbox formula won't work here, as Wegmans and Tops have that market cornered. Dash's is "right-size", a medium box that is big enough to offer all the mundane food items at decent prices, yet small enough to be custom-tailored to a specific niche.
On the topic of grocery stores, TJs and WFs are catastrophically unlikely to locate in this entire area, much less Stuy plaza. These are national giants that work on the same economic network that largely sees Buffalo as being off the radar screen at this point in time. The part about Wegmans keeping them out merits some credibility too.
MRodgers-
I'm not so sure I agree with this statement:
"One thing we're forgetting here is that most of the subsidized housing and low-income housing was there before the revitalization efforts. Therefore, the social gentrification proposed is wrong."
I think the market can, and should dictate where subsidized housing belongs. I doubt you'd see Section 8 Housing on Central Park West, or in The Village, or in an successful portion of any major city. The ebb and flow of economics dictates you position tax-generating housing where you can maximize profits. We need a social and economic safety net, we don't need to put it in growth-oriented places in the city. Whether we want to admit it or not the perception (Oft times nowhere near the reality) of Section 8 housing is bad; and it DOES decrease property values. If we want the type of growth Buffalo Rising purports it wants, we need to make some socially unpleasant decisions, like moving the residents of the Stuyvestant to a less desireable area, or bulldozing Marine Drive for commercial/residential areas.
I do agree with your analysis of the mentally ill; it's not a choice, it's a disease. And I do feel our county, state, and federal governments don't do enough. I don't however blame the caseworkers as much as an underfunded system. I do feel (After time with many caseworkers) that most are overworked, undercompensated, and have nowhere near enough time to do what they NEED to do to care for their patients. I do blame Reagan-era cutbacks that have continued to gut the system. And as our population is beginning the age, it will get worse...
Just my 2-cents, again.. :)
What ever happened to drug users and abusers, now they are 'self-medicated victims of society'. There are so many services available to these people that they can either choose to use or ignore; but there is no reason for them to turn to crack, alcohol, or other drugs for 'self-medicating' purposes. That is a bunch of political correct bullshit, but it is what I have grown to expect from the liberal left on this board.
Speaking of liberals - STEEL, when are you moving to Buffalo? When you move, will you live with the poor and mentally ill, or will you move your family to a cleaner and more affluent area? I really can't wait for you to put your money where you mouth is because I, for one, have grown sick of your blowhard pontification from across the Great Lakes.
I make 29k a year and I live in Wheatfield while I put myself through school. People have such a naive concept of what Wheatfield really is.
Wow, what a discussion!
IMHO, Trader Joes, like a lot of chain stores, are highly overrated. One of the reasons I am moving TO BUFFALO from the Northwest, is the LACK of chain stores!
Buffalo has a wonderful co-op, Guercio's, Wegman's, Bidwell Farmer's Market in the summer.... In a world gone mad with more choices than any human being needs, I am going to revel in the lovely absence of some of the chain stores that live in strip malls in every State I've lived in.
I am not a wealthy person, nor am I poverty stricken. Like everyone, I make choices about where I spend my money and if something costs a little more but comes from a place with a SOUL, I'll choose it and maybe have fewer THINGS overall. I don't have the solution to solving Buffalo's economic issues; what I do have is passion for the city and a strong desire to see her live up to her potential.
Buffalonians...you have stunning architecture, afforable housing, an abundance of natural beauty, an active art scene, music playing EVERYWHERE, seasons...and from what I have discovered, some of the most passionate, dedicated, active citizens who are trying to "be the change they want to see". And before anyone tells me there are no jobs, or at least no decent paying ones, I'll tell you I see many, many listings when I search and the grass ain't much greener out West. I have many friends who can't find jobs paying more than $10/hr. in cities that cost much more to live in. My sister makes $11.50 an hour in San Diego where a small, no frills apt. in a suburb nowhere near a beach costs her $900/month. She is moving to the Mid-South next year.
I was raised in San Diego,have lived in several different cities and have CHOSEN Buffalo as my future home, in fact we will be there in June :) I think city planners/politicians/developers could learn a lot by looking to Portland, Oregon for ideas and inspiration. They have some beautiful mixed use buildings that even have market rate lofts with some affordable flats ( income restrictions, NOT section 8 ) which all sit atop a slightly upscale market. Buffalo has the raw material to work with; she just needs folks with the vision, drive and sure, money to make her truly soar. I want to be a part of that.
"You may say I'm a dreamer...but I'm not the only one"
Last time I checked, my paycheck looked pretty good and I live in Allentown BUT I have to shop elsewhere. Latina's just did not have what I want.
Aloha/Steel-
There's a huge problem with your thought process. It won't work. Being an ex-Human Services company social worker, with a wife still in the business, Section 8 isn't in the burbs for the same reason you love the city. Walkability, close access to public transportation, density, etc.
The 'burbs were created, and maintained by a commuter class. It's all driveable. The vast majority of S-8 peeps don't have, or have access to a car. As such, it's a perpetuating problem, mid/high-end city residents move out, with cars, and continue to commuter class. Lower-income residents stay in the city, fueling the idea that the city is for "poor" people, limiting desireability for mid/high-income residents.
Moving S-8 residents to East Aurora, OP, Amherst, Lancaster, Clarence, though fun for you to shoot back at the suburbanites you all love, would hurt the clients greatly.
I do believe, however, we should re-evaluate the placement of S8 housing periodically in the city (Stuyestant, and Marine Drive for prime examples). We can, and should, provide clean,modern, and safe housing for those less fortunate. But, I don't believe it should be at the expense of development, or progress within the city. Can you say waterfront subsidizied housing anyone? I'm not trying to be cold; I am all for supporting people less fortunate. But, there are limits.
As far as Latina's, and the plaza, first off no shock it's closing. Do you think the other grocery store left because it was insanely profitable? I also think it's interesting how we all want lo/mid-rise condos/apartments, with greenspace, and first floor retail. Carlamlone hit it right on; nobody here's ponying up the loot, and it's a big ticket item. It's not gonna happen. At least for a while. Why rip down a partially occupied plaza, when there are lots in the city? So, let's think more grassroots... Can we re-facade the plaza? Can we re-do the light fixtures? Can we add another strip of shops? Can we add some of the cool ironwork used on the "Welcome to Allentown" sign next door? Can we get some resident artists to dress the place up with planters, and unique artwork? Can we get a neighborhood group to pitch it all to the developer, subsidized by the residents who care so much about this "eyesore"?
There's lots we CAN do without a $20Mil project to make this commercially viable plaza cooler. Think differently guys.... -Oldimpala
I'd like to see a mixed use, consumer-friendly development which respects the heritage and preservation of our urban fiber. Something which shows: planning matters. I want something that wows me but still respects our inner heritage. I want to be able to dictate the terms of development even though I will invest not one dime in it. I want a developer to come in, commit the necessary resources, and risk and then I want to sue them right before they commence. I want a project that ignores the underlying economic conditions of the area and invests hundereds of millions w/o taxpayer subsidy. I want it to be largely a public green space with small retail (mom and pop). I want ...
MRodgers... With all the efforts of churches, non-profits and that state, if people choose not to take advantage of help out there what more can be done? There is indeed a great deal of choice involved. Many choose to live a life in squalor.
The issue isn't whether the working poor or the mentally ill are an impediment to revitalization efforts. I'm disturbed people would find anyone who fits the aforementioned situation to be "entertainment" or target for ridicule. People fall on hard times because of bad choices or just downright bad luck. I respect those who try to better themselves.
The issue is whether city residents should put up with feral segments of our population that refuse to work under any circumstance. There are generations of people who believe that public housing and a county check is a lifetime guarantee. I have zero tolerance for able bodied people who beg/steal than work. The fact is that highly concentrated warehoused public housing is always a source for crime... It might not be a warm and fuzzy statement but nevertheless it is true.
OK OK OK - how about enough of the personal attacks on each other or the "suburbs" and offer some constructive ideas for that particular commerical property versus?
I think a Kudos should go out to Latina's for TRYING for two years to make it. It is a lot of work (and very expensive) to run a business and I am sure it was not an easy decision for them to close.
That space may not be the right size for a profitable grocery store in that area of Elmwood. Maybe reduce the size to around Guercio's or the Co-op in the future for the next food retailer? It just may be out of proportion to the actual sales the space generates as well as the expenses from outdated or non-energy efficient fixtures, etc...
And I totally agree with Christa - I LIKE the variety of people in our City...that's why I own a house here and I am raising my kids here as well. It is a personal choice. Please stop attacking each other on where you live.
DSB, and out of choice they are prey to human predators, they lose themselves. Do you have a family member with a mental illness? I do and without her meds, she forgets how to bathe, how to have a conversation, that there are others who love her very much, that she once attained a PhD. And these are the people many have posted are the "characters" that give them such entertainment in the area. Were they born to entertain? I think not. But we were born t have compassion and caring, and to let these folks succumb to the wants of a few who unrighteously take advantage of them is absolutely wrong. To run herd and send them out of where they have identified as their home as if they were cattle, is wrong. To hold businesses or government funded agencies accountable for thier responsibilities is right.
Example 1: an elderly woman, needing her meds, self-medicates with booze. She lives in a room without heat. A neighbor calls her case worker. He says "It's starting to warm up soon." She is found dead three weeks later (after having died five days previously).
Example 2: a young man, recently diagnosed with schizophrenia self-medicates with crack. His landlady doesn't care about him, she's just waiting for him to recertify so she gets her monthly check. His case worker asks "What do you want me to do about it. It'shis choice." He's found dead after eight weeks. When they move his body (or what's left of it in the July heat) his head falls off.
Accountability is desparately needed. You can say "I don't care." You can say "They have a choice." But, what happens if it happens to you? Stranger things have happened...
Folks-
I think that a Trader Joe's or Whole Foods is not a realistic possibility for the Buffalo area. Although access to high quality food and gourmet offerings is appealing, we don't have enough people willing to buy toilet paper at $2 a roll to support a store with that kind of overhead. I do think that an attractive store carrying a variety of products (both staples and highbrow chow) would do well. To view an interesting post on Trader Joe's and Whole Foods in Buffalo, click here.
Regarding the "low income" population on Elmwood (an elsewhere in the city), I value them. One of the things that keep Elmwood from becoming Williamsville-lite with a few dreadlocked residents is the economic diversity of the area. I rarely volunteer my opinions on things related to the city on BR, but this topic is something that I am very passionate about.
I chose to move to Elmwood 9 years ago because I wanted to raise my children in an environment where they would be exposed to a variety of people with different lifestyles. In my opinion, it is the best way to raise a child that has flexible social skills, a capacity for acceptance and a sense understanding for other human beings. That being said, I am somewhat disappointed by the almost-total gentrification and homogenization of the Elmwood area, and would hate to see more of our colorful residents exiled to the suburbs as though they were of any less value to the neighborhood than those with more money and better health insurance.
The development of Elmwood has been vital to the revitalization of the city; it's property values, business development and employment rates. In many ways, it is a fantastic place to live, and the changes have been very positive. It frustrates me to find that a drive to "improve" the area would lead to a discussion about removing certain demographics from their homes. Let's not forget that many of those "lower income" people are families, artists and college kids.
MRodgers: you win: everybody can and does live at Summer/North/Elmwood. That's why the neighborhood is doing just grand. heck, why bother worrying about yuppies or well-to-do young families who want to live and shop there when we should be encouraging examples 1 & 2 to stay or relocate there? Joey: thinking there's a difference between tearing down a nice house for more parking at a second-rate greasy spoon and tearing down a monstrosity of a failed plaza for something real that may work, makes one an elmwood ave elitists?
If you don't mind, I'll answer your question and try to keep things on a more constructive level.
While you correctly point out that the majority of government in Erie County is based in the suburbs; regional mass transportation, highways, road construction, housing subsidies, and general infrastructure source from state and federal funding. It's not as if the Mayor of Depew has the power of the pen to suddenly house the poor and indigent on a whim.
Why is it the "responsibility" of the city? Well, it is and it isn't. Tax dollars from Clarence and Amherst go into buckets in Albany and are redistributed through various programs and grants to organizations and governmental authorities in urban areas across the region and state, including Buffalo. So, in essence, they do share the burden already.
Why do poor people live in urban areas? High density, ease of transportation, and dozens of other reasons. To simply wish away urban poverty by clamoring for Amherst to fix hundreds of years of poor planning mistakes doesn't actually solve the problem. It simply shifts it to another locality, which benefits no one...in fact, it would probably do more harm than good for the people being "shifted". Anyhow, the statement that we need to "shift the burden" lowers the people in question to mere commodity...and how does that help anyone?
As to your point about being called names for "calling the suburbs to task"...I guess I would say, "pot, this is the kettle, you're black". You might want to think about the manner in which you construct your arguments here and on other sites as they are perceived as anti-suburban, which is construed as counterproductive. We need comprehensive regional planning, not urban/suburban sniping and inflated egos.
Whether or not I agree with the criticisms of your writing is immaterial, but you do need to take into consideration the feedback you receive. You might find some truth in the counterarguments people typically launch in your direction.
Back to the topic at hand, if we want urban strip malls torn down and developers to build to an arbitrary standard of urbanism and mixed use, we need to set smart code guidelines and clean up the various zoning laws and deed restrictions. It's counterproductive to go project by project and scream from the sidelines as to what you want built. Arguing about whether or not the parking should be in the rear or front of a plaza that may or may not be torn down is a pointless battle, which sadly enough, represents about 90% of the "development discussion" on this and other local websites.
We need to argue for better development standards and enforce them. Developers will be happy to follow them once they are set...just as they are in every other city in America.
Not only does this thread demonstrate a fundamental misunderstanding of economic development, demographics, and market research, it demonstrates a stunning lack of understanding as of poverty and how it occurs and perpetuates.
Will Steel be organizing a "Ship The Poor People To The Suburbs 2007" effort? That'll get BRO some play in the community.
You can make the issue about me or you can make it about Buffalo and our urban problems in general in this country.
I would hope that solving WNY's problems don't depend on where I live. Do you want to have a real discussion or a phony one about where I currently reside. By the way, people in the city also pay taxes that go to supporting social problems so I guess they are expected to do double duty.
Like it or not, there is a real need for subsidized housing in this city, especially this city due to its lagging economy and aging population. I agree it would be nice to see these buildings converted into condos, so we could get some "quality" people in there, but come on...have a heart. Why waste a nice building on poor people, right? Maybe we could just ship them off to some place under the Thruway or the former Bethlehem Steel site.
Forget whole foods... TRADER JOE'S! (and they're cheaper!)
And yeah, mixed use urban friendly la la la whatever. I live a block away. I just want a place to buy my damn groceries without being financially violated at the corner stores or needing to take a bus there and back. Shoot, proximity to the grocery was half the reason I took my apartment!
Elmwood is empty (in a specific section) because of a greedy ignorant land barron who should be run out of town. I would love to see the energy that is between W.Ferry and Laffeyett spread down the whole avenue. I think Allentown can really do that.
Steel, don't be silly. Yes, IN THEORY, poverty should be evenly dispersed throughout the region and not ghettoized in one central location. BUT,in reality the poorest of the poor typically don't own cars and need to live somewhere quick walking and transit distance from social services and conveniences--in other words in the city core. Post-WW2 urban development has been almost all built for car commuting. People who can't drive are stranded in these environments.
Also, your use of the all-encompassing term "the suburbs" is rather dishonest. It's not one giant machine that all thinks and acts alike! Buffalo has a number of suburbs with quite a diversity of housing types and income levels. Yes, newer suburban areas like Clarence, Wheatfield, Orchard Park, and Lancaster are seeing primarily newer housing built for an upmarket crowd, but you should know among all people that new construction is almost always built for people with more money. Jane Jacobs even said "Today's new luxury housing is tomrrow's affordable place to live" or something along those lines. Weren't you the one in a post several months ago bemoaning newly built upscale condos in Chicago as being "the slums of tomorrow"?
Inner suburbs like Cheektowaga, West Seneca, Tonawanda and older parts of Amherst have matured and become affordable to wide swaths of the region's population. There is no conspiracy to keep poorer people out. If a working-class black family wants to buy an 80K house in Eggerstville, no one has a legal right to stop them, nor will anyone even try. And, despite what you might think, there is plenty of Section 8 and income restricted dwelling units in those aforementioned burbs.
I agree with Pundit and Geek, if we're all going to work together to pull this region back up, the divisive rhetoric needs to stop.
1. What makes anyone think a Trader Joe's or (extraordinarily expensive) Whole Foods would succeed where Latina's failed? Even Dash's is more upmarket and expensive than Latina's. Dash's, Whole Foods, and Trader Joes that I've visited have almost all been located in plazas. I can only think of one - the Trader Joe's in Brookline's Coolidge Corner - that had parking in the rear.
2. How the hell did this devolve into a discussion about the siting of subsidized housing? There is a need for low-income housing everywhere. That's why Amherst has a project on Sheridan across from AAA and why Clarence has several trailer parks and cheesy motels that do monthlies. (Is there such a thing as "section 8 housing? I thought Section 8 was a program where a private landlord signed a lease with the government agency and the tenant, and is guaranteed a certain rent subsidy every month through the program, and a certain sum from the tenant, depending on ability to pay.) Is there some evidence that Clarence landlords don't accept section 8 vouchers? How is this relevant?
3. Everyone's got great ideas about what should and shouldn't be sited at that location, but you're all playing with someone else's money.
These are national giants that work on the same economic network that largely sees Buffalo as being off the radar screen at this point in time.
You make it seem as if this economic network is deliberately biased against Buffalo in some way, when in actuality they ignore Buffalo because the socioeconomic demographics do not support national chains in the city. I know that the people here like to pretend that the city is wildly improving all around them and that's just great if you want to live in the self perpetuating bubble of Elmwood Village. However, the reality of the situaion is that when one factors in the West Side, and KCA...the overwhelming majority of people near downtown or Elmwood Village are dirt poor.
You think Trader Joes wants to open up on Elmwood to support the 3-5,000 people who live near it? Especially when 30,000 people of lesser means live just as close? BTW, they'd need to attract suburbanites to the store to make it worthwhile and those suburbanites will have to drive by three shopping malls and five shopping districts to get to the store. Get real.
If they do open up, they'll put it in "Amherst 14051" where the median income is 10 times what is found in the city and they'll have built in parking, convenient highway access, and retail mass.
Talking about business with you clowns is like teaching calculus to four year olds.
Maybe Steel can regal us with this plans to ship the po' folks out to Clarence. Simple question, why don't poor people live in the suburbs? Because it requires reliable automobiles, gas, and the means to support a sprawltastic lifestyle. Poor people live in urban areas because of density, convenience, tradition, family patterns, societal mores, and about a hundred other factors. But, it's easier to just make people who live in Clarence the boogeyman for the failures of our governmental leaders to build a regional transportation network, decent municipal housing, job training programs, etc. Fear mongering, suburb bashing, and hating the poor...the three core competencies of BRO.
Geek is absolutely right, these posts show there is a clear lack of understanding when it comes to economic development and marketing, myself included. I would like to hear from someone out there with some experience in marketing when it comes to this plaza's use or redevelopment.
Latina's is located in an area that is filled with cultural and economic diversity. Until someone steps up tot he plate to assure these people are provided the bare essentials, then what exactly do YOU propose is done with them? You want to complain, be sarcastic, make fun of those who have not, then come up with a solution instead of being so snarky. Then, you will have contributed something.
Yeah, we need to do something about panhandling since many use the money captured for drugs. But, to encapsulate everyone into a barrel is really very wrong. And, not just a city issue. Many with mental health needs were forced into the streets during the Reagan Administration. Now, they self-medicate. The root issue needs addressing instead of just poo-pooing the population.
Geek and Pundit,
You know very well that my point is that most people in the suburbs will not accept subsidized housing in their neighborhoods and consider the city as a repository for the poor. Remember Wheatfiled? They will then condemn the city for having poor people. The city should not be thought of as a dumping place for the poor. The wealthy suburbs need to start sharing the burden. There is no place in the suburbs that in anyway comes close to housing as many poor as Allentown. That is without even going into the east side mess. Why is so much subsidized housing in Buffalo? There are buses in Amherst, Kenmore, Cheektowaga. That is also where the jobs are. Why not allow these people the opportunity to live near these jobs?
STEEL, again, I like how you think. There's absolutely nothing wrong with Section 8 housing in the suburbs because poor people have just as much right to live in Williamsville as anywhere else. As per MRodgers' question, until someone steps up to the plate to assure these people are provided the bare essentials, then what exactly do I propose is done with them? They already have the bare essentials, so I would propose not "doing anything with them." They are people, not cattle. How about leaving them alone? How about not assuming they're criminals, or that they're panhandlers, simply because they're poor? How about not casually implying, or flat out stating, on a website that we're wasting beautiful architecture on poor people? If it is documented fact that the residents of these buildings are commiting crime, then perhaps the Management of these buildings could be contacted to find out about their screening techniques when they approve perspective tenants' applications. That would weed out the criminal element while ensuring that every Section 8 recipient is not labelled as an "undesireable."
...no one forces you to read anything I write. If or when I move to Buffalo I will be living in the city and so yes I will be living in proximity to the poor. I am not sure what that has to do with being liberal...
True, I typically skip over your comments; however you seem to spend a great deal of time sharing your liberal viewpoints with the readers here. You complain about the suburbs, the treatment of the poor, the vision and plans of local developers, and our local politicians; all from your pulpit in Chicago. Like I said, put your money where you mouth is, if you want to make a difference to the Western New York community, then do something other than sharing your incredibly narrow-minded and one-sided viewpoints on this and other blogs. You seem like a pretty astute and intelligent person; I am sure you could figure out how to make a go of it in WNY. Until then, you are just another out of towner trying to tell people in Buffalo how they should run things.
What are you doing for Buffalo? What is your contribution other than complaints of social injustices and pointing out architectural blunders?
If you want to do something for Buffalo, then do something IN Buffalo. Until then, please do not tell us what we need to do with our most affluent suburbs, we would be in a much worse state without them.
As someone who lives right across the street on North, I can tell you that Latinas is a dump. The only reason it didn't close earlier must have been b/c the owners were receiving tax breaks/free utilities or some other government support. The shelves were frequently barren - I can recall days where I walked in and there was no milk or eggs. Typically if you were shopping for an item, you had only one brand to chose from. The store appeared clean and the staff was friendly...but you could tell they were clearly the "B" or "C team" when compared to Wegmans or even Topps.
I knew the closing was imminent when I observed things like only 4 parking lot lights lit in the back (the other 10 simply not turned on to save power).
This is a tough plaza to attract development...based upon the publicly subsidized housing across the street. In truth though, that appears to be the only problem. The surrounding neighborhoods on all sides are filled with working professionals, especially western Allentown, which continues to grow as money is increasingly invested in areas like Arlington, Days Park and the countless side streets inside the Richmond, Allen, Elmwood and Ferry borders...and even beyond.
That's the problem with Allentown...an eclectic area of our city experiencing considerable growth and just waiting to explode...except for the federally subsidized housing spotted throughout (Stuyvesant, Allen St. at lower Mariner, North&Irving...to name a few) and Friends of the Night People. I'm certainly not arguing that those in need are less important than the potential for development...but a solution to this problem could pave the way to a booming neighborhood surpassing even Elmwood Village.
Just to clarify a few things and this will be my last word so as not to bore everyone here.
I have never used the term Clarence Pundit nor have I referenced anything about where he or you live. Nor have I made any disparaging remarks about either of you in any way.
I have never argued for forcibly moving anyone anywhere nor do I think anyone else on here has. Why are you injecting that idea into the argument? I have suggested that the suburbs need to create opportunities for the poor to live within their confines. Many suburban planning and zoning policy is set up to prevent lower income people form living in their towns. A large majority of the population and wealth of the region is suburban and yet an extreme majority of the poverty is in the city. Don't you see that as a problem? I do not know how that is interpreted as an insult to the suburbs. Are we not allowed to point out problems with the suburbs? Are they immune from criticism? If advocating for the idea that the suburbs need to take a more active role in solving the problem of poverty in the region is anti suburb then I don't know what to say.
BRO's mission is centered on the city for sure but you can not talk about the city without talking about the suburbs. Your interpretation of the BRO mission is too narrow. At least in my understanding.
exactly steel. there only are a few parts of the city that could be called "wealthy" such as north buffalo, elmwood village, & allentown. it makes no sense to warehouse those less fortuante in these parts of the city; particularly when there are so many other areas of town (and the suburbs) which need people. does nyc house the less fortunate on the upper east side? i always thought it was unfair to those in allentown to have friends of the night people and a majoirty of the sro's in their backyard. buffalo: everyone likes diversity and no one is suggesting that certain people must be kept out of any neighborhood, but, at the same time, there is nothing wrong with trying to encourage "wealthy" or "nice" neighborhoods. do people, including the current inhabitants of the stuy apartments, really have the "right" to live in the elmwood village? can't the "bare essentials" be provided elsewhere, for a lot less $?
I live in Allentown and although Latina's was not a regular stop, it was good in a pinch. Believe it or not, people would be more than willing to shell out the cash for a Trader Joe's or Whole Foods because people want quality healthy food. I pedal my way up to the Co-op for just those things; a variaty of bulk goods, locally grown produce and a quick meal. My Dream: Whole Foods moves in. People like myself bypass the drive to Wegams and shop there. The Elmwood parking lot buzzes and cute little shops move closer to reap the benefits. The back lot off North adds an outdoor cafe and eating area and on weekends in the summer, a farmers market could come in. OR Bulldoze the space and make a low (3 story tops) pedestrian mall, a la Arlington VA. Open, green space, with one or two anchor stores. Regardless, if something like this happens, I'll put my money wear my mouth is and shop there.
YooHoo! Over here! I have a job, own my own home, I am reasonably sane and I would like a nice healthy place to shop. I have money (opens wallet, sees various bills) and I really want to walk to store with alot of alternatives. I rarely go to Wegmans on Amherst because Gurieco's and the Co-op are closer (and better). I just think this space, Allentown and downtown Buffalo could really use something like Trader Joes or Whole Foods (sorry never seen a Dash's). Ok..this section 8 stuff is getting alittle old. I was hoping for some more dialog and ideas about this space. Jaysus Joey...what crawled up your butt and died?
John Martin,
Suburban Buffalo Makes up 2/3 of Erie County residents and about 7/10 of government in the county so yes the suburbs are in the driver's seat as far as transportation systems and infrastructure and where the poor live and they make darn certain that the poor are concentrated inside the city and stay there. We do not solve social problems in this country. We move away from them. How is it at all suburb bashing to ask that the wealthy suburbs take on some of the burden of housing the poor. Who said that this burden should be shouldered by the city only. Funny how you can never call the suburbs to task without getting called names.
Excop,
no one forces you to read anything I write. If or when I move to Buffalo I will be living in the city and so yes I will be living in proximity to the poor. I am not sure what that has to do with being liberal.
I think a Trader Joe's would be excellent for the area! (preferable to Whole Foods because of lower prices) although I imagine the foremost reason neither of these chains has yet settled in Buffalo is due to the dominating presence of Wegmans in the area.
I can't believe I just wasted my time scrolling through so many lengthy personal attacks. Please leave that to another venue...
Denizen, "To use a rather corny sports analogy, do you think a hockey team should put their star forwards on the 4th line just because we feel sorry for the more lackluster players and put them on the 1st and 2nd lines "hoping" they miraculously get better overnight?" Poor people are NOT equivalent to 4th line hockey players.
Geek,
Those are your words. You talk about shipping the people here or there. I talk about giving them opportunities. The suburbs have consistently shut the poor out. Christa was dead on with her comment. However so much of Buffalo is not diverse economically. Concentrating the poor in one place is not productive for anyone.
How do you and pundit give a pass? Are you kidding me? The only person you have responded to is me when I have criticisms of the suburbs while blatant anti city diatribes go unnoticed here and on your site.
hey, what r u going to do? at least the Hospital is staying. remember all the business in the area that would close if it moved? now that it's here to say, Elmwood (btwn Bryant & Utica) has never looked, er, better? how about another 'dollar' store?
A developer with vision could do something real special with this big chunk of land. This plaza needs to go. It needs to be replaced with mixed use high density buildings now!
As taxpayers who fund the federal subsidies given to landlords, we have a right to encourage politicians to de-subsidize housing if landlords are guilty of poor management and neglect. I think the level at which a building is maintained reflects the type of tenants that live there. Most tenants who receive Section 8 vouchers or other benefits are not panhandlers or lowlifes...they work hard in jobs many BRO users would never dare consider...and need assistance to provide for their families. These types of tenants do not have a negative impact on neighborhoods.
If we tighten regulations on landlords of subsidized housing in Allentown and encourage the improvements of conditions, I think it will reflect on who lives at those properties. This type of approach would be far less invasive, less expensive and would provide far less political fallout for politicians. Small measures can sometimes serve the same purpose as drastic proposals.
buffalo geek: i didn't go to ub so, unlike you, i guess i don't know much about eco develop. and, to you & aloha, i'm glad you like things the way they are at summer/north/elmwood and please don't forget to post what the (inevitable?) new dollar store has to offer...
Aloha says "Like it or not, there is a real need for subsidized housing in this city," The interesting part of this phrase is "...Iin the city" As opposed to in Amherst or Cheektowaga? Why is it just assumed that the city is the place that all poor people must live? I think it is Clarance's turn for some section 8 housing.
1. The plaza should be ripped down and something new built with parking in the rear rather than up front. The problem is that this costs loads of money.
2. Whoever wrote that TJs and WF won't come to Buffalo because of Wegmans is partly right. I've heard several rumors that TJ is coming to Maple in Amherst.
3. Section 8 and poor people discussion is wholly irrelevant and not worth discussing further. Save it for a thread about Section 8 and poor people.
WELL...all the Urbanites and ELMWOOD ELITISTS ,who preserve every standing building, are now talking about demo of this very plaza!! IMAGINE THAT! MOSTLY all ,said the hell with off street parking and wanted an environment where you could walk or take the bus. NOW you have it!! If you need groceries, walk your asses down to AMHERST ST. Wegmans' and do your food shopping there. BE CAREFUL what you wish for....
Hell, from what you've said, your resume merits more than the right to post on these threads, I say Geek for Mayor. . . or County Executive. . . or better yet, Governor.
Single-handedly relocating companies to Buffalo. Damn.
Love the idea of the market being down there!!
NBJOHN - I think Whole Foods closest are in Northeast Ohio, downstate and New England. Trader Joe's is the same thing. The biggest problem with attracting hew chains is Wegmans. They are a great operator and overall their pricing is good. Tops is on it's last leg around here and their future is uncertain. Once Tops is sold, maybe some other chains may be ineterested in our area.
Trader joe's or Whole Foods would survive because they don't suck like Latina's did. People would come from outside Buffalo for a Whole Foods or trader Joe's. That's nearly a gaurantee. WF is the one thing I miss since moving here two years ago. If Pittsburgh can support two, WF, then certainly we can support one. The area desperately needs a greater selection of organic and natural foods.
Besides, getting quality wholesome foods into the most at risk locales (where it's needed most) would most likely have a positive impact on the quality of life for everyone in the neighborhood. Did you ever see how an eight year old behaves after downing one of those foil topped plastic "juice" barrels they get at the corner stores? Might as well be freebasing PixySticks.
That space sat empty for several years before Latina's set up there. It's in one of Buffalo's niciest residental areas, between Allentown and Elmwood Villiage without any competition, and it still can't survive. This says volumes about where Buffalo is going. People, get real. It looks like half of Elmwood Ave is empty store fronts, you can forget about any of these other neighborhoods turning around. This town is a joke.
MRodgers... have you ever considered that many of those who refuse to take their medication do so out of choice? The same choice that empowers downtown workers who choose to park in front of your house rather than pay to park in a lot/garage. Do you suggest a Stalinist plan whereas only MRdogers or select "right" people dictate what people can or can not do?
Demographics is one the reasons the aforementioned section of Elmwood has a hard time retaining anything. Look at the stats for that part of Elmwood: fewer people with lower incomes since the last census. Just as you can't grow a royal palm in the Yukon, you can't expect a high end supermarket like Whole Foods or Trader Joes to move in an area that is high risk with few rewards... Whole Foods/Traders Joes is in the business of making money; they are not a charity. Wegmans keeps WF and TJ out of the Buffalo market.
Buffalo Geek and Buffalo Pundit posts are right on. Perhaps Geek and BP should be on comrade MRodgers committee to dictate what people can do within the city limits.
How about this BuffaloGeek serving himself as an expert on business matters like:
- economic development - demographic studies - market research
AND socioeconomic studies like:
- poverty research (how it occurs and how it's perpetuated)
Damn, this guy knows his stuff. What do you do again?
If you have that much knowledge, you should start your own blog and enlighten the rest of us fools on all these matters. Buffalo needs this wisdom.
It's ok, I shopped at Wegman's anyway. Latinas didn't die because they sucked, they just couldn't compete with the best super market in the country, that's all. Wegmans has put so many small places like Latinas out of business that they are starting to look like Walmart.
One comment about Section 8... I rent section 8 duplexes in Amherst and Kenmore, there is a waiting list for people who want their kids in the suburbs, they pay a premium on top of what the gov't pays just to get the house. I agree with Aloha and Steel that we need more Section 8 in the suburbs, these people are beggin' and bribin' to get out of the city.
" We don't solve problems, we move away from them."
Some of us just move further away...
You can make the issue about me or you can make it about Buffalo and our urban problems in general in this country.
I'll remember to quote that next time someone brings up "Clarence Pundit" or some similar inanity.
By the way, to you and Pundit. Yes I am highly pro city and I very vigorously promote the city. It is about time some one does promote the city. Thank God for BRO!
For what it's worth my blog became "Buffalo Pundit" about half a year before Buffalo Rising went online. In fact, I promoted Buffalo Rising many a time on my site, which is, incidentally, as pro-Buffalo as any site you can link to. So, I don't get the point here.
After 60 years of city destroying policies and constant city bashing by suburban residents we need as many people to advocate for the city as we can get. Funny that you guys (Pundit included ) call me to task for constructive criticism of the suburbs (which by the way you often end up agreeing with) but give a pass to blatant city negative prejudices by suburbanites.
I'd love a citation to where I've given a pass to anti-city prejudices held by suburbanites. What I have found, however, is that the proper answer to anti-city nonsense is not to go anti-suburb, but instead to emphasize the fact that we're all in this together and that the back and forth sniping is counterproductive. Because BR has made a conscious business decision to be hyperlocal and discuss things that are solely within Buffalo city limits, it is hypocritical for there to be any story - whether positive or negative - about the suburbs.
As a person who lives in the suburbs and commutes to the city, devotes time and effort into the betterment of the city and region, and someone who loves this region dearly as a newpat/immigrant, I can't fricking tolerate anti-suburb or anti-city sniping. If that's the state of discourse that people want to stoop to, that's swell, but gets very old, very fast.
I have never attacked anyone for having differing views. On the other hand make any suggestion the there is room for improvement in the suburbs and you get a tirade of insults.
Because Buffalo Rising is hyperlocal. Not hyperregional. Stick to your mission. Since nothing positive is ever written about what's doing in Buffalo's suburbs (which is a valid choice that BRO has made), the occasional insult or suggestion that poor people be relocated (forcibly, I presume) into "Amherst" and "Clarence" is twice as offensive as it already is.
Are the suburbs perfect? Is their no room for improvement?
Yup. Let the suburban blogs handle it. It's off the BRO map.
Should the city be the repository for all the region's poverty? I guess so since the good people of Williamsville paid their taxes they have done their duty. Like I said. We don't solve problems, we move away from them.
You walked into it right there with that last sentence. The city is not the "repository" for all the region's poverty, because that implies that someone placed them there with some sort of intent. As Geek points out, your position makes the suggestion that the real solution to crippling poverty and the crime and neglect that is associated with it is to merely cart people off to the suburbs so that they get their "fair share".
I tend to think the solution is to help the region to grow and thrive so that jobs and opportunities begin to sprout up in Buffalo _and_ her suburbs so that the poverty-stricken have an opportunity to get good work at a good wage. I think a solution would be for Buffalo's school system to be less distracted with personality clashes at its highest levels and instead use its vast resources and annual budget (soon to expand under Governor Spitzer) to ensure that every kid comes out of there ready to compete in a 21st century marketplace, and that more and more each year go on to college. I think a lot of the problems that the poorest areas suffer under are problems that can't be solved in a blog post or in a BRO thread, nor from a government program or judicial fiat. Many problems are those that need to be addressed from the grass roots. Everything else is a lot of talk, signifying nothing.
@BP - There's a Trader Joe's right off Union Square...no parking in the front there ;-)
How about just an address of some of your local economic development/site selection activities?
btw....Whole Food's would NEVER open there...and Trader Joe's? They just arrived in NYC...you think the Buf is next on thier hott list? Latina's space is huge...it would be more apropo to bring in a flea market, roller rink, or homless shelter...something fun
no offense to those that live there, but... The Stuyvesant project across the street is a real eye sore and a source of alot of problems (criminal & otherwise). Who would invest here in light of this? Maybe Pano's can use this as a parking lot and run shuttle buses back & forth...
A johnny-come-lately response to Buffalo Pundit and others who grouse that we're playing with other people's money. Nonsense. I expect that if Benderson is the next owner, they'll promptly start passing the hat at every local economic development agency on their speed dial. They are almost guaranteed to be playing with our money so we have every right to demand design or other concessions.
In Boston they have built low income housing complexes in the suburbs. At the end of one of the subway lines there are these three huge towers full of their equivalent of section 8 residents. They are not directly near any residential areas, more like three towers near some strip malls and not much else. In Boston there's one big difference, namely that the city is generally a desirable place to live so housing costs there are quite high. Here it just seems that everything would be more expensive out in Clarence or Amherst, from real estate to shopping and everything in between. If you want cheap housing here, the city already has tons of crappy buildings that have no one living in them; it makes sense to house the indigent in them. Allentown is probably one of the better neighborhoods with low-cost housing etc; it's much better imo to put them there than on the East Side for example where their situation would be far worse. It might not be so pleasant for some locals, but keep in mind there already is a higher crime rate, not many schoolkids, etc. It causes less trouble for the Allentown residents to house them there, than in the suburbs. Also the suburbs were built by people fleeing the problems of the city, and some of them are already in decline. A surge in destitute residents could cause further declines, something that doesn't seem to be happening in Allentown
The whole damn ugly plaza needs to be ripped down and replaced with a pedestrian-friendly shopping center where parking is well hidden. Some mixed-use would be nice, but I won't hold my breath.
For grocery stores, I think a DASH's would be perfect. They offer a healthy mix of upscale and ordinary items at a decent price within a smaller footprint than the typical bigbox. Their prepared foods (a big necessity for any contemporary food retailer that wants to survive) are top-notch.
Perhaps a small parking ramp would work well here, if hidden away from the street. This parking could alleviate serious parking problems with the late-night Allen St. bar scene, and provide spaces for the wonderful apartment buildings across the street to live up to their potential and get converted to condos instead of being wasted remaining as BMHA and Section 8 units.
Whatever happens, the stripmall needs to go.
Somebody in the neighborhood or government should recruit a Trader Joe's Grocery Store for the Latina's site. People will LOVE iT, and flock from all over the metro area to shop there. Good food, good values.
I've personally relocated two companies to Buffalo which employ a total of 41 white collar IT professionals. I've also been the lead on two data center site selection projects in the area, 22 across the country, and have served on various economic development panels in the past 12 years. Would you also like some references and a CV? Will that get me up to the standards necessary to post here at BRO?
Good lord...
For now, I think it would be cool to move the farmers market down to the parking lot there and bring in a lot more vendors.
How do you and pundit give a pass? Are you kidding me? The only person you have responded to is me when I have criticisms of the suburbs while blatant anti city diatribes go unnoticed here and on your site.
I don't reply to every dumb-ass comment on my site, nor do I respond to every dumb-ass comment I find here. In fact, I seldom reply to _any_comments on my site, because my opinion is generally contained in the original post. Any commenting I do is generally to clarify my opinion or respond to a direct question.
Anti-city diatribes take place all day, every day on here and on WBEN and even on my site in comments. I give a "pass" to people who defend President Bush, too; i.e., I generally don't respond and get into a tit-for-tat. That doesn't mean I implicitly endorse that view.
Comments on BRO that I perceive to be anti-suburb I will occasionally respond to when I catch them, particularly when they show up in the body of a post. Again, to further beat a dying horse, BRO does not do the suburbs. It does the city. I'm sure there are loads of people much more eloquent than ol' Clarence Pundit to defend the city, so I find no burning need to do it. But if someone delineates one's scope, and then violates it to spread negativity and negativity only, I find that very hard to stomach.
I think he was talking to me Geek,
By the way, to you and Pundit. Yes I am highly pro city and I very vigorously promote the city. It is about time some one does promote the city. Thank God for BRO! After 60 years of city destroying policies and constant city bashing by suburban residents we need as many people to advocate for the city as we can get. Funny that you guys (Pundit included ) call me to task for constructive criticism of the suburbs (which by the way you often end up agreeing with) but give a pass to blatant city negative prejudices by suburbanites. I have never attacked anyone for having differing views. On the other hand make any suggestion the there is room for improvement in the suburbs and you get a tirade of insults. Are the suburbs perfect? Is their no room for improvement? Should the city be the repository for all the region's poverty? I guess so since the good people of Williamsville paid their taxes they have done their duty. Like I said. We don't solve problems, we move away from them.
You think Trader Joes wants to open up on Elmwood to support the 3-5,000 people who live near it? Especially when 30,000 people of lesser means live just as close?
OK, first off, have you ever been to one? They're comparable in size to an Aldi's, maybe even smaller, and the prices are competitive with most normal grocery stores around here, maybe even a bit lower. Yes, many are in larger cities than Buffalo... but those cities may have two or three within city limits and then one in every suburb. They don't have the giant store business model of Whole Foods, they ARE the small neighborhood store. And even beyond that, shit, they have a ton in cities a lot smaller than Buffalo.
But then, why bother since it's Buffalo, and getting people to get off their asses and do anything besides complaining and giving excuses as to why it's easier not to try in the first place is like teaching calculus to four year olds, hm?
This blog is all over the map. The conversation is the closing of Latina’s Grocery Store but the topic has spun-off into Section 8 housing…
I recall Latina’s as a small grocery that catered to the Italian community located on Pine Avenue in Niagara Falls and was quite surprised when they began to branch out into the grocery market.
I applaud their efforts and mourn their closing because Tops and Wagmans dominate the western New York market. Perhaps if the locals had supported this inner city enterprise, Latina’s would have been able to keep their shelves stocked and would still be able to remain open.
I work in upstate New York and the only stores are Big M, IGA and P&C which are all different and usually half the floor space of a Tops or Wagmans. Some are nasty and some are quite nice; either way, it is all we have available.
The locals need to support their local, independent, grocery or all you will have is some [edited for content].
Where are the neareast Whole Foods or Trader Joe's? Would it make logistic/$$$ sense for them to locate one store here? I think not
Honestly I would love to see a "market in the square" type store, rather than a Aldi or Save a lot
I think someone ought to propose something really tacky for the site. One that will infuriate all..... the whatever they are .. Something that will provide a diversion from Bass Pro and 33 gates etc. etc. etc,
Needed- 1 developer who knows the LEED building standards that can reuse this site to build environmentally, sustainable mixed-use development. The site should be mostly self-sufficient and be a mix of residential, office and retail. Parking should be underground and all the rooftops green. All rainwater will be recaptured and reused onsite. Heating and cooling will be done with geo-thermal systems and solar incorporated as much as possible. 30 percent of the units will be affordable based on HUD standards for this region.
Now that would be reusing this site for the 21st century.
We need a Bells.. No wait Super Duper, wait Twin Fair - even better Super WalMart... Just kidding
we will never see a Whole Foods or Trader Joes in this area of the city unless like Bass Pro we pay them to come here. If that plaza and this area was desirable and profitable, Danny Wegman would of snapped that plaza up ages ago.
No, the Stuyvesant Apartments (if we are thinking of the same building) is a beautiful 1920s-era apartment building that appears to be in great shape. It is a damn shame that such a building is currently subsidized housing. Every time I see that "BMHA sign as I walk by, I cringe." The great building could certainly do much better.
Turning this into condos would be a no-brainer. The only problem (besides being run by BMHA) is that it lacks parking. That's why a parking structure across the street (well hidden of course), could be the catalyst to reivitalize this whole block.
not that I think there's a high likelihood of whole foods opening in buffalo, but the store has been in manhattan for 6 years. I think their first store was in chelsea on 7th avenue.
STEEL, you make a very good point. I have a friend that tried for years to get to the burbs and now she's there with her 13 year-old and is able to work at a better job since many are found along the Main/Transit area.
I am a resident of Allentown and a former supermarket industry employee. First and foremost, either thtat plaza needs to go or be completely overhauled (ridiculous potholes, filty parking lot, eyesore of a building). The Quality that was there was always dirty in my opinion and Latina's was just a step above.... there is a strange smell in there, almost like bad meat. The service definitely leaves something to be desired, so much that even in a pinch I contemplate running all the way to Wegmans or taking my chances at the Wilson Farms or Walgreen's.
As for a Whole Foods or Trader Joe's. I would love it, people are wiling to pay more for organics and those who are dedicated to an organic lifestyle would most likely make the trek even from the suburbs. I know plenty of suburbanites who shop at the Co-Op. I believe the current store may be a bit large for the Dash's concept, although I would welcome their market with open arms (great stores, hometown family.....).
Truthfully, that big plaza doesn't belong in a neighborhood like Allentown, especially on Elmwood. I would even vote in favor of tearing it down and making it a green space!!!
I think the next door one is what people are talking about. I was standing outside the laundry just a couple days ago looking at it... noticed broken windows on the upper floors. Lovely.
FYI-
Trader Joe's has interesting foods at fairly reasonable prices, however, I would say it's safe to say that a HUGE percentage of food sold there is NOT organic. You are much better off shopping at your local co-op, not to mention the fact that the $$ you spend will stay in the community rather than support yet another large chain with no connection to Buffalo.
There is a rear parking lot accessable from North Street that has an entrance to the grocer.
The Stuyvesant is a tremendously beautiful buildiing. I believe the issue that was mentioned regarding crime, etc. was from the neighboring apartment building once owned by the notorious Trusso (AFT Properties).
suzette-
I like that idea. I live near the Bidwell market, and I really like that it is on the grass and that you an grab a coffee, a paper and a seat outside Talking Leaves. However, it would be nice to see a bigger market that carries goods other than just food.
WholeFoods - several of us e-mailed them back when Quality Markets moved out.
Lets get a Dashes up in there... Thats a cool grocery store! Either way i hope a store comes in soon because not haveing one is just another reason for people to move into the suburbs. there are not many grocery choices with in the city.
SirBob, I do have a blog. In fact, I'm the proud owner of a local online media company. A quick google search of BuffaloGeek will point you in the right direction.
If you'd like to know my academic and real world credentials as they pertain to economic development, site selection, entrepreneurialism, non-profit management, sales, marketing, and urbanism; feel free to shoot me an email. However, I would imagine your question was snarky in nature and not intended to produce a real conversation.
BfloLuvr, News of Tops demise is greatly exaggerated, it will remain in this community for some time. It is still the number 1 supermarket (by market share) in the Buffalo market (although I think most would agree it is not the best supermarket). When one or two firms hold a market, other firms are not afraid to compete- they are enticed to compete. This because it is easier to develop a niche for themselves and build on it. Whole Foods and Trader Joe's will eventually find their way into the region because there is market share to take from a chain like Tops, and yes even Wegman's. I think the reason they have not arrived already is the logistics involved and the fear of over expansion.
Nice post digginit, very much agree. Also, this is prob the most posts I've ever seen on a topic here and really has any of it been remotely constructive or just back and forth sniping. vaild points on both sides (although this has evolved into abt 15 different topics) and like most things there are no easy answers, but have any of you ever heard of consensus or compromise? geez.
Aloha, no one is saying that...so don't jump to incorrect defensive conclusions as users so often do on this site. Subsidized housing is important and imperative to any city...but it is not a beacon that attracts commercial development to an area that badly needs it. Thriving cities are filled with areas where residents of all economic tiers co-exist. They just seem to do a better job of it.
Allentown is really making progress - and I want it to continue - but I'm just afraid that it will hit a ceiling, i.e. the bricks and mortar of federally subsidized housing. I'm not sure what the solution should be...but I don't moving anyone is an logical or moral solution.
friends: didn't mean to suggest that the building itself is bad but, a tremendous amount of annoying people emanate from there which compounds the problem of the mall/parking lot across the street.
I'm not making it about you, it was a salient point that was germane to the discussion. If you fail to see it that way, well, there's not much point continuing that particular course of discussion.
Why do I need to argue your strawman arguments? How and when do Pundit and I "give a pass" to suburbanites who bash the city? In fact, Pundit and I spend quite a bit of time advocating for sensible dialogue on regional issues and stay away from inflammatory rhetoric towards one or the other.
I rarely come here to comment because there is little in the way of productive discussion. Threads at BRO continually devolve into accusations, rhetoric, stereotypes, subtle racism, and most recently...rants about panhandlers. For some reason, I've allowed myself to get roped into this discussion and wasted a ton of valuable time.
What we need is less advocating on blogs and more doing. Especially if "advocating" means treating poor people like commodities and stating a need to ship them around Western New York like cattle.
If I hear the word "ELITIST" one more time, I'm gonna lose it, GOSH....
To engage in a more urban design/economic development oriented discussion and get away from the name calling and flimsy strawmen, I would encourage folks to continue the discussion HERE.
Anyways... Comrade Rodgers, your social conciseness is very admirable, but we must look at the whole picture. As someone pointed out, maintaining a basic social safety net is a fundamental cornerstone of a civilized society.
However, if Buffalo is to make an economic recovery, we must take core assets and bring out the most potential in them. To use a rather corny sports analogy, do you think a hockey team should put their star forwards on the 4th line just because we feel sorry for the more lackluster players and put them on the 1st and 2nd lines "hoping" they miraculously get better overnight?
Location-wise, Elmwood/Summer/North is in fact a great focal point for a redevelopment project. It's walking distance (important for ALL income groups to be able to comfortably access) to several key neighborhoods like Allentown, the EV, The Med. Campus, and Symphony Circle. "Cleaning up" the area, so to speak by breaking up the concentration of public-dependent housing, would turn government-subsidized property into productive tax-paying property and attract more wealth and commerce. Is this such a bad thing??
People being "displaced" is a non-issue in Buffalo, considering there is no shortage of cheap, "affordable" places within the city and region. We must accept the simple fact that beggars can't be choosers. With that said, a little Gentrification would be great for Buffalo.
"Neighborhoods are about what you can access with your feet, not your car." - I agree, and think you said it very well.
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