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  1. KernwatchMN

    2 ratings12345
    Aug 26th 2007, 20:38

    Unfortunately the auction raises some serious concerns. Over a third of the houses are assessed at $10,000 or less & are on devastated streets.

    These rundown minimally assessed houses already owned by the city are those that would likely be demolition-worthy in a city proposing to spend $100 million over five years to demolish 5,000 surplus buildings.

    Many of the houses are on the very streets (especially the 6 houses assessed from $5K to $15.9K on devastated Koons St) that would be landbanked if the city has a comprehensive plan. Has landbanking been considered?

    And the small auction, likely to draw few buyers, is being held a month prior to the much larger In-rem (tax) auction in mid-October, normally held in the Convention Center.

    Currently there are 4,055 properties up for city tax auction, making it possible that it might last three days as it did last year. Having the two auctions scheduled back-to-back on the same days would likely draw many more bidders.

    R. Kern

  2. Genghis

    2 ratings12345
    Aug 28th 2007, 09:15

    Two quotes from Rebecca: "288 Hudson is an awesome house" and "The house needs a lot of work - probably all new plumping and electrical. It's absoutely full of trash - really full. The trash is so high throughout that it covers the couches."

    So I have a question for you: Do you 1) own or have another financial stake in this house 2) have friends who do, or 3) really think that with all the housing on the market in this city that anyone in their right mind would want this piece of crap of a house?

  3. magnum

    2 ratings12345
    Aug 28th 2007, 09:12

    I've been to these auctions, I can't tell you how many properties started the bidding at 5,000+ dollars and no one bids. Then we wait a year to repeat the same scenario at the next auction. IF THERE ARE NO BIDDERS AT $5,000, WHY DON"T THEY LOWER THE PRICE UNTIL THEY GET ONE ??? Since the city can't provide rehab dollars, they certainly can sell more properties for $1.00. It will solve the vacany problem, and get them on the tax rolls. In the past, there was the issue of flipping, I think there are controls in place that prevent this now.

  4. rickyrick

    2 ratings12345
    Aug 27th 2007, 04:12

    The property in these photos look like they came from Detroit or New Orleans. Ewwww. Who would want them?

  5. Rebecca

    0 ratings12345
    Aug 28th 2007, 22:24

    I can't buy the Hudson house because I'm buying another house and I can't buy two. I thought the house was so amazing I was convinced that these two other buyers would want it as well. I was wrong. I was only going to do the landlord thing if I could get people I knew living there and I wouldn't be able to have it done in time for their move in dates. I don't even know why I feel the need to defend myself.

    I don't have a stake in the house - I have a stake in Buffalo. I really loved the house and I'm still sad I couldn't buy it. I don't want to see the house destroyed and I did spend $500 on an inspection and I feel like if I can keep it from getting demolished, it won't have been for nothing.

    The Hudson house has a lot of great things going for it and you'd be hard pressed to find that much house for the money and have it pay it's own mortgage. Each house has it's own character. You can talk all you want about the housing stock in Buffalo but I looked at dozens and dozens of properties and there were only two I would have considered buying - 288 Hudson is one of them.

    This is an up and coming neighborhood - not a lot of people people want to purchase property on the East side or west of Grant St.

    I don't understand what people are saying about making vacant housing elsewhere. This is a college town - lots of students want to rent. My tenants were going to be UB professional/grad students leaving the horribleness that is on campus living. After one year on campus, lots of people want to move to Allen/Elmwood. This is a block from Allen.

    If students had the opportunity to live somewhere besides the campus and "SUNY Amherst", they might not leave the second they graduate.

  6. AtwaterLouse

    0 ratings12345
    Aug 28th 2007, 12:13

    Since the city can't provide rehab dollars, they certainly can sell more properties for $1.00. It will solve the vacancy problem, and get them on the tax rolls.

    I don't necessarily object to what magnum suggests about lowering the price, but how in the world will that solve the vacancy problem?

    Even if the city gave away these houses for free, or even paid people to take ownership (i.e. AM&A's building), it's a huge leap to think that most of these auctioned houses would actually get rehabbed, occupied, and back on the tax rolls.

    Yes it's always a nice feel-good anecdote in rare cases when a vacant old house is rehabbed and actually occupied again, but there's many thousands of vacant houses in Buffalo, and more becoming vacant every week, because Buffalo no longer has enough population to fill all of the houses standing here.

    That's the thing about residential real estate - it requires a sufficient customer base of residents to make it work.

    Rebecca's first paragraph says she didn't buy the awesome 288 Hudson house because she couldn't afford a hypothetical bidding war which never ended up happening, and then her last paragraph says she doesn't have the financial means to buy it.

    This is not in any way mean as a criticism of Rebecca, but that reality check points out the purchase price is a relatively small part of the picture compared to costs and efforts of massive rehab, finding a continuing stream of responsible qualified tenants to provide that "serious rent" she speaks of, longer term work for maintenance repairs and landlording, and accepting very slow growth equity values in a shrinking city.

    I'm not saying that particular house can't be saved with a lot of heroics and financial risk taking - no doubt it could. And I'm not saving it shouldn't be saved if somebody wants to. That kind of house is great to have around here.

    However, people should not claim these kinds of rehabs will address Buffalo's severe vacant house problem in any meaningful way. Whoever eventually occupies the three units of 288 Hudson is very likely to result in the ripple effect of creating vacant units elsewhere within Buffalo. Maybe that's a net positive if the quality of occupied housing stock climbs, but it does not reduce the vacancy problem - just shifts residents into a formerly vacant house while creating other vacancies here.

  7. Sal

    0 ratings12345
    Aug 27th 2007, 08:53

    Thanks WCP for this article. I'll be at the auction, hopefully not alone.

  8. Rebecca

    0 ratings12345
    Aug 27th 2007, 11:54

    288 Hudson is an awesome house. I've been in it several times and even had an inspection done if anyone is interested. I also have tons of pictures of the inside. My husband and I came so close to buying it but then we heard others were interested and we pulled out because we couldn't afford a bidding war. Sadly, no one purchase the house.

    The house is listed as two units but has been divided into three and with some mechanical updates, could probably be a legal three unit. The ground floor is divided into two 2-bedroom apartments with cute ktichens, salvagable cabinets, etc. The second and third floor are one unit. Right nowthe upstairs is 3 or 4 bedrooms with another on the third floor. The rest of the third floor is finished and open with beautiful hardwood floors and a view of downtown. It's so big, it's almost like a ballroom. The basement has really high ceilings and even a fruit cellar.

    The house needs a lot of work - probably all new plumping and electrical. It's absoutely full of trash - really full. The trash is so high throughout that it covers the couches. Little paths have been carved out to walk around. The trash is almost completely newspapers - so it's not gross rotting garbage, just paper trash.

    There's also a lot of furniture, etc. Some good stuff, definitely.

    If anyone wants to see pictures of the inside or the inspection report, let me know. If I had the financial means, I would buy 288 Hudson in a heartbeat. The neighborhood is awesome and you could get some serious rent there now and even more in a few years. You could borrow all the money to fix the house and renting the bottom two units would pay your mortgage and you could live on the second and third floor and feel like you're in you're own entire house.

  9. WCPerspective

    0 ratings12345
    Aug 26th 2007, 22:54

    Thanks Steel, I added a link to the Hudson post in the test.

  10. AtwaterLouse

    0 ratings12345
    Aug 28th 2007, 19:41

    Magnum, I agree you make a reasonable point that my statement was a generalization and I should've worded it more as such.

    It's anyone's guess whether all 3 units of that Hudson house for example would be filled by tenants from the burbs, but it does sound far-fetched to me that none of those 3 units would be filled by a current city dweller, thus creating a vacancy. Far-fetched, but I acknowledge not impossible.

    I stand behind my point in the big picture though. The number of people wanting to move into Buffalo city limits who haven't already done so (when there's already so many good affordable houses and apartments here) is, as you point out not zero, but still is clearly much smaller than the number of vacant houses.

    Rehabbing old houses has many benefits and I'm all for it - but realistically it won't make a big impact to the problem of so many 1000s of vacant dangerous blighted houses here that nobody wants to reside in. For that severe problem, the city's announced focus on demolitions is long overdue.

  11. magnum

    0 ratings12345
    Aug 28th 2007, 15:08

    Maybe a Pre-Demolition Auction BUT with strings are attached. i.e. 1) Bidder must show they have the means to do the rehab. 2) Bidder must begin work in such amount of time. 3) Bidder will pay x amount of dollars if job is not completed. As a property investor and rehabber myself, I can do a lot with a $5,000 discount. I will not buy a house for $5,000 that I see needs 40,000 of work when current properties sell in the neighborhood for $50,000. No room for error. Bottom line, from my experiences, the open bid is not good for investors. If the city tried catering to investors (Instead of Homesteaders), some of these homes could be saved instead of demolished. Have they tried this yet???? Ans. NO

    AtwaterLouse, you assumption that rehabbing one house will create a vacancy elsewhere is not true. There are people from the burbs looking to live Downtown and I don't think we'll be seeing boarded up houses in Amherst anytime soon. Also, there are people 30+ miles away looking to live in the city. If anything, Rehabbing the last nasty house on the street forces landlords to make updates to keep tenants form moving to the new house. The whole street benefits. Not just for this reason, homeowners are more willing to update their own house when they see other people investing(updating) in their neighborhood. Trust me, I've seen it happen.

  12. AtwaterLouse

    0 ratings12345
    Aug 29th 2007, 16:22

    Rebecca, as my comment said nothing I wrote was meant to criticize you so no need to defend based on anything I wrote... but maybe you were referring to someone else. Regarding the Hudson St house, it certainly sounds as if it's possible somebody will want to save it and that would be great if it succeeds.

    I don't understand what people are saying about making vacant housing elsewhere. This is a college town - lots of students want to rent. My tenants were going to be UB professional/grad students leaving the horribleness that is on campus living. After one year on campus, lots of people want to move to Allen/Elmwood. This is a block from Allen. If students had the opportunity to live somewhere besides the campus and "SUNY Amherst", they might not leave the second they graduate.

    How is it that opportunity is not already there? Seems to me most students who want to live in Allentown or Elmwood, etc. already do so. What would be holding them back? Certainly not lack of available apts for rent. I agree that if a greater number of college students decide to live in the city that would help. But in many cases students want cheaper rents than would be needed by a landlord to pay off costs of renovating and maintaining a house like that. Also, from people I know, on-campus and near-campus residential is very popular. Not everybody is as much of a city lover as BRO readers are.

    Simply put, the reason I think adding new residential units will usually vacate housing elsewhere is it seems to me there's a surplus of nice apts for rent in Buffalo. More available nice places than qualified tenants seeking to rent them. I'm basing that on observations and anecdotes, so maybe I'm wrong and maybe there are more people who want to move from the burbs than there are currently available apts in the city - but my perception is that it's the other way around. And if I'm right, then each new unit results in some other unit remaining vacant longer. That's not 100% bad, but my only point was that it doesn't help the vacancy problem either as was claimed. But hey maybe the Hudson house is so great it would attract people currently in burbs who otherwise wouldn't move to the city. I wonder if the students you planned to rent to end up moving to other apts in the city. If so, that's consistent with my point since if they had moved to yours then the ones they did move to would've stayed vacant longer. If they stayed in Amherst it helps make your point.

    Anyhow good luck with the house you are buying.

  13. benfranklin

    0 ratings12345
    Aug 28th 2007, 21:07

    What's the best way to find out who owns the corner property next to 204 High? Without it, I'm not sure how you justify the investment (in 204). As a package, you could do something worthwhile, with a view of the Medical campus.

  14. STEEL

    0 ratings12345
    Aug 26th 2007, 22:18

    BRO Also highlighted 288 Hudson Which has an interesting history and reportedly very beautiful interior detailing.

    See it here: http://buffalorising.com/story/own_a_piece_of_history

  15. Rebecca

    0 ratings12345
    Aug 28th 2007, 22:27

    P.S. Genghis - how could I or anyone I know own a house on the city auction list? THE CITY OWNS IT!

  16. Andrew

    0 ratings12345
    Aug 28th 2007, 10:49

    269 Pennsylvania looks like a gem waiting to be polished!

  17. Ton

    0 ratings12345
    Sep 1st 2007, 15:39

    Rebecca, By chance I happened to see that house this past thursday (outside only) and am interested in knowing more about it. My son lives in buffalo and is looking for something to buy. I'm the financing. (lol) . If you can, drop me a line at tcapo@nycap.rr.com, or call me at 518-641-9024. Appreciate it. Tony