Graffiti artists don't care about what anybody thinks, except other graffiti artists. Arrest/fine all you want, it won't go away because it is so easy to do and has so much impact.
Lunetta's PPT likely says nothing about styles, but rather formats. The only people who understand style in graffiti are those who practice it and can understand the nuances.
I don't really get this article. It seems like a summary of the posts from a while back when this all came up during the one sentencing.
Destruction of property is destruction of property, regardless of someone's opinions on its asthetics. Any violators should be hit with full remedation costs or material costs and labor on first offense. Second offense: the former plus jail time.
There are a few very prolific taggers. Several properties I own have been hit. It is a real pain. I don't understand how a few particular scumbucket taggers, whose tags are all over, cannot be identified and apprehended. Surely the police must know (or could find out with a little investigative work) who 'HERT' and 'ATAK' are. I, for one, would not shed a tear if either of these delinquents fell from a ten story window. They cost thousands upon thousands in damage each year.
The quicker one paints over the tag, the longer it seems to take in lag time before the next tag. Apparently taggers don't like their hard work to get painted over the next day. Keeping any grafitti up just encourages the vermin. It makes the endeavor seem legitimate to them, I guess.
The most vile of the scum don't use paint. They use acid which ruins plate glass to post their tags. It cannot be erased; it actually etches the glass. This has happened on several buildings downtown (old BK at Main/Huron & old McD's across the street--new facade and all).
cash-OK, second dumbest thing ever written on BRO. We're not talking abt Keith Herring here fool! Nt sure if Ive ever seen graf in Bflo going beyond a "tag" either. Also, most of this lame ass graffiti popping up in the city is on highly public places. Not cool. You might want to get another art history book besides the one your mommy got you from Walmart.
Did anyone catch this in the news today:
" Commercial Pipe & Supply Corp. at 1920 Elmwood Ave. was vandalized sometime between noon Saturday and 10 a.m. Sunday.... Damage in that incident was estimated at about $4,000.
Police said the business was damaged again sometime between 5 p.m. June 13 and 8 a.m. June 15 when someone spray-painted graffiti on several areas of the building. That graffiti caused about $55,000 in damages, police reported."
http://www.buffalonews.com/258/story/106972.html
This business owner is out almost $60,000 dollars, I find that to be complete bullsh*t. No one should ever have to go through that! I don't buy the 'but he's insured' excuse, because it is still going to cost him in the end. I don't know about this business owner, but if I had to go through this on 2 occasions in 2 weeks, I would probably look to either protect my business or move it to a safer location.
Graffiti is not new so care to elaborate on what valuable concepts have emerged from it? And what exactly is this potential you speak of? You write as if this is some novel art form. You seem extremely knowledgeable on this topic, care to define art for me?
Digginit - The quick answer to time for SPADE, METH, and ATAK, is "NOT ENOUGH!"
These maggots are absolutely worthless as citizens and human beings, they give art a bad name. I don't care what excuses these little p@#$% use to explain themselves, they are not artists, they are not revolutionaries. They are insecure and frustrated little pussbags who can't make a name for themselves any other way.
I would love to remove the tags along the Kensington and downtown, especially those seen by visitors. It sickens me to see think that ultimately we, the citizens, will have to pay for the removal of this vandalism.
Al-
Lt.Lunetta said that most of the graffitists are close to adulthood, but that the younger kids commonly steal paint from stores or their parents. And the best tip-off for an officer is a kid with a backpack when school is out of session.
As for the actual tagging, some of the vandals use a fire extinguisher filled with paint. That accounts for those especially large, especially ugly tags that are made up of thin spidery lines. I feel bad for the business owners who are told they have to get rid of the tags the next day because they're looked at as a way for gangs to mark their turf and send messages to each other. Lunetta is itching to nab these people, and says he knows who a few are; it's a matter of catching them in the act or with insurmountable evidence. Remember, they don't use their real names.
And the craziest thing I found on this graffiti tour was a stenciled painting of a prominent news station personality with his name next to it. A perfectly cut stencil that looked like a silkscreened print including texture in the moustache.
Some of our finer citizens...
Eric P. Osborne, 23 of LIMA (Kirkwood), NY was sentenced to 5 years probation, paid a $360.00 fine and supposedly spent 40 hours removing graffiti. He was a landscaper and college student in Rochester when he was caught spray painting "METH" around our city. He would like to "move on and put this whole thing behind him", fair enough except that there are over 100 buildings "left behind" with his tag.
Want to see how remorseful he is? Here is a quote that he posted to "Lounge 37" as nevergonnacatch_me... yea....not fun man...not fun. i got off with a 90day sentence, that I am not done serving. 5 years of felony probation, and community service and about a grand in fines. Bullshit for real.......Buffalo is a fucking joke....but for a 4 year run...90days...eh...hahaha i still have more then a throw or tag for each day of that ammount of time running in that city.Fuck it GOONS/GQ for life.But yea, def got fucked hard. The city of buffalo was trying to set a harsh example because of the ammount of graffiti that is in the city. Bigger named writters are just ruthless, and I fucking love it. BUMPS TO ATAK nsf/bf, HERT/bf, LIONS/nsf/bf, REK GOONS/gq,TRON GOONS/gq and the rest of my GOONS boys...keep shit real.
Christopher A. Fargo, 24 formerly of Dewitt St, Buffalo received probation for tagging "Zen" on the Ferguson Electric building. His tags are seen on some of the highest profile and most visible buildings downtown.
Derek Thurlow, 31, tagged "Merk" all over the city. He was fined $1,250 and 150 hours community service when he was finally caught in 200.
Fernando Godinez,27, was fined $1,250 and 150 hours community service for painting "Lions". To his credit, he assisted with the colorful children's mural on the side of the Gloria J. Parks Center. Such a nice kid from Amherst.
Mark A. Buffington, 33, admitted defacing the Gates Circle fountain. Where is he now?
graffiti, is graffiti, is graffiti. its never going to go away and it will always be a pain in the ars.
however, i saw this movie a few years ago called Style Wars. made me appreciate the "artistic" value of graffiti.
i secretly wish we saw more of this too -
www.banksy.co.uk
they should designate Graffiti walls around the city where one could paint whatever they wanted and not have to worry about damaging property. it will not be a 100 percent effective but im sure it will decrease the numbers.
Elena,
I dont envey anyone with the responsibilty to try to prevent or control graffiti anywhere (did u know it was found in roman pompeii?).
but we've all heard of the "broken window effect", and we should all work to maintain its common sense principles. hey, even if you think the theory is bunk, at least it will help make the city look nice. to that end, we need more foot patrols to discourage illegal behavior, we need more code enforcement officers to get property owners to keep on top of litter, etc, and make possession of any graffiti tools a felony.
im a liberal, i swear :)
-al
ps. i have seen that stencil of a local news personality. if i didnt hate graffiti so much, i would think it was pretty damn funny. shhh. dont tell.
The difference between graffiti and art is permission. It's and uphill battle trying to impress this upon kids, especially when some really popular video games involve "tagging".(I know, there goes the old guy blaming video games, maybe rock n' roll has a hand in it too) The interesting thing about graffiti is that it is not just an urban crime, I've seen it in Williamsville and Clarence as well.
im not even sure why a kid can buy a can of paint, paint marker, or labels if theyre under 18. id bet they arent touching up lawn furniture.
an outright ban on sales to minors seems like it makes sense to me. i mean i cant even buy sudafed without ending up on some database. hell, maybe we should do the same for adults with krylon.*
for that matter, lets get on property owners too. the rail road viaduct over delaware is never touched up! it draws the eye and sends a bad message. get on it, CSX!
to be fair, we should give property owners a tax deduction on materials to remediate vandalism - up to a set amount annually. i dont know, say $100 for every 100k in property value?
also, other cities provide info on how to prevent or clean up after some idiot tags a place. we need good "how to" info like that on the city's site!
sorry about the rant.
*just an example - please dont sue me, krylon!
I am pretty sure that for METH his sentence it is now considered a felony conviction...which will knock the little jerk out the running for numerous jobs down the line. Good. Think Buffalo is a JOKE? Try getting a job after spending four years getting a degree...now THAT is a JOKE hahahaha... I wonder how proud your parents are of you "METH"? Must be a FANTASTIC christmas at your parents house.... Does the conversation go like this: "Oh, and this is our little Eric, he is now a convicted felon....yep we are really proud of him." lol
urbanesque - thanks for the update on all of the loser vandals! Much appreciated!
I think it is hysterical that these jerks all call themselves "graffiti ARTISTS". Since when did scribbling a made up name all over other people's property become art? I must have missed that in my Art History class back in college.
These slideshows are painful to watch. The zooming in and out on every slide is pointless unless you are trying to focus our attention on a part of the image! 4 minutes and 38 seconds of this crap? A slide of a Pabst Blue Ribbon can?? Move over New York Times.
Keep up the good work BRO! Hows the war on graffitti going?
This is a terrible article.... graffiti is an eyesore and an expensive problem when applied to businesses and residences. Why would you post it as a positive or as some sort of "civil war"? Maybe suggestions to prevent it would be a better use of your literative skill, like the idea of a designated space for taggers. Or support for homeowners and businesses to remove it, like volunteer organizations that would go around to businesses and help remove it. It is an invasion of privacy.
My house, along with almost every house on Gill Alley was recently vandalized. And there is nothing artistic about it. It's black marker scribble. Makes me almost second guess my choice to buy a house in the city.
Prosecute vandals. Graffiti on vacant buildings and properties CAN be beautiful sometimes, but most often it is amature and ugly, many times gang related.
Keep reporting it to the police (take pictures) and clean up the graffiti on your property when it occurrs.
What about a web site where victims could post pics of the graffiti and when/where it occurred? Not as an art project, but as evidence against the taggers...
So you don't agree with jail? Thats your opinion then. I guess I don't always agree that jail is the best reform method for people - it's more of a deterrent in my mind. But it's the law.
Fines and community service should be enough. Make them wear orange and work on a chain gang removing graffiti.
Wow... what a great way to discourage taggers! Showcase their work with a pretty slideshow and background music. I'm sure since you put "HUGE DISCLAIMER" under it, though, they would see it as being critical of their actions, regardless that the word "art" is then used repeatedly after it.
Speaking of Graffiti - does anyone remember how much time "METH" got? Same for "SPADE"? Graffiti is extremely expensive to property and business owners and I think each of these little vandals deserved whatever time they were sentenced to.
On the flip side, there is a girl that does some great cartoon pencil drawings of people on paper, then sticks them to something. They wash away with the rain and snow. Not that I condon sticking a drawing to someone's building, but her stuff is magnificent! Truly art...anyone know who she is? I haven't seen her stuff for a while.
I had no idea that these guys were so old, I expected 16 - 19 year old high-school students.
The judges in this area and society help perpetuate this type of behavior. All that kid ended up doing is 90 days, what a joke! The paper made it sound like "that's it, the system is putting their foot down". Probably because before they ended up getting only probation. How bout this..have police officers visit schools when kids are very young....let them talk about graffitti and other types of crime and the potential punishment that it can bring...there they have been warned! Then if they commit those crimes, throw the book at them, and force them to not only serve a lengthy sentence, but also to clean up graffiti, along with their parents. That's right bring the parents into it, let them reap it too! Maybe then they will bring the hammer down on their kids for embarassing them.
First off. Most people write on piece of shit abandoned buildings, not like the middle of deleware park or something like that. and also, would it be okay if i just printed off a thousand sheets of paper and went and posted them around the city with my graffiti tag on it? i mean, that way i could be littering too, but it would only be considered as advertising or propoganda, SIMCOE, your simply a close minded [deleted] get a life. id be interested in how old you are too if you care to elaborate.
Graffiti is self expression, I'm not sure what all you, eh maybe 20-35 year old adults do for self expression but not everyone be brought up sucking mommys nipple untill their your age. There is history and stories behind graffiti, take a look at it, venture into it before you just bash it. I highly doubt half of these estimates for property damage are correct seeing as most of the time a simple power wash or buff can remove graffiti. spc.
A couple things here - one I think its hilarious theres actually people on this thread calling for jail time for this.... ok, well you have to pay for that through tax dollars. So theres that. Not to mention its not like jail actually reforms anyone. You are just throwing non-violent offenders into a deeply fucked up system.
Yeah a guy gets convicted of a felony for tagging buildings.. then he comes out of jail, maybe he wont bother with the paint anymore, but instead he'll be sticking a gun in your face demanding your wallet or car. What type of job is anyone going to get with a felony conviction? Why should someone spend the rest of their life working shit jobs?
Also anyone claiming $60k dollars damage from SPRAYPAINT, Im calling BULLSHIT on that. And I would right to their face. A sandblaster and a couple minutes takes it right off. Its an expense of both time and money sure, but $60k is ridiculously inflated figure.
I think this article is informative and pertinent. Only someone in favor of graffiti would think otherwise. MJ-Do you read about any subject more than once? Please send the links to the posts you mention because I can't find them.
And I think the civil war reference is to the fight between the police/homeowners and the vandals.
I see tags up and down Hertel, Delaware and Elmwood. Oh that's right... I never see a tag on the Police station on Delaware and Tioga (AKA Tim Horton's).... ATAK, HERT and a new one DDx have cost business owners and tax payers thousands - Ridiculous Also.. How come we never see tags in the suburbs?????
Isn't there an actual Police Station on Hertel and Elmwood?
Fine and commmunity service would be much more acceptable than jail time, matter of fact just garnish their wages too; theres got to be a way make that work. You want to teach these little fuck ups a lesson, make em pay for the next 10-15 years. Business/homeowner wins and so does the tax payer.
aka mouse... its funny i said the same thing, even when professionally done I don't think it would cost half as much to paint the entire Commercial supply pipe building.
About a year/year and a half ago I was working in a five story hotel where the entire building was painted for $25,000 by a professional company.. and the news says "$60k" to remove the graffitti... thats funny
simcoe, you see to be somewhat closeminded about graffiti and tagging.
I'm not a graffiti artist but it is very easy to recognize that many valuable concepts have emerged out of informal and sometimes socially unacceptable behavior. It doesn't matter what simcoe thinks is not cool. Future innovations will come out of unexpected places. I'd rather be one the people that recognized the potential(or coolness) where others saw nothing. We should be worried if we are living in a city without this kind of behavior.
HelenGood, search BRO for Harvey Garrett. You'll find all you need to know about previous posts about graffiti.
Maybe we should cane them like Singapore did to that american punk vandal a while back.
simcoe,
I'm no expert on graffiti and I don't need to educate you about your own culture. I see an influence of graffiti most cleary in graphic design, contemporary art and marketing. I also see that graffiti has changed the way our culture addresses public spaces. Do some research.
urbanesque, go eat a dick. you have no understanding of what graffiti is about. and it really should not be illegal, its advertisement, what about these billboards people dont give two shits about drivin past on the highway? and besides who gives a shit about all of the old abandoned buildings? noone will ever be able to stop graffiti, it might get buffed, but it'll show up again trust me. if it were up to me, elmwood would be littered, that stuck up yuppy ass road needs a little bit of "street". besides, why would you stop bf? they're too good at what they do, they are fearless and that type of recklessness brings about hope to new upcoming graffiti artists. before you know it, new generations of artists are going to come in to buffalo and do work and take over all the atak, merk, sler, lions, wore, and herts. if you actually tried to come up with a design for a tag name and drew it out and tried to make something atak worthy, then come and try and talk. people like urbanesque and simcoe are just straight up ignorant pieces of shit that bear no impact on the ideas and opinions of true street artists.
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