You know I've been hearing all about this Bass Pro nonsense for weeks and months and I've reached a bit of a boiling point. Everyone wake up. If Bass Pro makes profitable business sense, wouldn't they be busting down the door to get that place open? If an outdoor sportsman supply store made profitable business sense downtown, why doesn't (or why hasn't - ever) a smaller shop with similar goods set up shop profitably downtown somewhere? What does everyone think about the sad possibility that a giant store with no proven market in downtown Buffalo opens up to great fanfare *only* to go out of business in 5 years or left, leaving yet *another* empty shell downtown? People have to realize that they don't "vote" for stores or "sign petitions" for stores or start blogs to "rally support for stores". There is a big difference between democratic activism/armchair quarterbacking and BUSINESS i.e. supply and demand. The people of Buffalo would be better served with more income engines and incubators downtown. Let the shopping take care of itself! Who would give a dying man candy when he needs to eat vegetables? Unfortunately THIS dying man is addicted to candy and he confuses it with vegetables. I don't know how to shake the shoulders of Buffalo so that they will snap out of this addiction to retail and spending even as their infrastructure rots out from under them. If you have somewhere to put your money, time, and energy and your resources are tight and the future looks grim, that is exactly the time you need to invest in the right things with serious purpose and focus. Art is nice, retail is nice, but we are addicted to candy when we need vegetables. The people of Buffalo need to focus first and foremost on business principles and creating the right conditions to make businesses happy to be there. Meanwhile the state of Georgia - and others - seems to add another large employer every 5 minutes. Believe me, retail comes rushing in when they know that the people have money to spend. No one has to BEG THEM.

gfgfgfgf .. good point we can make sure the market has both fruits and vegetables !

What about green area and or a nice walk way where people can congregate and just enough weather when its good. most major cities have a city centre and or square where people meet, commerce etc.... We need an area like this, either at the waterfront and or someone mentioned the other day about the parking area between washington and Ellicott. It would be a great spot for a large surface park and meeting place, it could be turned into a perfect Peoples park

I really liked this idea until you got the shipping containers - maybe its my time in the military living in a shipping container in Iraq, but to me, they don't scream "fun place to be for the summer!" But I am all for gathering momentum, creating a destination, and building excitment. Can the same effect be created with tents or other semi-permanent buildings? I for one would go on a regular basis - everytime I'm down in that part of town, I walk around the fence of the construction site looking for something to do. Look how busy The Hatch is in the summer. Whether its a food market, or lunch, or artists, or whatever, a temporary "Pike's Street Market" like in Seatlle would awesome. And the perfect place in Buffalo to have it is on the water at this new site.

gfgf...If you were an executive at BassPro, a businessman who thought that Buffalo, NY had solid market potential...what would you do to get your store built? You say "If Bass Pro makes profitable business sense, wouldn't they be busting down the door to get that place open?" What actions would you take to "bust down the door" The door is actually a giant wall composed of the city, the county, the state, the NFTA, etc. etc. What can BassPro (as a business) do besides tell Buffalo..."get your shit together and call us when you are ready to make a move?" It isn't BassPro holding this up. Their offer is on the table. It's up to the "Waterfront Conglomerate" that is New York, Buffalo, Erie County, and other "public interest groups" to make some decisions. You and others don't think that BassPro has a market here. I hate to piss in your cornflakes buddy but you could be very wrong. Business is risk...how many times has some said "it will never work" just to find years down the road that "it" worked with tremendous success. It is the American way, risk and reward. I am sick of listening to you cinical know it alls spout off about how bad of an idea BassPro is. No one can say, with any certainty whether or not BassPro will be a success or failure. In 10 years, if you are correct, go ahead and say "I told you so" but until that day, shut up and let them try. We need to go after the candy AND the vegetables!

Prodigal -Son if you think containers can not be interesting or fun visit: http://www.fabprefab.com/fabfiles/containerbayhome.htm

careful nonono use of an electrical device like a computer around natural gas could cause an explosion

Your correct Dan, and I hope you do not think this idea interferes with that. But who wants to be the first store ? Who wants to dock their boat to go rent a bike ? This location is by no means close to even our urban core with a 3/4 mile walk from Lafayette Sq. you have to walk under the HSBC tower then under the 190 to emerge it what is almost a second (Sabres land) village. I see something like this "marketplace" part of a marketing program to attract interest in this location.

I oppose Bass Pro because of the government subsidies, but the alternative suggested by DanielSack to "allow a real 'neighborhood' to develop" sounds very unrealistic. So many neighborhoods are struggling to stay at their current levels. Would the new Canal Village neighborhood be expected to tempt small shop owners to move there from Elmwood Village or Hertel? Is it intended to lure residents who might otherwise consider existing downtown spaces, or EV, or Allentown, or Essex Street or North Buff? It's difficult for small shops in EV even with so much more long term critical mass surrounding it than Canal Village would have. Regardless of how many planning awards were won, who really thinks a bunch of shops would open down there just because the plan says so? Where would the customer flow come from? Wouldn't those businesses just crash and burn?

At least Bass Pro has a solid track record of generating customer demand and would provide a few hundred jobs. Not enough to make me support it, but sounds much more feasible than what Daniel describes.

from the 2004 Master Plan, page 23: "...Development parcels ranging in size from 3,880 square feet to 29,045 square feet will accommodate a variety of mixed use developments that will complement the Erie Canal Harbor.... It is anticipated that the ground floor uses will be commercial and the upper floors would allow more private uses such as office and residential. ..."

Why would any serious person anticipate all that will happen? Doesn't it sound like what plan writers back in the 70s and 80s probably anticipated would happen for the Main Street Pedestrian Mall?

sleepl8, my friend, your point that no one can predict whether the store will be a success in 10 years is exactly gfgf's pint, I think. All this time, trouble, AND money for a sporting goods store on the waterfront seems silly to little old me. by the way, has there ever been a large, stand-alone sporting goods store which has remained open i this area for more than 5 years?

no what we really should do is to keep looking for other developers/companies to take that spot and give bass pro some competition. It would get them more involved with the area pdq and be a good indicator if they really want to be here. IMO they are not jumping for joy to have the opportunity to be here; it could be seen in their actions. Brown and waterfront board should start doing some fishing of their own and maybe something better will come along...

BP store map does at least show Buffalo as a future location (1 of 10): http://tinyurl.com/2hznlz

As I said before and saying again, BASS PRO WILL NEVER COME TO THIS CITY.

Also, I am really curious, please someone enlighten me:

Why will it take to mid 2009 to tear down the AUD? Asbestos? We all know mid 2009 really means the end of 2010, which means nothing is happening for at least 5 more years.

People, in all sincerity, THIS IS REALLY FUC-ING EMBARASSING for Buffalo and futher makes us look to be incompetent retards with bad weather and gold wigs!

WHAT COMPANY WOULD WANT TO INVEST HERE AFTER HEARING SOMETHING LIKE THIS?

gaustad, I'm not sure about your math... but I have an idea.... find a body, and put it the third row golds (red and black jersey preferred)... apparently dead bodies remove asbestos... or something. (See Wadsworth).

don't laugh, I (and, I"m sure many others) would rather have bars down there than a cheesy sporting goods store. Oh, sorry, I mean really unique destination type store.

hodgepodge. gfgf'spoint is that you cant guarantee success...my point is that on the other side of the coin you guarantee failure either. No. I have not seen a stand alone "sporting goods store" be successful in WNY. Since you asked, have the other cities that support BassPro had tremendous success with other stand alone sporting goods stores? Do you think the because it hasn't worked yet guarantees failure? I don't. Here is a crazy idea. Lets have BassPro AND bars and restaurants. My point is that BassPro may succeed, and if it does it will be a small successful component of bigger picture. Hopefully that bigger picture will include other stores, hotels, restaurants, etc. All I am saying is that it is an OK place to start and that if BassPro thinks that they can make a go of it then why shouldnt we give them a shot? If they fail then I will buy you a drink at Cobblestone because it will be only bar still open in the area.

I dont see why this city has to wait for bass pro! Why not just start putting the cobblestone streets together right now from the water to the currently rewatered section of the commercial slip and start putting up some two story brick canal buildings along the streets. There is alot of businesses that are ready to move in now and survive the future construction...but they will have the restaurants and offices and themed retail and perhaps museums.

They could call it phase 1 of the wharf district....and work on the waterfront section concurrently with the future bass pro canal section.

Why is this so difficult for Buffalo?

sllepl8: will take you up on that offer but afraid that drink will never come (b/c the store willnever come). anyway, in my view, it would already would be a "failure" if the store is built with public financing/tax breaks; and it would be a 2d failure closes w/in a few years; which it undoubtedly would.

DanielSack I don't really disagree with you at all. I think though that there exist the chance to seed something in a way that allows users to creating a meaningful place more organically. Architecture, planning and historic restoration projects all bring implied meaning to this place. Doesn't it seem an interesting low cost experiment to allow the chance for some uniquely "Buffalo" development to occur. The products of our culture, food, music, art, whatever.

Look my comments sound all too serious. The project this blog article proposed was to take a small part of a site yet to be developed and create a funky, unique, temporary "marketplace" for the summer. Shipping containers painted by artist, inhabited by adventurous entrepreneurs, and surrounded by performers and musicians. Then when visited by boaters, historic museum visitors and city workers watch to see what happens.

Everyone's looking for ways to spend spend spend. Fools. Buffalo has plenty of places to spend money. What it doesn't have is enough places to make good money. Recall the poverty rate? Oh wait, that's right.. if you're white and private-schooled... well just keep fiddling and looking for luxury outlets while rome burns. You've got yourself a job after all. It's the other - LAZY - people who aren't making it.

People,.. who the flip cares about more retail and more shops and more parks and more museums.. listen to the blather.. it's all the same.. a bunch of feminines looking for shopping outlets and distractions. Doesn't anyone here want a career? Better leave town unless you're part of the establishment here. I for one would like to see more in-depth reporting on small businesses (or large) that are NOT consumer oriented. High-skilled, high paying and available to young college graduates. Oh yeah, you gotta leave town... I keep forgetting.

I hate to go on a tangent, Damp, but since you already went there, you have no idea what you are talking about on the Daisy Cutter. Its packed with conventional explosives, and is not a FAE (Fuel-Air Explosive). Also, FAE bombs don't suck the oxygen out of your lungs, they just spread the fuel in a large area before its ignited. We also don't use ammonium nitrate and fuel oil in air delivered bombs - we use tritonal and other basic mixes. I work on bombs and take them apart for a living - just stick with what you know when veering into facts instead of opinions.

Roger - checked your reccomended website, and it still didn't do much for me. But once again, I applaud you for putting out this idea, and in general, I think its great.

gfgfgfgf makes a lot of sense:

... Art is nice, retail is nice, but we are addicted to candy when we need vegetables. The people of Buffalo need to focus first and foremost on business principles and creating the right conditions to make businesses happy to be there. Meanwhile the state of Georgia - and others - seems to add another large employer every 5 minutes. Believe me, retail comes rushing in when they know that the people have money to spend. No one has to BEG THEM.

... who the flip cares about more retail and more shops and more parks and more museums.. listen to the blather.. it's all the same.. a bunch of feminines looking for shopping outlets and distractions. ... I for one would like to see more in-depth reporting on small businesses (or large) that are NOT consumer oriented. High-skilled, high paying and available to young college graduates.

There's a lot of deeply misguided yearning here for "more retail and more shops and more parks and more museums" as gfgfgfgf summarized it well.

vgs - If what's meant by 'ready this site' is demolishing the Aud and Donovan bldg, then ok.

...And Bass Pro is paying guaranteed rent and taxes. The money being spent to ready this site is going to be a public expense regardless of who the tenant is for the site. ...

But I can't agree with taxpayers constructing and owning the BP store. Doesn't matter what other crazy spending goes on elsewhere.

I'd favor auctioning the land and let a private entity build the store and BP can pay rent to them and the owner can pay full property taxes. Sales tax impacts fom BP sound good but usually exaggerated. Most spending at BP would've been spent in other stores here, so that big portion shouldn't be considered new tax revenue to justify anything else.

how could anyone not want this. Why are some of you such haters.

Beyond the corporate welfare issue, it's annoying to have the Patakis and Spitzers acting like Santa Claus about this project while their policies keep causing so many deep problems around here. That might explain some of the hate, and I'll admit sharing in that. Other parts of the hate seem to come from people who are anti-chain, anti big box, or anti-parking. I don't agree with those hatreds.

There'd be some upsides to a BP here - some increased tax revenue (not nearly as much as claimed), new shopping options, and most important a few hundred jobs. So I'm not against BP coming here, and not against Benderson retail down there, but don't want taxpayer subsidies of retail - large or small, national or local. I'd be even more against tax money to build some phony village-like infrastructure for small locally owned shops, or any public aid to those, because those are so likely to fail. At least BP would have a decent chance of success.

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Sorry mis-typed above. First sentence is what vgs asked, and rest is my reply to that.

"A possible way to build something interesting and yet non-permanent might be shipping containers."

mmmm non-permanent has a way of becoming permanent in Buffalo.