As someone who has lived in both suburbs and cities I can see both sides of this story. On one side, Amherst, OP & the more well to do burbs don't want to deal with the inner city problems and pay for services they don't see. Plus half of the people in these burbs don't even know where the city of Buffalo is, which is probably the first problem. The suburbs also want the suburbs to thrive; often at the expense of the city. I don't know the tax implications but knowing NYS there is NOTHING good that can come out of this tax wise. On the other hand, it would be great to make the city larger, ala Los Angeles model. One thing is for certain: we need to cut the fat. We've lost 1/2 of our population in the last 50 years yet government continues to grow, take larger salaries, do less and make more bad decisions every year. Why are we paying big bucks for incompetent people when there are more than enough on the streets. We might as well elect hobos.

Increasing the population of the city of Buffalo (although you mentioned it would be nothing more than changing borders) does wonders. The larger your "city" is, no matter how you define it, the more state aid and recognition you receive. You also receive a larger representation in state government, which is supposedly a good thing. I also think that if the Clarences, Amhersts etc would have to pay for city resources and infrastructure that maybe they would use the city more, since their money would go there anyway. The goal is to try to bring as many people to the city as possible, however means necessary.

PS I'd also be sweet to have the stadium downtown or even quasi downtown, just to get people down there as well. Go Bills!

Buffalo Schools will never be fixed. No amount of money being thrown at them will ever bring them up to the level of a weathier school district. It is not the money in the district, but the class of the children attending them.

Children from poor borken homes will underperform. Its a given. There will be some standouts, but as a group that is the way it is. By keeping our redundant gov'ts and school districts we are only perpetuating the problem. People are foced to move outside a district and with the city being one whole district, out of the city. But they do conviently allow us to class segregate.

Places like Cheektowaga with multiple districts will have it a little easier, albeit a slower death. As the first ring districts start to fill with a greater concentration of these types of students through current disinvestment and sprawl, these effects will only snowball until they are in the same situation as the Buffalo School District. Want a good school? Sprawl out or go private. Its the only choices our laws currently allow. Sadly a nice city neighborhood does not entitle you to a good school through the desegragation rulings that conviently stopped at the city line.

Unlike our northen neighbors who figured out long ago the benefits of regional governmants and spreading out low income residents and putting them near jobs, we continue on our downward sprial in a broken system hoping some maricle will change things while death gripping our little piece of a vanishing pie. God must have forbid we work together to bake more pies ;) He already forbid we worship together as we can see in the "Journey of Fatih and Grace."

Whether you live in Amherst or the "Amherst neighbourhood of Buffalo" will probably not make much of a difference in terms of getting people more interested in the inner city, even if they are paying for city services.

From the news today:

http://www.buffalonews.com/cityregion/easternsuburbs/story/215840.html

"He also compared Erie County to other, thriving communities. Greater Charlotte, N.C., for example, had a 2005 population of about 752,000 with eight local governments, 135 elected officials and 17.5 births per thousand. Greater Buffalo, defined as Erie County, had a 2005 population of about 923,000, 45 local governments, 439 elected officials and 11.3 births per thousand. "

Its like each family member in the house supplying thier own water, electicity, food, laundry, kitchens, driveways, etc etc etc and fighting over/shuffling through the same income producing jobs. Walk to one side of the house and see it falling apart vacant while someone else is putting an adition onto the good side of the house. Those on the good side of the house can pretend that the bad side is not thier problem. Then sit around wondering why the house is so disfunctional and no one else wants to visit or move in.

Are we this dumb? Are we that scared? Are we that selfish? Whatever we are, we currently deserve the state we are stuck in.

Whether you live in Amherst or the "Amherst neighbourhood of Buffalo" will probably not make much of a difference in terms of getting people more interested in the inner city, even if they are paying for city services.

As a displaced Buffalonian (Hutch Tech, UB Urban Planning & NYU Real Estate Development alum and hopefully future developer) I have seen both the Buffalo & NYC model at work. As a young Hutch-Techer I thought that a Borough system would work and I've always believed that our boarders were too small (42 sq miles - with only a few cities bigger in population with smaller boarders...Miami and so on). Buffalo would be a perfect place for this system as I've stated that before on this blog to paraphrase...

"My plan would be a regionalism/ growth boundary hybrid. You have regions like Buffalo and Lackawanna that have struggled and should be paired as a borough. Our region is very segregated and not realizing that and trying to go against it would be suicide for any forward thinking idea. So you can make Amherst pay for Buffalo, you can’t pair them either. Buffalo and Lack (maybe Kenmore just because of density), Amherst with Clarence, West Seneca with Orchard Park, the North Towns possible even Niagara Falls (it is only 15 minutes away Brooklyn to Midtown same time). Five boroughs five individual goals with one regional city government governing the entire set, then create an urban growth or build boundary. Clarence fine, you don’t want to stop building forget Buffalo's eastside, but Amherst (at Sheridan and Bailey better be filled before you build further out). Get the drift. This would allow for one police force, one everything, don’t even paint the police cars just put a Greater Buffalo Sticker on them. With boroughs of Buffalo, Amherst, Cheektowaga, Southtowns and Tonawanda, City Hall would have a reason for all those floors."

I believe coupling like minds with like minds helps focus on individual goals of that individual community, just as the Elmwood district has a different agenda than the Ellicott district, Amherst has a different agenda than Buffalo. But we can no long think so small (and yes I said we, it may not be for another 5 or 10 years but once I get my experience if I don’t fall in love with the money, I will be back...I'm sick of Brooklyn already (I want a car, I want a garage!!) But back to the point, we are too small, fighting for crumbs. If Cheektowaga and Amherst work together to attract businesses maybe they can stop stealing them from Buffalo and each other and steal them from another state. Imaging one cohesive Industrial/Business development agency instead of five of them fighting each other. I picture the regional system as a GE project management system where there is an agenda based on project importance. Each former municipality (new district in the borough...Amherst for example) presents proposals for projects of importance and the deciding factor is what is most important for that borough with the top projects based on available funding moving on to the next phase (like building roads further out to attract development (which I hate by the way) or to provide incentives to promote infill development (in Amherst) creating shelve ready sites maybe. Once this is done it moves up the latter until it reaches the greater governing body that collects the overall shared tax. This tax would be a portion of the tax that is already collected and will go to the regional pot (not additional taxes to what already exists). This is what boroughs will compete for, the 1 to 2% points of the total tax or of the borrowing power of the region which should get an upgraded rating due to size of the city and less risk. This will allow for projects in Buffalo or Amherst to win on merit and not on unevenly distributed tax base while still allowing that borough to keep 5 to 6% points of the 8% tax they collect. (I'm just using these percentages as examples; I don't know exact #s). Suburban areas are safe and in a better condition now but they don't stand a chance of surviving if they don't cooperate with a regional plan. What do you think will happen once they loss 50% of their population with their low density and spread out communities making it harder to provide services to theirs constituents eventually creating a higher tax burden on less people.

I am an avid Buffalonian but I chose to leave due to the fact I couldn’t find a job (recent article relevance) in my passion, Real Estate Development. I wasn’t talented enough (even though I was); I wasn’t smart enough (even though I was (NYU master to prove it) I may have not knew the right people (even though I did). But I still want to come back and help the city I love, the city that slapped me in the face too many times, the city on the lake with immense potential that just can’t get it together. I always made the statement that I would leave if I couldn’t find a job and now with the masters I have I’m sure I could find one, but it’s not the same now. The question now is a job enough, is running my own development company in 10 years enough and is the city going to be able to bounce back now being the deciding factor. Garage or not, I can still provide my young wife and hopefully future children a better life somewhere where most politician don’t chase their own tail.

I’m a young 25 year old getting experience in my field to hopefully one day help build back our forgotten city. I’m not trying to give a bio, I’m just trying to provide insight on the issue of brain drain and the city of Buffalo. There are thousand of people like me, young, displaced and still reading the Buffalo News, Business First and Buffalo Rising everyday waiting and hoping for positive signs of improvement and a shift into high gear from our beloved city. I believe that a regional borough system (at least for me) would be that sign, because it’s not the weather, its not the population loss (Erie county hasn’t lost nearly as many people as Buffalo has, so most of us are still in the region) it’s the politics, it’s the stagnant economics. But with that said there are bright spots. Ask anyone that took classes with me at NYU, or work with me, I think they would say they were sick of me promoting Buffalo, but some of them have actually been paying attention and have been asking questions which I think is a good sign.

Oh, one last thing, I think the Buffalo Bills stadium would do well as a Stadium/Convention Center Hybrid, we would be able to benefit economically from a convention center way more than from 8 home games (even though I love the Bills. Go Bills!! Thank god for Direct TV) and it would definitely help pay the bill for the stadium. We could finally blow up that ugly brown concrete Brillo pad of a building we’ve called a convention center for so long. Excuse my grammar/spelling as I have been typing fast at work, thank you.

Having borough under the Buffalo, NY city name would be very interesting.

Lets say we have a regional police force.

How does that effect all the suburbs? Will Amherst be policed differently then they are today? Will there be different rules and laws? As an Amherst (or any burb, city) resident what will change for me in regards to my police force or safety?

NOTHING! Wait......my police cars won't say amherst anymore....they'll say Western New York.

These boundaries that we draw up are stupid. Last I checked, high taxes, job loss, ect, ect is effecting all of us.

ed12577521 that was the best response this site that I have ever read...you summarized my thoughts and feelings (and probably a million others) exactly...if only the city could get rid of the politicians there now and put people like us in charge (not to be modest)

Go Bills!

The fact that I keep seeing "Go Bills" in many of the posts I've read in the past two days makes me smile. We have such a passion for this city, it's great for the spirit!

Go Bills.

I know far too little about the regionalism debate itself...

but I do wonder if the borough concept would be more easily put-in-place in regards to NY State...since its obviously already in place downstate

tonyarmani... Thank you. As far as running things…I think I would save government or politics along with teaching, for retirement. But I do believe passion is one of the key components of revolutionary action, which definitely needs to take place in Buffalo in order for a renaissance or rebirth to happen. Words need to equate to action, which I'm too preoccupied to provide at this time. But I believe you and people like us with passion, could if they wanted to, provide change. But like I said, action is the most important step. As we are all Monday morning Trent Edwards it’s much harder to be J.P. So even with my distain for the over supply of politics and politicians in Buffalo the demand for change must be persistent and evident to create a discomfort for those in power to recognize the need to change. Without that ingredient it’s business as usual. Plus there are a lot of good guys in office working with limited resources, many that I do respect; it’s just hard to justify the mass of them.

Those who have been successful in business, sports and in life normally have obstacles to overcome. A POSITIVE spirit coupled with determination, hard work, tunnel vision (for the goal) and good timing were the factors of success time and time again. I believe Buffalo to be the Boston Red Sox (including fans) of American Cities. We were great (won before/8th largest city in America). We made bad decisions (Babe Ruth trade/50s through 80s). Seemed to be cursed. But we will be winners again. Sorry I couldn't use a Bills analogy, it just didn't fit as good. GO BILLS!!!!

Go Sabres?

Look I dont see why the city or any of the suburbs need to have an HR department, accounting department and auditing department, purchasing department, housing court and inspections, or even an IDA....these should be at the county level and used as a shared resource.

The other things like schools and police can be treated as special services districts.

Just put costs on each service..and allow each community to simply choose voluntarily which services can be consolidated and which services need to remain at the local level.

Oh and another thing that needs to be put on the table is replacing a county executive with a county manager.

Put the political planning in the hands of a county executive and put a county manager under contract to handle all executive functions and how they are run, then bar the county executive from having anything to do with hiring, firing, contracts or union negotiations to protect against union pressure and patronage temptations.

The suburban residents voting with their feet for home rule are the same ones screaming about their tax burdens. Can't have it both ways, folks. There is no Santa Claus, delivering all the goodies you want for nothing, especially in government.

We can't even get a bridge built or get our elected scumbags out of govt (we elect them back in).... How are we going to get regional govt pushed through?

My vote is for WNY to be the 51st state- or at least part of Florida... All our retired state workers (and our money) are down there. Who says states have to be connected? Just brainstorming/venting

I'd love to see this sort of thing happen, though it really should include merged school districts. I'm amazed at how casually people are willing to sentence kids to a life in the permanent underclass through class-based segregation in schools. Concentrating poverty in one place always makes things worse, whether we're talking housing, education or anything else.

chik -- check out MJWorthington's post above, I think he has it exactly right. Local schools are segregated by class. Schools in Clarence (or wherever) are full of middle class kids, while Bufalo schools have much poorer kids. That's what makes the difference. In those city schools that are selective and tend to have a greater proportion of middle class kids (City Honors, Olmsted schools) perfomance tends to mirror the suburbs.

Just as concentrating poor folks into housing projects tends to make everyone there poorer, concentrating poor students into the same schools is a recipe or their failure. And if we don't make some fundamental changes, we'll keep getting the same result.

Should the suburbs adopt residency requirements too? Then you'd lose all those middle class teachers who live in the City and commute out to Orchard Park and Williamsville (and there are lots of them). Residency requirements are helping kill the city schools. Buffalo should be working harder to make the city someplace people WANT to live, not force them to be there and hire investigators on the public payroll to investigate what city or town people sleep in at night!

Good point Boz. I would not have thought that there were numerous teachers living in Buffalo and teaching in the 'burbs. It makes perfect sense though, I have lived in the City - Parkside (my own apartment, since I lived in No Bflo for 2 years previously) since 5-2006 and I have never hit a traffic jam once, it's great, on City streets or the highways.

wizardofza - I don't understand your comments: It's sad these days that city living has been relegated to a lifestyle choice. Though, when gas prices go up even further this will start to change. .

1) Living in a particular area is a CHOICE, you must choose where you want to live. I have to ask why this is sad? I have not felt sad living in the City once. Knowing the differences is always a challenge, parking, etc... I always love a challenge, I am not challeged offen enough.

2) Gas prices....I only had one job in the City, at HSBC, and although I took the subway downtown, it was only for about 7-8 months. All my other jobs have been in the 'burbs, Amherst and WIlliamsville. I'm sure most people can not walk to work, being that their jobs are right around the corner from their residence.

I love living in the CIty and I enjoy it's diversity. It's too bad that I don't have enough time (or energy) to appreciate it more.

RonR, THAT'S THE POINT!!! Burbs can use the same arguments the city does for enacting residency requirements -- you know, "people taking our hard-earned tax dollars should live here and spend their money here." Yes, it would hurt the city if suburban school districts had residency requirements. But that's why the argument for them in one place cuts both ways.

Just another reason why unions are killing this city: http://www.buffalonews.com/home/story/216476.html?imw=Y

if you kids goto city schools, time to pack up and move out

Go Trent Edwards!

chiknlil: I have taught high school in both high income and low income neighbourhoods. I have worked with academically weak kids in after school programs on a volunteer basis. I am not defending teachers or their salaries because I have worked in industry and realize that some teachers may be overpaid. However I will say with 14 years of teaching experience to back me up, that the number one indicator of quality education is the childs routine at home. Is the home life structured in such a way that education is a priority? I realize that a good kid placed in a class with weak kids or a poor teacher can be a hurtful academically, but for the most part that will kid will be successful. Teachers are not as important as everyone makes them out to be.