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  1. davvid

    1 ratings12345
    Sep 10th 2007, 09:49

    I agree that the architect and the design could have been alot better. But that would not have come out of a more public and transparent selection process. These kinds of decisions should be made by an informed few. Toshiko Mori wasn't chosen by the public to design the Martin House Visitors' Center. She was chosen by an expert panel from a short list of invited firms that competed for the project.

    If we would have had a similar process for the B-P building--i think we would have found a better architect with better ideas.

    These kinds of competitions are also more effective at marketing a new cultural attraction. A design competition could be conducted in cooperation with magazine editors or architecture critics. This kind of process immediately makes the building more culturally relevant.

    In today's NY Times there is a large article about the Barnes Museum in Philidelphia and their decision to hire architects Todd Williams and Billie Tsien. This doesn't just ensure a good building but it means publicity and cultural relevance.

  2. EricOak

    1 ratings12345
    Sep 9th 2007, 22:46

    "Not bad" seems to be what people here want to accept, and places like the B-P seem happy to oblige this tolerance for the mediocre. It's not the street-shunning, bleak exterior of this design that's most dismaying; it's the way it was handled. We may or may not have had a more enlightened design, but we could have had a fair and proper airing. But it was Old Buffalo all the way with this one, and that's not easy for me to say.

  3. hamp

    1 ratings12345
    Sep 9th 2007, 21:13

    Did we really have to have a design that is "not bad". Here was a project with lots of money, a great site, and great art. Unfortunately there was no vision, and no leadership. From the client or the architect. I think a great modern building would have been great here. The new art museum at Washington University in St. Louis (where I studied) is just as bad as BP (if not worse). It totally ignores the existing urban context, and turns its back on the community.

  4. davvid

    1 ratings12345
    Sep 9th 2007, 20:43

    The new B-P will probably not get published in any Design magazines, text books or the NY Times. Still, the design is not bad. I'm glad that its modern at least.

  5. hamp

    1 ratings12345
    Sep 10th 2007, 12:15

    I have no idea how the BP architects were selected. Their website lists other projects for the State University of New York, including the Fine Arts Center at UB. These guys most likely have strong political connections in Albany. And that's why they were chosen. Not because they were the best.

  6. 300miles

    1 ratings12345
    Sep 9th 2007, 23:32

    I love the design. Can't wait to see it completed.

  7. EricOak

    4 ratings12345
    Sep 9th 2007, 14:19

    I had to laugh when I read the phrase "with the public in mind." Whether one likes the design or not, the Burchfield-Penney was completely and totally anti-public from start tio finish in their handling of this project.

  8. EricOak

    1 ratings12345
    Sep 12th 2007, 00:19

    The new BP is a lazy, hum drum design. The Gates Circle Tower is a boilerplate stack of glass. A wave of mediocrity rises in a city of once spacious, refined architecture. Our standards have plummeted.

  9. hamp

    4 ratings12345
    Sep 9th 2007, 16:47

    I find this museum about as interesting as a shopping mall. The architects have come up with something that is neither original nor exciting. The BP can PR this thing all they want, but it's a mediocre building on a very prominent site. I won't even get into the blank wall on Elmwood. Check out the architect's website. Zinc panels and manganese brick seems to be as good as they get. And that's not good enough for this location, in this city.

  10. waterboy716

    4 ratings12345
    Sep 9th 2007, 15:04

    o, i can't resist.

    'totally anti-public from start to finish'

    does that have something to do with the fact that the entire process took no time at all?

  11. RPreskop

    1 ratings12345
    Sep 10th 2007, 19:27

    The new Burchfield- Penney Art Musuem will be an outstanding work of cutting edge modern architecture when it is completed. I am getting sick and damned tired of you know-it-all architecture critics who continue to have a deep seated narrow-minded hatred towards this fine, modern new musuem. The design will greatly enhance the physical appearence of the Elmwood-Rockwell intersection and help bring Buffalo's cityscape into the 21st century. You architecture critics don't know your ass from a hole in the ground. You all want to be obstructionists because you are all scared to death of new ideas, new designs, and progress in general. It is because of narrow-minded, backward attitudes expressed by hamp, Chris69, and others, that Buffalo continues to remain in a state of urban decline. All you jokers should do the rest of us Buffalonians a long overdue favor and move to North Tonawanda.

  12. RPreskop

    1 ratings12345
    Sep 12th 2007, 19:49

    I wish some of you guys would open up your minds and stop being so critical of the new Burchfield-Penney museum building. It is definately not a lazy building. It is a refreshing, cutting edge, high quality modern design that will greatly enhance the Elmwood-Rockwell intersection. It will be a unique, interesting looking structure when completed. Let them complete this building first before passing judgment on it.

  13. chris69

    1 ratings12345
    Sep 10th 2007, 00:01

    In a city that markets itself for architectual excellence and diversity of design....this building and its patrons are embarrassments to the art community and to the city...just the majority of Buffalo States 1970s Ape City.

  14. chris69

    0 ratings12345
    Sep 11th 2007, 03:50

    I agree Daniel...if the AK does anything above ground...it will be like the Castellani and the B-P....a large blank wall but I believe that I heard they were going underground.

    I think its very disappointing that they wont do a separate museum on the waterfront with something really bold.

    I picture a museum within a museum......art museums need large blank walls and little sunlight because sunlight can damage and age artwork.....but wouldnt it be incredible if an architect created a glass sculptured Gehry extrior and a blank walled interior.

  15. 300miles

    0 ratings12345
    Sep 11th 2007, 20:16

    It would be an interesting comparison to look at the people in this thread that sit back and blast the new gallery and say it's all wrong and compare them with the people in the Gates Circle condo thread who villify others that don't like that tower. I would bet that they are the same people.

    If you think you should have the right to change the design of this museum because of your own personal tastes, then you can't criticize those that want the tower redesigned for the same reasons.

    Otherwise, take your own medicine, and deal with the design. You're not going to like everything that gets built

  16. crc

    0 ratings12345
    Sep 10th 2007, 08:18

    Right on hamp. That wall! I think the same thing each time I walk by that building. What's with the blank wall?!?

    Public-involved projects may take longer, but at least we have nobody to blame once they're done! This thing is ugly. And what's taking so long to put it up?

  17. hamp

    0 ratings12345
    Sep 9th 2007, 23:03

    I don't believe this is a "Buffalo" thing. Let's not beat ourselves up over this. Every city has lot's of mediocre buildings. It's the missed opportunity here that really is upsetting. Also, there is no defense for the lack of community process. BP didn't want the community involved in spite of what they will say publicly.

  18. Zak

    0 ratings12345
    Sep 11th 2007, 10:42

    Why are all the detailed views of the new Burchfield-Penny Art Museum found on the gwathmey-siegal.com website identified as "Crocker Art Museum - Addition and Renovation"?

  19. EricOak

    0 ratings12345
    Sep 12th 2007, 10:07

    It's not a question of modern versus old; it's a question of vision, taste, and quality. I like a lot of powerful modern design--this tower is not it. And the BP is a lazy building on the exterior. Buffalo deserves better modern design than this and we should be disappointed not thrilled when we're served up leftover design.

  20. chris69

    0 ratings12345
    Sep 12th 2007, 01:15

    I know alot of people that hate the B-P but are find with the Gates Circle. The gates circle isnt the compagnile or 800West Ferry but its no blue whale either. I think that people expect different standards for one in a lifetime museums than they do for residential towers and homes. SoI think your opinion is only half correct.

  21. Hospitable

    0 ratings12345
    Sep 9th 2007, 21:38

    New museum...more complainers...I'd of left it unbuilt just to punish the crybabies.

  22. TownLine

    0 ratings12345
    Sep 10th 2007, 04:29

    I feel the exterior design and materials are horrendous. Pretty much exactly what I expected when I learned Gwathmey and Siegel were the architects. Some of the worst architects out there when it comes to adapting to the exterior context - and that does not mean it has to resemble neighboring buildings or can't be modern. They just have a huge track record of designing buildings that turn their backs on everything around it.

    However, I had a chance to tour the inside, and I have to say, its absolutely fantastic on the interior. The program of the spaces and the flow of the building really blew me away. This is going to be a MAJOR attraction for the city. Between this gallery and the Knox, Buffalo is going to have some of the finest gallery space in the US. Additionally, the activities and functionality planned for the museum is going to engage the community like no other cultural in the region.

    We have a fantastic asset about to open on our hands, its just regrettable that they completely missed the boat in creating a positive and progressive visual image for themselves.

  23. chris69

    0 ratings12345
    Sep 10th 2007, 20:25

    David, the only way the Albright Knox could do that would be to build an entirely knew building in a new location such as the waterfront....perhaps as Milwaukee did with an outer harbor museum by Calatrava but rumor has it that the expansion at the Albright Knox will be additional underground space....in essence their going to expand their basement.

    Expanding a basement will neither be bold nor creative nor allow the potential for bold or creative

    The Albright Knox turned their back on their classical collection, the Burchfield Penny turned their back to Elmwood Ave and the now the Albright Knox instead of using their betrayal of the classsical arts to finance a new building....they will most likely expand their basement (what better metaphor can their be for a liberal elitist art community with their head up their arse than a cavernous underground brown tunnel as if one is descending into a large intestine......to which the large blank brown wall at the B-P seem to emulate quite well too!

  24. doc

    0 ratings12345
    Sep 11th 2007, 10:35

    Wait until the exterior is complete. I think there will be a big change of heart. Let's not lose sight of the fact that this is a multi-purpose facility for world-class art and world-class art education. As far as I'm concerned the architects take very much into consideration the academic context and most definitely consider the client in this development. How much of the client do you think our beloved F.L. Wright took into consideration?

  25. hamp

    0 ratings12345
    Sep 10th 2007, 21:31

    Don't be so sure about the Knox basement plan. They have plenty of room on the Elmwood side to do a great addition. And I think that is what will be coming in the future.

  26. davvid

    0 ratings12345
    Sep 11th 2007, 14:31

    Sack, just because Grachos says nice things about his neighbors doesn't mean that he doesn't have a higher standard for his own institution.

    hmmm...Daniel Libeskind will be lecturing at the Albright on October 14th.

  27. DanielSack

    0 ratings12345
    Sep 10th 2007, 22:28

    I don't have high hopes for a wonderful addition to the Albright Knox. The A-K director is already on record exclaiming the beauty of the new Burchfield-Penney design.

    From the Buffalo News 2/15/2006, "Louis Grachos, director of the Albright-Knox Art Gallery across the street, expressed enthusiasm for the building's design "I love it. It's an elegant building. That beautiful curve will give the building tremendous presence as you approach it in all directions," Grachos said. "It's going to glisten and over time develop a patina. I think it will be a very, very nice addition."

  28. doc

    0 ratings12345
    Sep 9th 2007, 19:18

    Sorry you feel that way hamp. You'd probably be happier if the designers stuck a couple of Corinthian-capped columns out front. Travel to some other cities to see their latest museums. St. Louis and Reno, specifically. They both radically pale by comparison.

  29. PrincetonElms

    0 ratings12345
    Sep 10th 2007, 22:34

    Some people might think that a gasometer (look it up, Messkop) is "cutting edge!" ... but it's strictly 1895 Industrial.

  30. 300miles

    0 ratings12345
    Sep 12th 2007, 03:12

    Victorian Homes were considered "hum drum" when everybody else on the block had the same thing. We need to appreciate our past architectural history while stepping into the 21st century. It's 2007. This is modern architecture. We should build designs that reflect the age we live in, not just continually mimic the past.

    Some people need to separate out their personal preferences from what is truly good or bad architecture. Your personal preferences are irrelevent.

  31. PrincetonElms

    0 ratings12345
    Sep 11th 2007, 01:09

    "First museum to be built in 100 years"

    When do you think the Museum of Science was built ?

  32. davvid

    0 ratings12345
    Sep 12th 2007, 16:30

    We should have better, more inspired designs in everything from our art museums to our water towers. I think one of the reasons that we don't is cost. I think another major reason is that many folks in Buffalo have no idea of how to access the best available practices. Its not enough to just say "we deserve better" when many don't even know what "better" looks and feels like. This is the only way that I can understand why anyone would hire someone like Carl Frizlin or insist on rebuilding old Frank Lloyd Wright ideas. There are plenty of amazing young or emerging architecture firms out there that are willing to do alot of work to get their designs realized. We first need to know this talent exists and second we need to draw them to our city.

  33. davvid

    0 ratings12345
    Sep 10th 2007, 19:57

    If the Albright-Knox ever expands I think its a safe bet that they will employ either an already influential architect or an emerging one. Keep hope alive.

  34. impressingagent

    0 ratings12345
    Sep 13th 2007, 03:10

    i don't have too many complaints about the building. Buffalo state has its art program and i think whatever they could build will be a huge benefit for the program. Some of the window placement is right on and the rest of the building is an odd, but very stately shape. I don't know if they will have the dog fighting inside or out? none the less, this is a school building, for most likely academic representational art. go figure!

    of course i'm just kidding with what its going to be about. I just hope they install sprinklers for the lawn and have contests.