marketrate showed up. he is indeed a true gentleman. i have his back. maketrate - i understand it was uncomfortable, but you came, had dinner w/ your beautiful gal and represented amoungst other things...balls. please do send me a personal message. we need more peeps like you. and, most of all, i understand and thank you for being a real man, sir. be blessed. u r my boy.
oh yeah - i was the one you thought i was. u earned my respect for showing up...period.
Elena, im not meeeeeeeeeeeeeeeelting . . . not meeeeeeeeeeeeeelting . . .
to backtrack, i feel sillly.
but i stand by by first comments. id even go along with deleting the naughties/threats and to eliminate repeat offenders, but other than that, i really think it does more harm than good.
Maybe if the SAME people didn't jump on to EVERY story and say something negative about it, others wouldn't be so fed up with it. I am not happy that this had to be done, but glad that the possibility of more discussion of the issue at hand can occur, rather than the same complaints being aired below every article.
Positive Comment #2 Wendy's has a new owner Jan 26th, 13:19
Carmina and Wood - did a bang up job on this building, it is really beautiful.
when I moved home 5 yrs ago ( seemed like it was yesterday) I looked at purchasing this building and the attached buidlings including Wendy's.
I belive the asking price at the time was 300k for the entire block. It is a very unique block.
The Carmina buidling has an excellent open lay out on all floors that I wanted to used for one huge loft or two loft apartemtns per floor. Elevator takes you right to your loft. Pretty neat. roof top is very cool with a nice view.
This buidling would also make an excellent call center or executive office space....which is needed downtown.......parking right next door too.
It is a surprise to hear that the bottom floors are not occupied. If somehhow they were able to fill them, a nice retail space or restaraunt downstairs would be easily supported.
I view this as a missed opportunity for myself. It is a great location and will someday be worth a lot of money. I remeber as s kid eating at Wendy's before the train. Main st was packed with people in suits, lot of action there. too bad.
Aside from the fact that the sub way destroyed business on main, I am however shocked that business has never returned. It is a very nice street with the trolly; plenty of room to walk with children, no cars speeding by - very quaint actually.
Main st could be so much more than it is in its current landscape. I sincerely believe if there was an "empire zone" within an "empire zone," sort of speak, Main st would fill up in no time.
Perhaps this is a more economical way to revitalize Main street other than spening another 45 mill to bring traffic back.
Razorpoint, touched a nerve with that little convention center provocation? Sorry, we all know how valuable folks such as yourself in the "event planning industry" are to the regional economy.( Oh, and we need those 300 dozen roses de-thorned by noon) Sadly you couldn't see through my satirical play on historical "persecution" figures. I make no great claims to metaphorical accuracy when I skewer the callow "ECB". As to your assertion that I'm negative, well I've made many positive comments here but I'm no Pollyanna ( are them roses done?). And as to your very amusing analogy of my screen persona to "mold and rot", well, mea culpa. It's not the same rap I got over at Gothamist where briefly I was said to have "infected the very fabric of Time and Space", but for our purposes here, it will most certainly do. ( move another barrel over if you can't fit more waste in this one. Yeesh, good help is just so hard to get over here at the Hyatt) Now go play with your complimentary gift tote, Razorboy.
I just couldn't sit here and read this... Some if thus tit for tat is ridiculous. Oposing views are what make discussions interesting... Some of you take this way too seriously
Moving forward, I will post under my new name "MorePositiveThanPundit" - does anyone remember what this thread is about?
Positive Comment #3
Columbus Park-Prospect Hill Lands On '7 To Save' List
Jan 24th, 01:16
Buffalo has some great projects in the works.
1.) Dulski - great project, good press
2.) Court House - great design
3.) New Condos on Water Front! Very cool
4.) Several new lofts built downtown - Webb is my fav!
5.) Club 31 almost finished - more 5 star dining downtown
6.) Peace Bridge looks like it will finally get done, somewhere
7.) Blue Cross building - done, even if ugly
8.) Aud coming down soon, finally
9.) Prop Values def gone up on west side - huge
10.) Statler will be stabilized for a flip, someone will take this project, it makes sense
Reality:
[expletive deleted] Bashar Issa - he is young and dumb. the sooner he leaves the better. The project has been started, it makes sense, and someone will finish it. We can force him into leaving with violations, law suits, etc.
Although people have said I am negative, this is the first time in my life I have seen cranes dowtown- it really looks like something is happening in Buffalo, especially as the rest of the world gets slammed on real estate.
We are moving in the right directions, finally, and that is important. momentum will pick up, it just takes a catalyst.
God Bless you all, we are in this together and Buffalo will prevail. If it is the last thing I do, I will make sure Buffalo rises again!
gaustad - You shouldn't need to even defend yourself against what Steel wrote.
It was a clear cut case of 'making unsubstantiated claims about an individual' which according to what ECB wrote in the article is now frowned on here - perhaps ironic because it's BR author Steel making an unsubstantiated claim about a BR commenter and refusing to just admit it, let alone simply apologize like a grown up.
Why disprove STEEL's assertion-I mean, accusation, G.? While I like some of the subject matter in his posts, STEEL's comments are simply leaden and sanctimonious. I picture him in robes just like Chief Justice Rehnquist's. Not a matter for engaged public consideration.
ECB - As per your question regarding my post for the Irish Community Center in South Buffalo... How welcome would they (especially the older people) be towards a dark skinned black (and openly gay) man? I think that is an honest question that could only candidly be discussed on a discussion board - people feel free to say what they really feel.
Don't knock me on assumptions about a part of the City, South Buffalo, that I once called home. I have an experience, perspective and view that is radically different than yours. There are many people in South Buffalo I love. Yet, there are very real reasons why a black family, with the means, would and should elect to live elswhere in Buffalo. Jimmy Griffin is hero for some and a monster to others...
As guided missiles go, YESYESYES, you really are a total Scud. The whole point of your existence here is your sad contempt for your betters, chief among them, the majestic nonono. It's a symbiotic relationship for you isn't it, you puny barnacle. the whale need merely sideswipe a pier and you're history. Enjoy your friends at EditCommand, they are all that sustains you.
Some on this site take these posts way too seriously! Instead of worrying about if someone made a racist comment or verbally attacked someone why don't the comments give concrete ways to do more business and help the economy? I would like to see some of the "concerned" parties invite some blacks from the east side to their place on elmwood for dinner or maybe some puerto ricans as well - i hope you get the picture. I don't see much diversity on elmwood avenue, but some on this site pretend to be so concerned with everyone's feelings and well being. I think chocolate sake makes some great points about this as well. I doubt the bro staff hosts many disadvantaged city children/adults up at their canadian summer houses or the canoe club?
Steel - No, saying 'could' would've made the assertion meaningless. It's demonstrably not true anyway, because gaustad has indeed written in BR comments that there are things of value in Buffalo.
Do you ever just admit you're wrong about anything?
It was not a fact, and it was not even a valid opinion because it's provably false.
gaustad - You're indeed one to rise above the fray, and that refuting was nicely done even though it shouldn't have been needed.
ChocolateShake - always impressive and you'd make a very good blogger here or elsewhere.
Many of your readers have no problem with occasional colorful language such as obscenities or "over-use of the verb in caps" (whatever that verb might've been) as a harmless trade-off for wider diversity of comments brought by BTD, etc.
BTD: You have two strikes today. Both of them were for obscenities. One was over-use of the verb in caps. The other describing a sex act.
MJ hit on the key point here:
some will see this as the "end of the world". I doubt it will be such. If it is, then BRO will die. Perhaps it will grow? The market will dictate.
The policy change you're planning is making a guess that the number of people who avoid the site due to it's current comments exceeds the number who are drawn to the site at least in part because of the more open dialogue and diversity. There's a chance that guess is wrong, in which case your ads will be seen by fewer people over time. What you should want to do from a business perspective of course is to attract both groups.
You might want to consider that a smarter business decision (maximizing clicks and eyeballs) could be to have two versions. Leave this one as-is, and it'd be very easily technically feasible to set up a buffalorising-filtered.com that would automatically output the same content minus any comments not meeting the additional restrictions you described above. Or the other way around - buffalorising.com could be the more restrictive editing policy and buffalorising-unplugged.com would be current way. Either way, I'd bet the non-filtered version would draw a LOT more clicks and eyeballs.
A note at top of each page would inform readers of the other option and provide the other URL with a convenient link to it. Once people know, then they'd just go to version they prefer. Avoid User feature would still be available in both versions, allowing even more customized control. Other than setting up the second URL, it wouldn't be any additional continuing effort beyond what you say you're planning anyway.
The idea of a troll-free comments section sounds good on paper (or should I say on-screen) but at the same time I don't have much sympathy for people who walk away from the conversation because of what's being said, no matter how hideous. I'm as appalled as anyone by some of the hateful comments that have become more common lately. My solution is to ignore them or click the "avoid user" button at the bottom of each comment.
It's up to all of us to create an environment where people from all over Buffalo (and beyond) share ideas, discuss, debate, think, learn and grow. Abandoning the conversation because of a bad apple or two (or four) only means they've spoiled it for everyone. Don't let them.
I agree with a policy of deleting, "in its entirety, any post that is off-topic, slanderous, has foul language, obscenity, violence or attacks anyone on the basis of gender or ethnicity."
It's a privlege, not a right to use this site.
For some time now I have observed that comments being left on this site were really tools being used by the individuals who write them to work out some inner "issues/feelings/problems" they may be having - and the emotions they are expressing are not really about the article they are leaving a comment on at all (sort of like road rage). Sometimes negative feedback (constructive criticism) can be helpful but when it gets really nasty instead of informative then I try to just ignore those comments. I do feel that too much severe negativity detracts from the enjoyment of learning what is happening in Buffalo.
BRO might consider enhancing their account validation process. Readers are currently allowed to post prior to validating their account, you can literally put in anything in the email address line. I know because I have done this. Why not require validation prior to posting? I know it is not perfect, but it takes a few more steps to create a fake yahoo account then to just create a new alias. My housemates and I have at least a dozen aliases on BRO, some to post legit comments and others to have fun with. We all know that this isn't uncommon on BRO.
"Those of us working in the community would be much more willing to suggest story ideas if we felt certain that we were not subjecting those individuals to the type of comments that have become far too common here."
Gretchen, life offers precious few guarantees. I don't think it's possible for any public forum to give a promise that there will be no negative repercussion to participation. For example, as a BRO author and commenter I've gotten positive and negative comments addressed to me. I've also gotten "hate mail" both here on BRO and in my private email box. That's the risk we all take when we join in the conversation. The internet isn't 100% anonymous.
I understand your desire to avoid making your students a target. We all have to weigh the pros of getting involved against the cons and decide for ourselves if the benefit outweighs the risk, and even then you're taking a chance.
@STEEL:
The only reason I am lumping you with the racist Neanderthals ( Your phrase) is that you have come to their defense. I am certain that if they treated WNYM to the same type barrage you would find need to do something about it.
Where did I defend what they wrote? I defended the idea that their writings - however mean or nasty - should be left up for the ostensible community to mock and pillory.
I'm not meaning to poke, Elena, I have the highest respect for you. But what I mean by a slippery slope is already being shown in this thread. Al Alo's comment about removing the anonymous element evolved into a BRO pizza party at the Caz. All things considered, couldn't that be looked at as off topic to our subject?
That's the problem you may run into later, and theres no going back.
thank you motor city, my compositions are intended as dulcet tones to the morally indignant, and noise only to the thoughtless and shallow hoi-poloi.
i am nonono, and i endorse this post.
If you ever put that troll image up again I'm never returning. It gives me the creeps.
Thou shalt not curse
" " speak of race no matter what!
" " be negative for any reason
I believe!!
On a lighter note, forgive me Elena, but I had to post this hyperlink to lighten up your mood: http://myspacetv.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=vids.individual&videoid=2295
ECB,
Nice deflection 'off topic', the question was what are your criteria for branding comments 'HATEFUL'?
your email to me stated...."I'm the editor of BRM. I appreciate that you have some insider knowledge...a lot of which we wouldn't be able to print due to substantiation and our basic credo of being a purveyor of good news and only going after the bad if we feel there's a solution."
why would anyone waste time entertaining an invitation such as this, when you state quite clearly that much of what you believe i have to say is not printable on BR? i have stated the solution, in my opinion the AA is skating on past performance, has ceased to be a truly representative organization for an ENTIRE community, and continues to misrepresent the colossal ineptitude and squandered public and private funds surrounding the Coit House. i am very open to discussing the matter with you, in exhaustive detail, when you extend an invitation that is not laden with restrictions as to the content you are open to hearing and printing. the AA and Coit are bad news, very bad and negative news. how sincere is your invitation?
you do realize dont you, that you just engaged in a bit of outing yourself ??? artistic license or editorial prerogative?
I don't know about "ECB" but since beginning to read this thread, I've started a pretty respectable "troll" beard. I mean we have to look the part in this shadowplay of shallow demonization and 'Us vs Them' pontification. My Ma Mere in Charlotte tells me she nearly blew out her Depends reading the hysterically funny overreactions to genuine criticism, from STEEL as well as the predictable control-freak defensiveness from "ECB". Such is the stuff of CounterReformations. Nonono, our very own Martin Luther getting chased by Cardinal Richelieu's posse with the "editrix" Elena warming the fires and gathering straw is beyond fiction. But, as BuffaloPundit knows, they count eyeballs, not scalps.
BTD, ECB and others posting links should keep in mind RisingDamp666 wrote that he might email a link of this thread to his grandmother in Charlotte. Careful you don't cause him any embarrassment on behalf of BR or Buffalo.
ECB... your tone seems more relaxed. Have you had a few glasses of fine wine while patroling these comments for improper posts?
Did BTD say he was "Done with this site"...let's see how long that lasts...
Buffalopundit: Do you think that BRO should be required to post about One Eyed Jacks and Kentucky Greg's? As much as I love Kentucky Greg's, I appreciate that BRO focuses on the city. That may seem exclusionary to some people, but if not for BRO, where would I go to hear about what's happening in Buffalo other than drive-by shootings, arsons, and the latest poverty ranking? Focusing on positive things is not the same as ignoring negative things, and I don't think there's any shortage of sources for negative news about Buffalo for those who are interested. Honestly, I don't think the suburbs need any additional promotion within WNY. Also, I don't agree that BRO focuses only on the Elmwood Village. There have been tons of posts about businesses and happenings in other areas, like my hometown of Black Rock.
Nearly all of the blogs and forums about other topics that I visit regularly have some form of moderation. It's not at all unusual. Some are better about it than others. I know of some blogs that have banned any sort of negative comments directed at the site or its writers. That's just ridiculous, and if things get to that point on BRO, then I'd really be concerned.
ECB - in your 17:51 comment (seemingly responding to mine at 15:52) I would like to know why you felt the need for the following statement? "Please refrain from wiping your mouth on the curtains, your feet on the couch." Is that how you treat your guests when acting as a host in real life? The arrogant tone of that comment is bothering me. Can you understand that?
To me, the aforementioned statement shows how much (or little) you value input from commenters. So perhaps your explanation will shed some new light, or maybe an apology is forthcoming?
Hi Granny Damp!! We love you, but go back to your site now: http://www.well.com/~vard/cookies.html
"Ms. Elena Cala Buscarino, tear down this Blog !" *
* nonono in a speech to a mob of BR riff raff, 1/30/2008
Yesteray - Positive Comment 1 City Gives AM&A's Developer deadline
"This is a beautiful building. We needs it urban fabric to mainitain the continuity on Main St. It would be a mistake if this were demolished. Some day a developer will turn it inot lofts. I guarantee it. "
@"bizcomplete":
so the artvoice and block club coverage of the city that isn't "reflexively negative" is the pieces focusing on bad actions by city politicos? oh, ok. now i'm clear.
Yes, the Artvoice and Block Club coverage of the city that isn't "reflexively negative" include pieces that _Artvoice_ did focusing on bad actions by city politicos.
Because that's not reflexively negative.
It is factually accurate reporting on a newsworthy event.
I'm sure you knew the difference. You're just trolling. And on your own site, at that. Tsk tsk.
WHAT A THREAD!
Now this is the Buffalo I know and love. There is a middle ground. The reality is that some posts are too negative and crude. On the flip side, some of the optimism is simply not warranted and ignorant.
FACT:
I shopped for commercial real estate downtown all afternoon to compare to Amherst. I am looking for a small to medium size space and I am willing to spend 2500-3000/month for my business. Not a storefront.
Looking around at all the vacant buildings and caliber of foot traffic, one would have to think twice before they risked their hard earned dollars in downtown Buffalo. No matter how much loyalty I have to this city, it is simply not a good place to conduct business, and that frustrates some of us to no end. You can refer to us as business people.
Once again, real life problems require real life solutions. At times, shock value is the only way to get through to people who do not understand that some of the issues discussed on this site are, in fact, the reason that Buffalo is falling further behind.
My name is Paul and I welcome your suggestions!
Am I the only one who is bothered by the following:
1 - this site is called BUFFALO Rising. 2 - its creators/contributors/curators like to fancy themselves as promoting the "rebirth," if you will, of all things Buffalo, NY. 3 - ECB has the nerve to say "We covered South Buffalo and the First Ward last month. I love the new people I met there. Salt of the earth... We're covering the East Side for March, and it's going to be great."
That's it? These important parts of our city warrant a "month" of coverage? Then what, the fourteenth post about the Village Beer Merchant? I won't even touch the "I love the new people I met there / salt of the earth" comment. As if these foundations-of-Buffalo neighborhoods and their residents are some new phenomeon.
I used to love BR. Still read it most days. But the attitude that's permeated its moderators is just as distateful to some of us as the "rude" comments are to others.
What would make me happiest would be if the community was large enough to be self-policing, for instance somewhere like slashdot or plastic.com. People vote for or against comments (like the stars we have in place) and then users can choose their browsing level. They could choose to only see 5-star comments, or any custom level, including seeing it all, including the nasty stuff down in one-star comments.
Unfortunately, I don't think enough people who want to see real discussion and debate are involved enough in this online community to make it feasible at this point in time.
In any case, I think this moderation is long overdue and will foster civil debate. It'd be nice to see someone complain and be able to pull it off without resorting to namecalling and vulgarity to illustrate a point.
sorry, i want to be King, and i wanna be invited to eat meatballs with the cool kids!
ECB - this is what is published under your terms and conditions (lower left corner at bottom of each page):
"Comments and Discussion Groups Terms of Use
In order to make our Comments interesting and informative for our users, the following guidelines must be adhered to by all users posting and/or viewing comments:
If a comment is made using your identity it will be deemed to have been posted by you. Do not post abusive, obscene, threatening, harassing, defamatory, libelous, offensive or sexually explicit material. Do not intentionally make, false or misleading statements. Do not offer to sell or buy any product or service. Do not post material that infringes copyright. Do not post information that you know to be confidential or sensitive or otherwise in Buffalo Rising each of the law. Keep all comments relevant and 'on topic' to the particular Buffalo Rising Site posting open for comments. Buffalo Rising will not accept responsibility for information posted in the Comments.
If Buffalo Rising receives notice that any posting is not in keeping with these terms and conditions or the intended use of the Comments, Buffalo Rising may remove that posting and/or any other related postings.
Please note that unless a particular Buffalo Rising Site is notified of a posting that is not in keeping with these terms and conditions then we will not remove it, furthermore we do not exercise any form of editorial control or censorship of Comments other than the above stated procedure."
This must be the old policy, no? If so, I suggest you fix the numerous grammatical errors within before reposting it as new. Please consider this constructive criticism from a concerned commenter.
Dear Ms. Buscarino,
In light of this new (favorable) development in policy, I'd like to submit my resume for consideration for the new BRO position of Troll Blocker. I'd even work an extra day a week if I could have the title of Troll Destroyer. I think you'll find my qualifications to be suitable for the position, given my expertise as a Viking warrior.
Thank you.
Dumpster,
I couldn't agree more! It's so annoying to read Buffalo Pundit's smart, well thought out and articulate rebuttals that cite facts and challenge people to think. We *MUST* not allow such dangerous dissenting views to expressed by him. Next thing you know, he will actually take the time away from his young family and run for office in an attempt to make this region better. How dare he!?!?
Buffalo Pundit is the most dangerous thing to hit the streets of Buffalo since Dutch Elm disease!
ECB - Buffalo is a tough town... even tougher the further East, West and South you get from your Elmwood Village base. If any intelligent adult is "intimidated" into silence perhaps they shouldn't surf the internet and might be happier in a less stimulating environment that can be found in the suburbs.
I'm embarrassed to share many BRO articles to my friends around the country not because of anonymous postings but rather because the many errors and shortcomings of the articles themselves. I've yet to understand why a wealthy white woman Elmwood Village woman would find it worthwhile to go to the Tops Supermarkets on Niagara St to write about interactions with "colored" people - it made me feel like I was being watched like an ape at the primate house of the Buffalo Zoo!
And yes... this new "policy" will be used to delete views that don't agree with the typical Elmwood Village Yuppie. Most of the disdane that has been expressed towards BRO has been that it is very ignorant of the City as a whole.
I'll agree that careful moderation is a key element in maintaining a stable, healthy internet community. However, comment policing must consist of rigidly objective criteria, not arbitrary, emotion-triggered post expunging whenever a participant validly refutes the fallacious logic we often see seeping from many of the more recent posts on this site.
Enforcing posts that can be construed as being "off topic" is indeed a slippery slope, considering many such posts are positive in nature and typically wouldn't warrant such drastic action.
One more suggestion, if the criticism is getting too overwhelming, you guys should consider being a lot more careful about what gets posted and the amount of fact-checking and diligence put into such posts. Blatant factual errors, baseless glorification, and gross exaggeration in posts seems to be the norm these days.
Elena, Newell, Authors, Posters et al (no, not me),
hmmmmm. my friends, this can be a slippery slope. one that i am slightly wary of.
it is obvious to any regular reader to this site that, as of late, thing have gotten a little uncomfortable and even out of hand. threads seem to degrade quickly into vulgar (yet often accurate or even funny) observations.
But is a wholesale editing policy the best way to go? at best, its a time consuming, difficult to administrate, and somewhat perception based task of whack-a-mole to monitor every posting.
At worst, editing can become, or be perceived as becoming (sadly, perception is reality), just as abusive as any comments. the freedom to say whatever one feels, is the great liberty of the internet. it keeps the whole system honest. very often it is comments from our resident trolls that help me re-examine an issue. and if going off topic, qualifies for disbarment, i know ill be in for big trouble. like this one time . . . sorry [self edited]
there is a price for such liberty, however: we must weed through the small petty comments, the insults, and the all around childishness (that last one is me) to find the truth. just like real life. lets face it the web is humanity unvarnished after all.
perhaps a somewhat different tack is in order: a call for civility and a little restraint.
i know i have be guilty of forgetting there is a person on the other end of those comments or articles. i know i have been brusque-er (it’s a word) than necessary. remember somebody felt strongly enough to write something for the world to see. if you don’t agree, say why. namecalling or insulting somebody doesn’t prove a point, it just makes the author look one dimensional and childish.
-----
im also going to guess that editing only feed the trolls more – just to see what they can get away with.
Just thought I might throw out there - we have friends from other parts of the country as well as in the suburbs that read BRO daily. I am embarassed at times to know they read certain stories - the stories that had a long list of personal attacks on either the writer or other people posting. Buffalo will never get out of the current "rut" unless the people within it are positive and work toward the common goal of making it better. Positive discussions and healthy debates for good for a community. They reflect in a manner that businesses want to come here, people want to live here and those that are already here want to stay here.
No one wants to be around the name calling, insulting, mean 5-year old bully and that is what some of the comments sound like at times.
There is no need for some of the dirty, racist comments that have been made in the past to be seen by the rest of the country or in the burbs. It perpetuates the negative feelings about Buffalo. I am all for a good joke, or witty rebuttal, but some comments have really crossed the line.
Good call BRO.
I haven't read this long round of comments just because I have a very clear cut opinion on this. These are comments in a public posting section. If Buffalo Rising is going to censor the comments, I fear that they will censor comments that disagree with their views in any way. Now, this is already a pretty pro-gentrification, yuppie-oriented site and publication thus far, and I think dissenting opinion needs to be aired often. Now, I don't particularly like personal attacks, but I think everyone should just ignore them, hereby eliminating a lot of the comment traffic. Simply avoid users you do not like. Very simple.
I'd like to report lulu. She hurt my feelings with her criticism of this thread. :-(
Quite a response from this trolling topic...and just think, without us alleged "flipside" folks, you'd be reading about some ridiculous plans to bring another pizzeria downtown, as if that's going to change your life in ANY sort of way. I speak on behalf of myself, nonono nd a few significant others when I say "you're welcome".
Elena - how about a story on how to file insurance claims as related to this wind storm. Everyone could use a couple bucks...
ECB,
""He rented an apartment on Irving and used to terrorize those neighbors in real life.""
""you want to be king, but wouldn't that conflict with the fact that you are already a raging queen? ""
If i WAS who the angry, illiterate, name calling YESYESYES claims me to be, I might be contacting an attorney right now about the defamatory and libelous statements you post here and make no effort to confirm or delete, under your erratic new editorial policy.
what i WOULDN'T be doing is writing you a 'letter' bemoaning the fact that i couldnt now forward this link to my butt buddies in sausalito.
...to damp you wrote:
""I tried to get you to be one of us"" what is this a cult or a blog?
how about you answer the question i have been asking for weeks.....what is 'all the work' GY has done to Coit ? could we have some specific projects and dollar amounts or does being 'one of us' mean accepting any ungrounded assertions printed here?
Wow. I'm sure many posts have been low class, but this is a strange decision. I think you have just energized your critics who contend this site is far too one-sided, non-journalistic, and otherwise myopic if not self-serving and perhaps collusional with advertisers and supporters.
A post such as the one about the green building being beautiful followed by comments that is for sale, being exposed as trend by a commentor, requires rebuttal not frustration. Many examples like this exist.
I hope you reconsider and simply edit out more of the truly distasteful posts....but warning posters?....that's just against the spirit of a two-way blog.
Change your mission statement.
I look at this site as an alternative news/information/entertainment source. As such, I don't see why it should be OK for people to be racist, use foul language, and spew completely unsubstantiated and vicious rhetoric about whomever they want on this site. If they wouldn't be able to do it on the letters to the editor page of say, Artvoice, I really fail to see why it is censorship to stop them from doing it here. I apply reasonable journalistic standards to all the media I peruse, with caveats. The comments Elena mentions fall far short of those standards. I don't see why the advent of online journalism suddenly makes the unacceptable acceptable.
By the same token, I'd like to see more editorial care taken with the posts, not just with their style and grammar, but also with fact-checking and the inclusion of other points of view and a diverse variety of sources--i.e., not just reworded PR (though for brief announcements of upcoming events, that's fine). I'd also like to see sources, such as the frequently-used Buffalo News, credited.
Why does everyone always try to miss the point of BRO article posts! Comment if you have a comment to add (about the article - may seems obvious, but oft lost in this crowd). Get your own dern website if you feel the need quit your A.D.D. meds and rant uncontrollably like a cranked-up 12 year-old tourette case study.
Oh, FYI - newspapers (the original land of journalists) get 100s of letters (i.e. "posts" for those of you who have never actually felt the cool damp of newsprint) each day. Those fascists print less than a dozen a day.
It might be time to restructure the site to have a real forum, rather than just comments attached to an article. This would make dealing with off-topic, but nonetheless constructive discussions easier, as one could simply start a new thread in the appropriate forum to continue the discussion.
Articles, when posted, could automatically create an associated thread, but would still be addressable separate from the associated thread.
Steel, apologies not needed. I guess some of us have thicker skin than others.
Elena, thank you for your suggestion. I will contact a realtor tomorrow, although I am already familiar with most of my alternatives....and right now, I can't take the risk.
FACT:
I don't know several of the people on this site that support my beliefs. They have taken it upon themselves to agree with my crticisms, including nonono. I also receive praise by email for many of my postings. In a weird sort of way, some of us have developed a following. Call it a coup d'état....
This group that you speak of appears very articulate and successful. Judging from what I have read, they understand business and seem very frustrated that they are being held back by people like yourself.
As you can see, I like Buffalo, that is why I don't move, yet. However, some of us just simply demand more out of life than celebrating the opening of the local beer merchant.
We want real change and strive to make real money. Perhaps you should pay closer attention to some of these posts that you banter on about, you might learn something,
Quite the response for one article, and I thought I was the only one who felt that BRO was going downhill. I support the censorship if it makes the site more suitable for people of all ages and backgrounds. The general disagreements have gotten out of hand with public threats against person and property and private message threats that were much, much, worse. I stopped posting a while ago because it wasn't worth it to me to see my words lost among the sophomoric comments from nonono, gaustad, brokeepsblockingme, and better than detroit. I have seen decent posts from these guys but i find it difficult to respect the good posts among the bad. I compare their work to a good artist who wastes his time vandalizing cars and building, or the teacher who molests his students. The good is overshadowed by the bad. Thanks for bringing civility back to BRO, I hope that it stays this way.
It is a shame that BRO must move in this direction.. I don't blame them I guess it just is a shame that some people can't find the patience or tolerance to keep civil.
I've always said about BuffaloRising...you could announce that Microsoft is moving their worldheadquarters to Buffalo, creating 10,000 jobs of $100K or more...and the same old BuffaloRising people would just complain and go off on their own tangents.
Hey JohnMartin...if you say the BRO staff is unsuccessful, then you must throw yourself into the "miserable" category...cause that's all your posts reveal.
This is a very slippery slope as al alo said. This is a self policed community (Avoid User), and people are respected based upon their contributions. Some people here I may not respect due to their empty remarks towards others. But the fact remains, they can post what they wish, knowing full well the consequences. I can understand editing comments with racial slurs or threats, but language and other things is a path that the poster can chose. Most of the people who read BR are anywhere from being in High School or Retirement. I don't think our virgin ears will be pierced by hearing someone shout $*&% that! From a business standpoint, bad move. It's all about the clicks, and you're making an assumption (I believe someone said this earlier) that you're catering to a larger crowd than you're losing.
I fully support BR, and have defended writers from blatent disrespect. But that's the internet. This is an online community of people who should know what to expect. Put a warning on your registrar if you must that this is a PG-13ish website.
I can see this going bad, let's hope for the best here and not over censor things.
I don't pay close attention to BRO anymore, but not just because of the stupid vulgarity of some of the postings. That was annoying but it never ruffled me, even when I was mocked for having a different point of view or for where I live. I found the coarseness and obscenity of a few less worrisome than the herdthink here, and the belittling of different points of view by the non-vulgar posters.
But I understand the decision. At the same time, I respectfully urge better writing and editing (and proofreading), more discernment about the subjects and tone of articles, and a bit more neutrality about certain projects or issues.
ECB - "You just can't engage in the other bits that incite hatred. That's pretty fair."
I would like to know how anyone has engaged in acts of "hatred." From all observations, what appears to anger some is that people have different opinions - opinions that deviate from those who live privileged lives.
I think its outrageous that STEEL has printed articles that have been downright hateful to the suburbs (i.e. Cheektowaga) but nothing was done to address that. How about excursions to the Niagara St Tops Supermarkets to feel hip to watch "negros" like myself buy toilet paper? I felt like I was being equated to an ape in the primate house of the Buffalo Zoo that was entertainment for some Nardin field trip on a warm day in May.
But someone writes a post a satirical comment and demands immediate attention to protect the fragile sensibilities of a vocal minority? Folks can avoid users that annoy them. Folks can report comments that are over the top - something I myself did recently. I think the real issue here is a desire to squash dissenting opinions.
You are correct that this is your game and you get to choose the rules. However, I think you need to evaluate how irrelevant this webpage is becoming NOTas a result of foolish comments but rather as a lackluster style of writing. If you yearn to have the distinction of being a "respectable" publication, I believe you really need to aspire to much higher standards in the articles written.
Be fair and be consistant. Most importantly, please note, many of your neighbors, especially those outside EV, have views/perspectives that are very different from your own. Respect those differences. It would serve both the City of Buffalo and BRO to avoid the pittfalls of the "tall poppy syndrom"...
Bad idea. I usually ascribe to the notion that if I don't care for something I'm reading I move along, the same as is often said with TV or radio stations...change the channel. Granted, a lot of posts devolve into absurdity but a greater number lead to a fecundity that you simply can't get anywhere else. Too often what is perceived as negative points of view are in actuality constructive criticism, ya some are genuinely negative. So if the desrie is to create a legion of BRO Yes Men & Women, I think you'll find readership down. No offense, but many times the responses are better than the articles.
Very often a great conversation is blunted by dull witted off topic comments by a very few commenters who's only aim is to hijack the thread to call attention to themselves.
This is a good move, in my view, and I think those most affected by it are those who did the most to make it inevitable. As many have pointed out in previous discussions of this, other blogs and forums (such as the blogs hosted by the fishwrapper in My Fair City) have similar decency policies and occasionally have to take the step of banning the recalcitrant - as it's their forum, they have the right. Frankly, I think Elena and Newell aren't getting the credit they deserve for being so tolerant for so long - trying anything and everything short of strict enforcement.
I came face-to-face with the issue last year: after posting a comment that I would never patronize Pano's (and that many of my Buffalo friends feel the same way) I was a flame target of those who told me I was a piece of crap, and to stay out of Buffalo. More recently, I've seen others find themselves consistent targets of attempts to intimidate, and even seen several direct threats of physical harm.
In reality, that's what this is about - can't really see that Newell and Elena had much choice (and they've given plenty of fair warning) - despite any attempt (even by those whose work I respect) to recast this as a 'freedom of dissent' issue. Over the last several years (as described in the George Johnson online article mentioned earlier) BRO has, in fact, become a significant Buffalo institution - I was delighted to see it figure in Mark Goldman's most recent book - and the folks who run it have, and will have, the difficult responsibility of acting accordingly. I think this policy is a sign of positive things to come - and look forward to 2008 being a banner year for BRO, Buffalo, and all our upstate communities.
BRO might consider enhancing their account validation process. My housemates and I have at least a dozen aliases on BRO, some to post legit comments and others to have fun with. We all know that this isn't uncommon on BRO.
It's in the interest of BRO to continue the proliferation of usernames, it gives off the air of more than a dozen readers. The more aliases, the busier this joint looks and the easier it is to sell ads. It's pretty simple.
Yes, they have what is referred to as a "one block" rule. I.e., if the business is about one block outside city limits (Torches, O'Connells are on Kenmore Ave across the street from Buffalo, Ava Cado's is across the street from Buffalo city limits, Suzy Q's is about 1-2 blocks from Buffalo City Limits - and was covered as part of an in-city event at Flying Bison - and Amigo's is at the corner of Elmwood and Kenmore, across the street from Buffalo City limits.) You will not, however, find any glowing reviews of, say, One Eyed Jacks or Kentucky Gregs.
Thank you ECB. I haven't posted in a while because the threads have been annoying, insulting and beyond negative. I relish debate and sharing opinions and hope that this decision to curtail the trolls will enhance the site.
and for those who don't like the opposing view... There are plenty who do as I get private messages agreeing off camera(or off blog) with my views
We have policy about racial comments, obscenity, gratuitous foul language, threat of violence, and making unsubstantiated claims about an individual.
Yes, Alan. I guess I have drawn a line between individuals who comment using these elements and those we'd like to cater to as good citizens.
You can still pontificate on any issue that you wish, imagined or otherwise, as long as you don't break those rules stated above to get there. I'd say that leaves a lot of leeway to have a civil, informed discussion. It just eliminates trollage.
Elena, prepare to delete.....
you said...."Check the Coit House post. Even with all sorts of holes where the worst of it was, I think you can make it out. Regular readers recognized it as hatred toward an individual and an organization. "
this is perhaps the saddest and most revealing comment you have posted to date, and shows a crucial lack of jurnalistic neutrality on your part. do you have a first hand knowledge of the two years of AA energies that were absorbed by the ill fated and 300K expense of the Coit house failure? how it consumed the association almost to the exclusion of all other endeavors? that the project nearly bankrupt the association? that the current president was instrumental in purchasing the house, under the false assurance that it would be spun off by its supporters in short order from the association? then he disappeared and dumped the responsibility on others for three years, and only rejoined the board to stall the mandated sale process? did you do any research? read any board miniutes? interview any past board members or officers before you came to this sweeping opinion? any member with differing opinions than those you were seemingly predisposed to agree with? did you check with commissioner Tobe about what he thinks about the illegal demolition? was the question ever answered "what has GY done or invested into the house to warrant the outrageous asking price?"
How do you distinguish educated and knowledgeable opinion, albeit heated and damning, from 'hatred'? by tone? by verbiage? by your own emotional barometer? if words are your business, you of all people madam editrix, should choose them with greater care.
Goustad, Fact: Listening to you and your friends such as Nonono one would imagine that there is absolutely nothing of value in Buffalo. ...
That's what passes for 'fact' according to an esteemed BR article writer???? Wow, what's the definition of 'opinion' ?
RisingDamp666-
How appropriate your screen name is. Your incessant negativity is the unwelcome seepage that attacks a foundation, bringing mold and rot. You have a facade only a mother (in Charlotte) could love.
Articulate? You flatter yourself. Your persecution analogy using Martin Luther and Cardinal Richelieu might have carried some sting if there were any actual persecution happening here, and if Luther and Richelieu had actually been connected or lived at the same time. Luther died 39 years before Richelieu was born, but who cares about accuracy when you're making a point with one of your gratuitous insults. It's typical of the quasi-intellectual comments you construct.
Your most telling comment recently was this one concerning the Buffalo Convention Center's schedule:
"Does anyone even remember the point of having a convention? It just seems so alien in these days of teleconferencing, internet and instantaneous communication. Herding all that 'meatware' into real space for the sake of a non-alcoholic warm fuzzy has to be among the least relevant of human activities."
Apparently you don't see the value of face to face human contact. "...so alien..." "...least relevant of human activities..." That explains a lot.
You and your fellow cyber-mercenaries need this site to feed your egos; that's why you're so passionate that it not be changed. It's your virtual stage where you seize the spotlight for a few paragraphs each day, pat each other on the back and egg each other on, and you don't have to interact with living, breathing people. You love to bait others and you're very good at it. In fact, I think you and your ilk are master baiters of the first order. Good for you.
Steel, the issue wasn't whether Cheektowaga is or isn't ugly, or whether it is or isn't sacrosanct. The issue had to do with the fact that the two times - TWO TIMES - BRO had (by then) deigned to leave city limits, it was a snide hit piece WCP did on the proposed lifestyle center on Maple in Amherst, and you looking down your nose at Walden Avenue by the Galleria. Here's a link to it, and I'll note that many of the comments were quite nasty about the suburbs and Cheektowaga, yet somehow miraculously the earth continued to rotate and orbit in spite of there not being a comment censorship policy.
A direct quote from you, Steel: "This and much if not most of the suburbs IS ugly!"
Wow. Are you feeling the love and positivity? I know I am.
Part BRO's mission is its decision to not just ignore, but to denigrate Buffalo's environs as being ugly, pointless places that are a net negative in every way, shape, and form. Naturally, BRO is welcome to take that position, just as I am permitted to be saddened by it. For the entire life of my blog, I have advocated for the notion that all of WNY - the whole region out to Batavia, down to Wellsville, and up to Niagara Falls - are in this boat together. I find it sad that the premier "good news" site in the area is expressly hostile to anything outside the city limits.
There's an undercurrent of elitist "better-than-you" hatred behind the good news.
Like I said, that's Newell's prerogative. I find it funny that when BRO's former beer writer wanted to write about offerings at Premier's gourmet store in KenTon, he was forbidden, but it was ok for you to write about an ugly intersection in Cheektowaga? I don't care if every piece on BRO is fluff or a clumsily written paean to some newly-discovered cause du jour, or a poorly disguised advertorial. It's about the cleave.
I have maintained forever that this site's hatred of all things suburban is as shameful as a Sandy Beach listener's hatred for the city. It is two sides of the same ignorant, hateful, xenophobic, counterproductive coin. And that's where my original "karma" comment came from. BRO made an editorial decision to play make-believe that the suburbs didn't exist, and that there was nothing redeeming about them. Many, many people on this Elmwood-centric site share that myopic view, and that's obviously fine. But when people lash back at that, it's too late to cry foul. The doctrine of clean hands is in full effect.
"BRO has, in fact, become a significant Buffalo institution"
That's rather the problem, now isn't it? An assumption of grandiosity about this site. I would say that 90% of people in WNY have no idea what BuffaloRising is and where one would find a magazine or the website. It is a website for people who share a like minded belief that the city is "on the come" and things will get better if we just think positively! Well, that's just tilting at windmills and is rather pointless.
When people do come here and point out some logical fallacies in that kind of groupthink, they are attacked for not loving buffalo and told to leave the site or move. Sounds a lot like the types of things Republican fearmongers use when liberals dare question war policy. How is that progress? Now, comments will be censored on a subjective scale to appease a small subset of people who don't like their tender sensibilities questioned? It's not in the spirit of online communities and will only further insulate this online community from growth and only serve to make us look small and intolerant in Buffalo.
I agree on removing obviously off-topic baiting posts. Dictator will not work, but either does total anarchy in any environment.
You can see the posters that drop in the same childish hot buttons even if they have nothing to do with topic being dicussed. It is true that topics are fluid but someone dumping boulders into the flow just to divert it has gotten out of hand. I wish more people would just ignore the crap so it would 1) go away on its own, or 2) have the same handfull of childish people conversing amongst themselves in every thread. Some of them actually appear rather intelligent and succesful which makes you wonder why they feel the need to act the way they do.
Most of the time, an average joe can see when someone is honeslty trying to add to the conversation and when they are just trying to be an immature bully/trouble maker. There are some others that seem to have some good intentions in their constant hijacking, but hopefully some warnings would help that out.
Of coarse some will see this as the "end of the world". I doubt it will be such. If it is, then BRO will die. Perhaps it will grow? The market will dictate.
Most of the top learning institutions have very open and free forums of discussions in the classroom about the topics at hand. Though I doubt they would allow the free for all that happens here that degrades every conversation.
Adios BTD...Pundit will have you drop your nonsense over at his site for a juicy discussion on race, sex and cars.
Madam Editrix...ouch! Someone take her to the ER! That one may be 3rd degree! Elena, take your time responding to that. A rushed response may be fatal...
this post is so gruesome, it may make it to rotten.com
BTD - I take no issues with anyone's different point of view, it was the threats of violence against me, my family, and my girlfriend that pissed me off. Something about dragging me around by my eyesockets that made me want to push your buttons. I might just meet you a Filippos tonight, my name is Mark and I can guarantee that you won't miss me. I stand out as a definite minority every time I eat at Filippos, and you can recognize me by my gold rolex, or you can just look for the 6'5" 300 lb African American gentleman in the leather coat and my beautiful girlfriend on my arm. Introduce yourself and I may just buy you a drink. I have never found the need to express my thoughts through violent actions and I am not about to make an exception here. You may have a different point of view though, and I will respect that and reply accordingly. If I don't make it tonight it is because my girlfriend wasn't interested in Italian or we decided to stay in because I will be gone for the rest of the week. Either way, I hope you find balance and fulfillment in your life. Peace little man, peace!
Pundit,
The problem is not the one-off comment here and there. Recently, comment threads have been taken over by malicious posters. One recent WCP comment section was pretty much taken over by one poster writing racist and unsubstantiated drivel. None of the posts being deleted and discussed have been written in the spirit of debate and exchange of information.
STEEL,
Re-read your "article" on your trip to Cheektowaga... an article that created a rather interesting stir. WNY Media's Buffalo Pundit eloquently illustrated, on many different occasions, your inconstancies and arrogance on that topic.
Dull attacks? When have I ever "attacked" anyone? I think you have misconstrued what I have written. However, I will not apologize if for pointing out your inconstancies and having a different point of view - just because I ask a tough question or have a different point of view does not mean I'm attacking anyone or anything.
You have a blessed evening.
I could take most of the comments, even chuckle at the stupity of many. I have enjoyed the tounge in cheek and the dark hummor. What annoyes me are the few that are down right rude or attack other people using names but hiding themselves behind a false ID, using BRO as a bashing site, too afraid or sissy enough not to use their own name, knowing full well they are being slanderous...
Goustad,
Fact: Listening to you and your friends such as Nonono one would imagine that there is absolutely nothing of value in Buffalo. Why does it bother you so if BRO attempts to point out valuable things or the actions of people attempting to bring the city back to the kind of place it should be? BRO is not here to report crimes and house fires. Channel seven does a great job with that. Why is your criticism so often rooted in verbal assaults misinformation and insult. The writers on BRO that I know welcome constructive criticism but the gang style tactics that I have witnessed on here lately are far from constructive and end up being quite boring.
Fact: BRO does not post only pro puff pieces. I would say that most of my posts are geared toward showing unrealized potential in the city. Hardly puffery. By the way most of my stories have focused on places other than the Elmwood neighborhood. But so what if they were 100% Elmwood centric. Why should that bother you? If you have something to say about other parts of the city why not send in a story. It is so easy to throw a bomb into a conversation. Why not go out and get a story. I recently posted a story about a simple little green building that I find interesting. The first poster pointed out that the building was for sale (great information) Nonono then posts suggesting (falsely) and with no substantiation that I posted the piece as an add for the seller. His next post was about Jesus' penis and his final post was a defense of his action after one of his inane writings was deleted. None of these had any legitimate relationship to the story. In between Wizardofza suggests that the section of Franklin that the building sits on would make a great red-light district. None of this added anything to the conversation. All of it for what purpose? This is a small sample of what your gang has been up to. Certainly none of it was legitimate criticism of the original post. By the way no one at BRO has very suggested a story or directed me to write a story nor have they ever censored anything I chose to write
Fact: There are good things about Buffalo. There are good people in the city doing good things. There is great potential and there are major problems to solve. That is what BRO reports on. Why don't you join in instead of trying to tear down? If you think there is no reason to report anything good about Buffalo I suggest that you perhaps go to another site and perhaps think about moving someplace else. BRO and Buffalo are not for you in that case.
buffalopundit: "Troll-bation is something of which I've never heard. Also, I have an immunity to iocane powder."
who are you, the comic book store guy from the simpsons?
BTD - You are 80% of the problem on this site, with your silly verbal attacks and empty threats of violence. You are just a scared little insecure man. What would you do to keep yourself busy at 1:00 in the morning if you couldn't post several dozen comments under several names? You like the reaction, it obviously gives you some sort of enjoyment in your otherwise empty life.
You take your anonymous shots at Elena, Newell, or anyone else who posts here. Do you have the testicular fortitude to put yourself out there like they do? Do you have what it takes to open yourself up to that level of criticism, after all they put their names and reputations on the line for an anonymous worm like you to bash without any recourse. You find it funny, but we see right through you. You couldn't do what they do if you tried, so you mock them for being more successful and more famous than you.
I agree that you aren't anti-buffalo, and you aren't pro-buffalo, in fact you really aren't much of anything. You are the worst type of bully, one who hits, then runs and hides. You wouldn't say a fraction of what you post here if you had to put your name on it, so cut some slack to those who are brave enough to put their names on their articles.
very often the articles are poorly written and the prescribed topics are dull when a much more interesting topic emerges out of a few sharp and disruptive comments.
John Martin - again, dead on. Couldn't have recounted the life of BR any better.
marketrate - sorry, but people who run a blog about the goings-on in Buffalo aren't "brave" by any stretch of the imagination. Especially when a significant portion of the "writers" post under aliases to begin with. Talk about a poor choice of words...
And simply because they take the time to do what they do doesn't remove them from the realm of criticism, it puts them smack dab in the middle of it. If you're going to take the time and effort to express an opinion through a forum such as this, you're opening yourself up to criticism from all angles... and if the BR folks weren't prepared for it, then I just feel sorry for them.
It seems that with a star ranking system and an "Avoid User" utility, you gave the people the right to police their own community, as it should be. Deleting comments that are not libelous makes you look small and petty.
After all, who would have thought that a site founded upon a principle of parochial elitism and arrogance would create parochially arrogant, elitist, and condescending commenters?
There is frustration from a community who looks out their doors and sees a city and region that looks strikingly similar to the city that existed in 2005 when this site began detailing a "renaissance".
Sure, some politically connected developers have eked out a few renovations which feature heavy subsidies and/or government tenants and the never ending cycle of business openings and closings on Elmwood/Hertel provide enough fodder for a site. In the end, not much has REALLY changed in this area and the "renaissance", much like the much ballyhooed "county tax revolt" has fizzled. As a natural follow on, people (myself included) have taken this site to task for their myopic view on issues in the region.
You have created the problem and now you are trying to hide the symptoms.
With an ‘Avoid User’ and a ‘Report this’ button in every comment, this new policy seems like overkill to me. Upon first reading the post this morning, I instantly made the following comparison: I liken this decision to the three men in a room situation we are subject to with regard to decision making for NYS. Here we have 3 people in a room making decisions for the entire BRO community, of which commenters are a HUGE part.
Announcing this new policy before having this conversation (active input from commenters currently in progress in this thread) is also something that does not sit well with me. It is as if our reactions/opinions are (were) not of concern when crafting this reactionary policy.
I have been checking the thread periodically throughout the day and have made the following observations:
Many comments on this very thread could be edited out based upon the policy as explained in the post. For example, while I laughed aloud at the various Simpson’s Comic Book guy comments (dead on especially when re-read aloud), they were not on-topic and could potentially even be considered to be unsubstantiated claims about an individual.
Living Forge posted “Huzzah!” This does not contribute to the conversation, does it? So why is it still there?
No more foul language, but WTF is allowed? WTF!
Davvid had a valid point in his comment, but was snarkily responded to 8 minutes later by STEEL. Is STEEL’s comment valid for its subtlety or because it originated from one of BRO’s 3 men in a room? Perception is everything.
Terrapin Tim posted about liking the picture. Great, but does not contribute to the conversation. I could go on and on, but then the likelihood of this comment getting booted goes up and up, so I’ll stop soon, I promise.
Please, please, please do not delete this comment because then I will only have 2 strikes left, and well, who knows when I might slip up! And WTF (hey if pundit can do it and not get booted, then so can I, right?) do the stars and ratings mean anyway? Does one wish for more or less stars, higher or lower ratings? Do they signify anything? Anything at all?
PS: Elena also said in the original post:
I ask that all comments worthy of a strike be directed to me at elena@buffalorising.com.
Well, then have one of your techies direct the ‘Report This’ button to that address and be done with it.
How freakin lame. Can't even just admit he's wrong one (1) time and leave it at that, without bringing up some irrelevant point I didn't even mention and had nothing to do with. Jesus comments? WTF, that was nothing to do with gaustad either. Seriously, pardon my rant and count this as my Strike One if you want but this guy has a serious ego problem attributing his opinion as interchangable with fact, and then when totally nailed on it he has to right after backing down lash out about some 3rd party's unrelated 'Jesus comment' as if that justifies him writing something blatantly flase.
How about 'Sorry gaustad, I wrote something wrong about you.' Period. End of comment. Too hard?
Great! Thank you!
I like reading different sides to an issue...but 100 posts between a few people being horrible to each other and anyone that gets in their way? No way. And I've stopped forwarding articles too. Its not just the mean content either, its also about there being way too many posts to read.... Maybe everyone can spout (without being racist, swearing, hugely off topic, etc) and then BR can edit down to representative comments that stay online, and then cut off more postings to keep it readable.
Whatever BR does, I think it will be an improvement. Thanks again.
"You couldn't do what they do if you tried, so you mock them for being more successful and more famous than you."
I don't want to delve into "personal attacks" by any stretch of the imagination, but I think calling Newell or Elena famous or successful is a stretch by any interpretation.
VERY LITTLE actually should be edited from this site. If there is indeed damage or harm being inflicted here (an, as of yet, UNSUBSTANTIATED assertion), we have a well compensated police and court system for redress.
Where is the 'delete' button for those of us who experience sincere visceral agony when you laud the actions of individuals who leave a wake of debt, destruction, and broken promises in their wake? Our unrelenting sarcasm should have given you a clue that we exist and feel similarly abused and disillusioned here. Much to our 'trollish' credit, we didn't write you whining memos besieging you to come to the aid of our delicate sensibilities (and that of our expatriate family and friends - who, I might add, savor the very posts you condemn).
You and BR do not have, nor do you maintain uniform standards- you exercise capricious opinions, and edit with a stated bias to 'that which portrays Buffalo in a positive light'. I think I speak for the 'rat pack' when I say that this type of glib, upbeat, cordiality is also the modus operandi of grifters, flimflam men, and good deed doers that generally do more harm than good. Every inept politician and dim witted athelete-cum-savior that has bilked our region of cash, and dreams, has possessed a similarly sunny and optimistic disposition.
Journalists and responsible citizenry do not shrink from the full spectrum of human experience and emotion - and especially not in the name of 'progress' or 'commerce'. All this bodice ripping passion about harsh comments and emotional distress is laughable, and worse yet, offensive to those of us capable of reading comments in their 'entirety' and deriving meaning and intent from substance, not just style.
Flexing your editorial prerogatives will simply be clothing the emperor in more nakedness, and furthering the hallucination of a brilliant and splendidly costumed coterie of dunces.
Further, by stirring this tempest in a Beef-blog you bolster the distorted sense that our region is so brittle, so tenuous, so beleaguered, that an inflection or comment could cost us collectively- our future well being.
Now that, my dear friends in Charlotte - is truly negative, cynical, and small minded indeed!
Moderation is essential to any successful online discussion forum. Too many forums become cesspools of trolls and flames, while those forums and sites which can effectively manage user-generated content (ie, message board posts) tend to be much more successful.
It is really quite a shame to see some of the comments here, but it's not surprising. You'll see virtually the same type of comments made on any other forum about any other subject. Cars, sports, video games, computers, politics, etc. all have their trolls. From a moderation standpoint, it's best to eliminate them as quickly as possible. Ban them by username and IP as soon as they show up, and delete their posts. Do not allow them to establish a reputation or gain a following.
Troll-bation is something of which I've never heard. Also, I have an immunity to iocane powder.
A few thoughts/opinions on the new policy & BuffaloRising - 1) it's a thoughtful and sensible policy and time will show that it's also a good business decision - it will attract readers and commenters, not drive them away; 2) the policy is little more than any teacher enforces in the classroom or any dinner host expects of his guests; 3) BRO is a house built by Newell, Elena & others, and although they have invited everyone in, it is not the "town square" and they have every right to ask their guests to refrain from inappropriate language; 4) the stuff they are going after - threats of violence, racist or defamatory comments - isn't protected speech even if it is uttered in the middle of Niagara Square; and 5) I spend my days analyzing and poking holes in housing projects - the costs are too high, the design isn't going to work for the target audience, the market is too thin & the capture rate too high, the project can't support that much debt, etc. But the point of the exercise is to spend the first weeks or months working on the negatives so that the project gets built and is successful for the next 50 years. Notice the relationship between time spent focusing on the negative and the time spent on success.
It's the ability to see the negative, deal with it, and create the positive that defines success - in housing projects, and in cities, and in our personal lives. I am interested in a public dialogue with people who see the negatives, but don't feel compelled to dwell on them, but rather quickly transition to a discussion of solutions. I think there are a lot of talented and creative people in Buffalo and Western New York who want the same thing, and I am hopeful that this new policy will bring more of these people back to BuffaloRising.
All I can say is Thank You! The obnoxious comments, extreme negativity, personal attacks, etc all seem to be from the same small group. I'll certainly read more often when they are gone. Good riddance.
Pundit, Oh come on! The comments that BRO is talking about had nothing to do with any conversation or debate. BRO is not scared of debate. The arrogant hateful nonsense that these guys have been posting has been ruining the conversation.
BTW, "ECB", I still am "articulate", and can still "turn a phrase", but you are now merely a censor. That is your final calling and final disposition. Turn your attentions elsewhere, if you will; your irrelevance will always keep your bags packed.
We are not your elected officials, and these are not your tax dollars at work here. We are your hosts. Please refrain from wiping your mouth on the curtains, your feet on the couch.
In a conversation about conversation, nothing is off topic. Huzzah is a yes vote.
You will know you've 'slipped up' when you compose any of these: racial comments, obscenity, gratuitous foul language, threat of violence, and making unsubstantiated claims about an individual. Your well-adjusted guest shouldn't have trouble staying away from those things, as they are not a reflex. Well...maybe swearing is.
And there have been so many 'report comments' that they periodically get thrown in spam. They also go to several sources. I need to keep count now (for obvious reasons), so I'd like the alerts for any of the above infractions to be sent directly to me.
I know this is not what some of you want to see. I'm sure that getting off a few rounds on people anonymously is somehow cathartic for some of you, but that's not what we do here. You'll have to find another way to vent your anger.
I have commiserated with every respected person I know (and a lot I don't) who has asked us to do this. The votes (comments) aren't all in, but you can clearly see what consensus is. Let's keep the civil conversation going. That's all we ask.
I work with young people who are doing amazing things in local schools around combating racism, homophobia, etc. in our community. This seems like something that should be featured on BRO, especially since most of the students I work with are from the city. However, I would never subject those kids to the comments section.
My point is that it's not only the potential readers/commenters you are losing now, but also potential stories as well. Those of us working in the community would be much more willing to suggest story ideas if we felt certain that we were not subjecting those individuals to the type of comments that have become far too common here.
I'd like to see a more diverse offering of stories posted (like Marilyn R's work), and I hope this change is a move in that direction.
Firstly, the trolling of which BRO complains is a case of karma, or BRO reaping what it sows.
Seconly, deleting and editing comments to satisfy the deliciate sensibilities of a few, and subjecting them to the subjective whims of editors is a sure-fire way to kill any sort of online community. The only comments that ought be deleted are those that are patently libelous. Period.
Thirdly, the post implies that "trolls" are not "good citizens". Seems to me some of the people labeled as "trolls" are good citizens who have a different perspective on what is going on in Buffalo, and they sometimes use humor to get that point across. This is throwing out the baby with the bathwater.
Fourthly, being a "community" doesn't mean that everyone has to agree and give each other five stars and pat each other on the back for their amazing work and wonderful participation. People in a community bicker, argue, call the cops on each other, sue each other, disagree, yell, scream, and behave obnoxiously. To now sanitize a good-news site with only comments deemed acceptable by its editors is playing a game of make-believe.
This site began in - and with the viral support and promotion of - Buffalo's blogosphere. This decision, coupled with the earlier deletion of what passed for a blogroll, has completed Buffalo Rising's divorce from it. Why does that matter?
As co-founder George Johnson wrote for Placeblogger.com:
Before that night though, we were longtime fans of blogs, specifically ones that understood that the medium was all about conversation-a conversation between author and reader, author and commenter, commenter and commenter. We wanted ours to be a conversation among writers for the magazine-a chance for readers to see what those writers spoke about in between issues and an opportunity to engage in that dialogue and perhaps shape what those writers wrote.
and
On it's best days, the discussion on Buffalo Rising was like a great cocktail party: memes we started were picked up and extended and expanded and debated. In posts about real estate, brokers, property owners, developers and investors had conversations that lead to offline commerce. Controversial civic and neighborhood issues were debated ardently and Buffalo Rising became the forum for issues from governance to the built environment to development to whether restaurant bars should have tvs and the ethics of foie gras.
That is now being jettisoned. And for what? So that an isolated person feels better about sending a link to a friend in Charlotte?
Well, Elena, Newell, et al., when you finally perfect your echo chamber, the sound you hear will not be your own voice, but silence. Perhaps there are 300 actively obsequious subscribers to your particular brand of civic boosterism, but they'll have to dig deep so you can visit the Village Beer Merchant and expense that next round of hoagies and brews. Your advertisers will hang on for a while, but at the end of the day (or the fiscal year) your site isn't a charitable deduction. Now, as to your claim that my "toupee accusation" was off topic, it wasn't. When you post a studio portrait of a public figure in the context of a hagiographical puff piece, that person's physical likeness becomes fair game. Just as Stalin's would....oops, we know where that leads. Furthermore, I merely pointed out that what I was witnessing, was the presence of a "wig", and even complimented the hairpiece as a "high quality merkin". "Accuse" makes my motives seem sinister. Is that how you filter anyone who doesn't play along? BRO is amusing for this reason. I'll have to email my elderly grandmother in Charlotte about it, so she can enjoy the amusing antics of a very insecure and overwrought little claque.
I think we will see what conversations look like shortly. A dissenting point of view is much different than the kid in the back of the class acting like a clown looking for attention and disrupting everything when the peanut gallery then has to jump in.
I think there is a big distinction bewtween a dissenting opnion and that which is being targeted for editing.
@Marketrate: Unless your full name is Market Rate, criticizing BTD's use of an anonymous screen name is sort of the pot calling the kettle black, no? I don't see any information in your BRO profile identifying who you really are.
As for BTD's "fame", it seems that the last several comments you've left have all been directed to BTD. Maybe you just have a crush on him/her.
A lot of people who have been staying away 'dared' to comment today, and I hope they keep doing it. I never want negative commenters intimidating people into silence here. Nastiness stops a conversation. Censoring nasty will keep it going.
Horvath:
We have policy about racial comments, obscenity, gratuitous foul language, threat of violence, and making unsubstantiated claims about an individual. Off topic refers to going after the author with no regard to the topic of the post.
That's all. Everything else is a go. No worries on actual discussion of the topic.
Alan: Did you say I troll-bated? You just reminded me of one of my favorite characters from Princess Bride. Better check that goblet.
Someone will ALWAYS have a different opinion than your own. They should be free to express those views in a forum that allows uncensored comments, as many sites do. If a site creates a policy to better monitor site content and make it a better product, then that is fine. It seems BRO is supposed to be a positive site, with creative, constructive comments, not slander and off-the-cuff ranting, so they have every right to keep it that way, as it is their entity.
Trolls love creating "heat" on many sites (Youtube, abcnews, yahoo) as some have mentioned. Personal email attacks that people have received because of their comments on BRO are expected. It's so much easier to express yourself when you don't see the repercussions in person. These commenters wouldn't DARE say these things to someone's face or if associated with their real names. You just have to treat the personal attacks and "trolling" as you would regular spam or junk mail. Delete.
Nice job ECB. Keep it up.
Wiz:
The comments here are all on topic so far as this is a conversation about solutions to our conversation.
Off topic examples:
A post about a person who's doing great things in politics, and someone accuses him of wearing a toupee.
A post about someone doing a rehab, and someone casting aspersions on his sexuality and physical attributes.
A post about a dance school and a first comment that turns into a fight about men wearing tights.
A post about anything at Buff State that devolves into an attack about "a minority hire".
I'll buy the advice about quality over quantity. But really, don't worry so much about the off-topic stuff. It will be instantly recognizable and blatant.
I'm for it. I once wrote an article about a mentally-challenged young man that was flamed. I remember stating that I was glad he didn't have a computer to have seen it all. The racism and sophmoric comments are not necessary and should not have to be allowed. If we wish to live in a civil society, then we must present our platforms in a civil manner. It's like the law. There are so many who contend it can be stretched to fit their needs, but once stretched over and over again, our society breaks down further. (Gretchencerccone - pm me regarding your students)
My personal property has been threatened on this site in the past. A neighbor also used this site as a way to denigrate me and now that he has moved, he has also changed his moniker to try to do it again. But, that is all personal, and I'm one tough old broad, so I'll carry on with what I percieve to be an excellent site for attempting to see Buffalo Rise from ashes.
BTW, look at SUWNY, you'll see they have revamped their position on how postings should be made. This all started on January 1. Seems they're just as tired of it all, as well. BRO is not a SLAM book, we should all act as adults, that's the way to success.
Okay, holding my breath and waiting for it.
EBC, I love the fact you take the lead on this issue, you already know my view of this topic. Unfortunately all the comments seen here are gratuitous, we a;; enjoy being noticed. Many of us look better with cloths on, but covering up what could be viewed as ugly and offensive is good.
Perry - great point.
you could announce that Microsoft is moving their worldheadquarters to Buffalo, creating 10,000 jobs of $100K or more...and the same old BuffaloRising people would just complain and go off on their own tangents
Your're right, the same old usual suspects here would complain if Microsoft didn't build right up to the street with 1st floor retail and upstairs residential, or if they had too much surface parking and curb cuts enabling the car culture. Not to mention their carbon footprint, and of course them not being locally owned. And if they put their new headquarters in Amherst...
I agree this place has gone to the trolls if some dont see it then they are free to disagree but lets face it you would have to be friggin blind! While im not sure this is even possible a better idea in my opinion would be to have a "dump bin" set up so that off topic or slightly inappropriate posts can be sent there and that readers who wish to click on the "dump bin" can do so if they want to see items that have been dumped for a particular topic. Obviously racist,inflamatory,hatred could just be deleted as it is now. This would give the readers who are sick of reading the petty poster to poster arguments a way to read relavant posts without having the site have the feeling of big brother controlling what we see. While i would rather see the changes suggested take place rather than no change at all.....i fear that if evrything becomes to nice than ill just feel that the sight is strictly promotion without true dialouge. At least if its in the dump bin i can go diving for the trash where ther is sometimes some good bits of truth.
Paul:
No suggestions yet, just questions. In terms of space, what is small to medium in square feet? In terms of not wanting a storefront, do you need foot traffic?
Did you do a comparison study? Are you concerned with demographics and geographical location in terms of roadways, the international border?
Are you working with a realtor like Hastings and Cohn? I'll bet people could help you here if we knew more.
Shake:
Check the Coit House post. Even with all sorts of holes where the worst of it was, I think you can make it out. Regular readers recognized it as hatred toward an individual and an organization. But let's not go around just yet screaming about the sky falling. We'll play them as they lay. The readers will dictate this; I'm going to listen.
This is a problem that has been around a long time. I am not sure why some people enjoy trolling so much. It can become burdensome to keep track of off topic attacks and repeat offenders. You might try the disemvoweler to save yourselves some time and energy.
"Glad to hear it. I went into the Village Beer Merchant last night and mentioned Buffalo Rising and the guy working there said he saw that someone complained about the number of articles written on his place. I was so embarrassed I didn't know what to say to the guy."
We should all be embarrassed that the tiny crumb of good news that is one store opening in a region of 1MM people deserves in depth coverage of 10 articles. It makes us all look small.
I don't think that Lorne Opler fancies himself a woman, ChocolateShake. As for wealthy or white, I'd think you'd need to ask him about those things yourself. I've never had the pleasure of meeting him face to face.
I'm just glad to see comments from commentors that I haven't seen in a while or have never seen before. I hope that happens more often.
Now that is an example of a great comment that is critical and constructive and also adds to the conversation
I don't know, George - I mean bizcomplete. You tell me. You were on the other end of those conversations. ^^^
Also, Artvoice has done loads of great stories exposing the nasty political climate that Brown and Casey have established in City Hall. Most recently, highlighting the retaliatory action the city has taken against the woman who had the audacity to put in an insurance claim because Byron Brown's kid clocked her car after he "borrowed" the family SUV. It's interesting journalism that no one else is really reporting on. Hardly "hack" pieces.
And Steel, I don't think or know enough about you to hate you or like you. Also, I'm not in second grade anymore.
""Someone else got the ironic intent of my screen name (YESYESYES) and is posting under yesyesyesyes. Obviously I am not the only one that knows who you are and is not afraid to call you out. ""
yes, at least one other person was able to deduce your fiendishly cryptic irony !
first of all, seven yes's do not make you 'right'. second, please define you meaning of the word "afraid"? you make unfounded, indefensible allegations, all based on hear say using an anonymous screen identity? your buddy made a homophobic slur, which added nothing to the discussion at hand.... which, interestingly enough, is about BR's editorial prerogative to edit slurs of this nature(?). some of us would rather tolerate such nonsense as the price of free speech that our great democracy was founded on, and not silence unpleasant or inconvenient opinions as is commonly done in totalitarian states. before any radical editorial policies are initiated it would well serve all concerned if the staff did some reading on the traditional dangers inherent in censorship.
I never claimed the least affection for Coit house. what i care about is fair play, and transparency and accountability in public, not-for-profit groups. 300K was squandered on the house, and aside from the roof, added little to the value of the structure. according to Gerhardt Yaskow the current owner, he replaced the entire heating system, which was also done by the Allentown Association - so that is what i would call money well wasted. much energy and money was funneled through, and vouched for by, the AA, whose mission statement claims that it exists for the improvement and protection of an ENTIRE community, not a single pet project. actually the mission statement says NOTHING about rescuing and saving property through its ownership, and in as much the entire project was a misuse of a public organization.
""I cant believe how he turns every article turns into a bashing. Really give it a rest, always bringing up things from so long ago. You had a grudge with one or two people, 3 years ago, who cares!!! ""
i post on a variety of subjects on BR. it was ECB, the editor, who first made reference here to the Coit posts, not I. you have chosen an identity for no other reason than to make slavish reference to my existence, and post about little other than me............you might want to take your own advise, its beginning to look like you have an angry, ugly crush on me.
BTD:
I've decided to do weekly troll readings like this: http://youmakemetouchyourhandsforstupidreasons.ytmnd.com/
becker, you are ridiculously naive. Let me help you understand how politics works, kid. A politician who is happy with the way things are in Buffalo is not going to make positive changes. Do you understand? Good! Now, go print Elect BuffaloPundit tee-shirts and stop posting such moronic topics!
Pundit, (and Chocolate too),
I wrote one story critical of the suburbs. ONE! I have written 100's , H U N D R E D S ! of stories critical of the city and yet you focus on the one critical suburban story as if no one should ever say anything bad about the suburbs. Pundit, read through your comments on that post. You agreed with my assertion that that area of Cheektowaga is ugly and you defended it as the way it should be. As if there is no room for improvement. Why no defense of the city when I say mean things about Buffalo?
Newell recently focused on the horribly ugly intersection of Elmwood and Hertel. I did not see either you or Chocolate jumping in complaining about how Newell was being mean toward the city. So we can say bad things about the city but nothing bad about the suburbs? Check that - Suburbs perfect, no critical commentary allowed, city is crap - pile on as you like.
By the way I also did a positive piece on suburban areas which focused on the beaches (American and Canadian) in WNY. I don't recall you commenting on that one. Unfortunately I can not find the link.
But anyway, Why does it bother you if Newell's or my interests are in the city? I really don't get it. I post what I want. No one tells me what I can and can not write. You write about mean car dealerships and advocate for waterfront highways. I am interested in urbanism and architecture. To each his own. If people like it they like it if they don't, they don't. I like the city and that is what I write about. Personnaly, I find most of your posts dull and I just skip over them. I don't spend all day complaining about the dull posts or lack of any posts at all on most of the WNYMedia pages. Maybe you should bring Nonono and BTD on board and liven things up a bit over there.
This place sure has gone to hell...
I am sort of glad that BuffaloPundit didn't win his bid for legislator if this is the way he really feels about WNY.
There is a lot of backstory behind what I've written, and this particular metatopic. Happy to explain it via email click here to do so.
If nonono/itsHUGE/P.M. really gave a "care" about the Coit House, he and his SAINTED partner could have bougt it. They bought and renovated a house on little Summer at about the same time it was for sale. The Coit House was a bargain when it sold 3 YEARS ago for under 100G, especially since the AA put so much into necissary repairs to the property. I cant believe how he turns every article turns into a bashing. Really give it a rest, always bringing up things from so long ago. You had a grudge with one or two people, 3 years ago, who cares!!! He rented an apartment on Irving and used to terrorize those neighbors in real life. I guess we should be happy he is only an "avoid user" button away on this site. I used to be proud of this site but all the negative comments made me stop telling friends about BRO. We really should show Buffalo in a better light to out of towners and locals. I applaud ECB for her new policy.
STEEL, you don't seem too popular right about now to anyone, why?
Eisenm11 - I don't believe I have ever heard anything significant out of you, other than one or two sentences crticizing others posts becuase you don't agree with content.
Chocolate Shake, you are an asset to Buffalo....just not STEEL's Buffalo.
Surprise surprise. They've done this for a long time anyway. Now they're just being public about it. I'm done with "BR"
Wow, almost 200 comments and you're all still at it!
There are obviously a lot of intelligent people who read and comment on the posts here at BRO. Just imagine what could have been done in the name of progress if the amount of time, energy and brainpower devoted to commenting on BRO was directed elsewhere. Talk (commenting) is cheap and useless for the most part. The only thing it does is make us feel a little better about ourselves for having been heard. It doesn't change a thing about the real issues at hand for Buffalo.
Let's not place an exaggerated importance on the value of commenting on a blog. It's all just a lot of hot air, really.
with respect and affection - perhaps this could go to trial and have a jury and a judge weigh in on the arguments, with a lawyer representing each opinion? I think the constant arguments against BRO are better suited before a jury of peers, within the proper contraints of due process, yes?
I weary of the incessant pontificating, from every direction. but perhaps I'm biased against the hihgly-educated using their training to intellectually bully through their personal points?
Buffalopundit - are you serious about the positive news stories in Artvoice and Block Club? Surely you must be kidding. There are approximately 250 words in Block Club and it comes out every two months. There are 3-10 stories a day here and a monthly magazine of mostly regurgitated stuff. And Artvoice covers City of Buffalo news? Really? I mean, sure Moses will send some writer to type up a hack piece on whatever politician is in the spotlight but covering any real development? come on now. Though I do like Bruce Jackson's stuff.
And I suspect if someone took the time to check the last 500 posts on here and see what % are about Elmwood, the % would line up with the % of city commerce that takes place on the only decent street in the city. Call it 25% or so? wtf?
also, does BR copy you on their mission statement or something? how is that you know what it is? because they said something 2 years ago and you're sticking with that? i mean, sometimes people change shit, rt?
Damp:
I remember when I realized that you spent a lot of time on this site, were articulate and had a clever way of turning a phrase. I emailed you and asked if you'd like to write for us.
First you made a joke about turning away readers, then you said it would be too hard because you live out of town.
I tried to get you to be one of us, so forget your us and them theory.
Control freak defensiveness? It could well describe your reaction to my pronouncement that we're taking our website back from the trolls.
Buffalopundit: To clarify, I should have inserted another break in my post; it wasn't meant to be entirely in response to you. It's funny that you mentioned Block Club. I was going to say I was glad that Buffalo Rising isn't like Block Club, but I resisted the temptation to attack it. Anyway, it's quite possibly the worst publication I've ever read. I find it to be excessively advertising-filled, poorly written, and uninteresting. But hey, it's all-WNY-inclusive and it's glossy, so I guess it's good.
The reason I don't think the suburbs need any additional promotion within WNY has nothing to do with media exposure, and everything to do with the general mindset and experiences of a large number of people in the region. In a couple of the places I've worked, I've been one of only two or three people (out of 75-100) who lived in the city. From talking to many of these people, I've found that a good number rarely if ever venture into the city, and some of their perceptions of Buffalo are just mind-boggling. I'd have to think that if we're a region of 1 million, and Buffalo has 275,000 people, the "Sandy Beach People" or some less-extreme form of them are probably in the majority.
John Martin - dead on. But that's what you get these days at Elmwoo... er... BUFFALO Rising.
If comments are becomming a problem because of racist, homophobic, and other offensive content, perhaps only registered members should be allowed to post, as they are on many forums such as this throughout the web. That way, anyone posting threats, ad hominem attacks, blatantly racist/homophobic/incendiary remarks and the like can have posting privileges suspended or completely revoked if they become habitual line-steppers.
And to those holding BR to any "journalistic" standards, don't hold your breath... despite the introduction of the print version, this place continues to be a blog/forum for people with an agenda, and in no way resembles anything "journalistic." There's nothing wrong with that at all, it just is what it is... the blog of several very optimistic, enthusiastic people obsessed with a small slice of Buffalo, NY.
Perhaps the alternative BR people should be aiming for is a comment-free site that occasionally prints reader submissions, linked to a message board where people can discuss articles, problems, solutions, etc.
Cheers! FINALLY!
I like having an open conversation that is positive (what happened in the recycling story) and comments that can lead to positive change in Buffalo. Personally, I am sick ot death of reading the open and public personal battle between a group of people. A good, humourous comment once in a while is fun to read.
I think this is an excellent decision!
If a commenter is being racist or sexist, don't other commenters criticize that and give it a smack? If someone is being a racist tool, isn't it better to keep it there and either criticize or ridicule the hell out of it?
Adios BTD...Pundit will have you drop your nonsense over at his site for a juicy discussion on race, sex and cars.
Cars? Yes. Race and sex? WTF?
@ Ben: And yes, I am the comic book store guy from the Simpsons. Because I'm the one who invoked the Princess Bride.
I see the off-topic policy has already been jettisoned. What a joke.
ECB - BS!! I've had dozens of comments removed for not being pro-Buffalo!!
Please do not lie to these people - it gives BRO piss-poor journalism credentials!! Go ahead people and make a comment about the fact that Byron actually fired dozens of whites and replaced them with blacks and next thing you know - or a comment about how you can't get a project without donating to his war chest and watch...poof - your comment mistically disappears!!!
BTD:
You have two strikes today. Both of them were for obscenities. One was over-use of the verb in caps. The other describing a sex act.
You have not been deleted for being anti Buffalo. You can make accusations all you want, and they don't have to be factual, like the one above because you're not a journalist.
But one more comment that is obscene, racial, violent, etc...and you're gone. If you come back as any derivative of your name, you're gone.
I have a new writer who will be posting family events. If a young family can't see your comments...you're gone.
"BTD: You have not been deleted for being anti Buffalo. You can make accusations all you want, and they don't have to be factual, like the one above because you're not a journalist."
Elena, you think you are a journalist? What the hell was that piece of illiterate nonsense? Atop of that, realize that you write for Buffalo Rising! You are no Connie Chung!! Ha! Newell was very good at selling trinkets on Elmwood and playing Ultimate Frisbee. His journalism skills are adapting to "quite good" status. You, however, my friend, are NO journalist! You are waaaay over-board on this one, kid!
-And, I never said I was anti-Buffalo! I said I wasn't pro-Buffalo...please give yourself a "F" for the day and consider writing children's books...
I'm glad this is finally happening. I've resisted many times the urge to vent my frustrations at what has become a stage for some people to show how clever they are at bashing everyone. At first I must say that I was a bit leary at the thought of censoring any postings but as I read the comments to this story, some of the offenders seem to have made a case against themselves...just look at some of the immaturity abound in these posts. No need to call anyone out by name. It's obvious who the offenders are and have been.
Good riddance. Now let's get back to enjoying the articles (I could care less who they are written by) and enjoying some healthy debate about them and offering constructive criticism and comments.
Kudos to BRO for trying to keep it above the board when others couldn't. I was floored when reading "those" comments that anyone think they were appropriate for this forum. Freedom of speech was inteded to permit discourse or an open exchange of ideas in a free community. It does not give you free reign to say whatever you like and tell others to deal with it. My rights don't give me the "right" to trample on others and put them down.
I would have no problem having my e-mail validated prior to being allowed to post if that meant that this community discussion could be used as a great way for concerned, happy, or frustrated people interested in our city to share ideas openly. That is the purpose of free speach, journalism and our intended Constitutional rights.
Goustad
By the way I am not suggesting that you can not criticize the city. I am not saying take it or leave it. I am just saying that you sound very unhappy and perhaps would be more fulfilled someplace else.
I stopped sharing links to BRO a long time ago because the comments were so embarassingly stupid. I wished there was a way to just link to the article without the comments below. I welcome the long overdue effort to cleanup the site, but having an article-only link would still be desirable I think...
@STEEL:
I guess "unsubstantiated drivel" is somewhat subjective. From what I can gather from that thread, someone indicated that you can't get business done in Buffalo unless you know somebody. Well, it sure does seem that people who are well-connected politically, or donate money to the right politician or political club get preferential treatment. Especially in the Casey Brown administration.
As for the racism, that's just garbage. I personally think it reflects badly on the person who posted, and no one else. Deleting it accomplishes nothing. It doesn't chastise the writer, and it doesn't let others see what a racist tool he/she might be.
But what's telling about this thread is that "off topic" comments are contained herein, but have yet to face removal. What gives? Is the policy dead on arrival? Is there a double-standard at play? I mean, if there's going to be a policy, enforce it consistently and evenhandedly.
My favorite cry is the freedom of speech. You are posting on a privately run site. Where does freedom of speech come into play? You are free to create your own site and state your opinions etc. Double post your BRO responses on your own blog to show what important information big bad BRO is editing.
Where's the crime in asking and then enforcing an on topic conversation? It is their site. Start AnarchyBuffaloSinking.com and watch your servers crash over the massive influx of people looking for perpetual Zuba and Sabres jokes, two sentance generic slams, off topic posts to carry over old post arguments or 15 post long inside jokes. There is a multitude of places to comment on the internet. Why does everyone have to accept every single comment regardless of its relevance or intent?
I've been part of too many forums that start out with a nice core of people interested in the topic at hand. They will never all agree but their passion on the subject shows and thus they are respected. After the site starts to grow you are bound to start to get the attantion whores that are there to stir things up and then start to cry about free speech when you ask them for some behavior that we ask of our grade school children.
I think we all want to see passion here, be it pro or con to the subject at hand. I've had some nice back and forth diasagreements here with some posters without it degrading to name calling or personal attacks. Clean up the crap. There is no reason that a majority of threads need to be filled with the same off topic crap.
What about a grave yard thread where off topic posts can be moved to appease the "freedom of speech protectors"? Then all the debate on "why was this deleted" etc could be in one spot. Or could a jump be created in the thread? As in all off-topic posts would still be in the thread but moved to an area below the "what do you think" and "related articles". Then the "all important information" would still around.
It's a shame that we can not control oursleves, but we are human so it is to be expected.
I don't see anywhere in this thread anything by Elena about deleting opposing views. Why would you bring that up?
No, ChocolateShake, moderation based on content does not appear to be the objective, only moderation based on presentation. Criticism and disagreement, when presented in a mature manner would be welcome, and if you are interested in serious debate, good moderation is quite important.
Thank you Atwater. I also admire you as a person and fellow blogger. It is always refreshing to read your comments.
ChocolateShake, you are an intellectual. I question weather the people you argue with even comprehend your words.
{Deleted for not echoing the affluent white yuppie Elmwood Village sentiments}
Are we now limited to only that which could be uttered on Sesame Street and is approved by a velvet Elmwood Village version of La Costra Nostra?
OK - marketrate and others, you need to realize that their are many types of people in Buffalo and in the world. Everyone doesn't share your view points on every topic. I disagree with the "poisitive attitude will get us there" belief. I believe in never being satisfied. Never satisfied is a quote form our city's one-time wealthiest man; recently deseased, Bob Rich, Sr.
You have the option to report this and/or delete it. It's your site Newell and you gave Elena the journalistic freedom to add/delete as she wishes. However if any of you want to meet to discuss city topics, I will be at Filippos on Hertel @ 7pm. My name is Joe. That's right, the wizard is willing to come from behind the curtain and I'm willing to back up my beliefs. Please do stop by.
Now, go ahead and delete this, Elena, as you most certainly will. I'm done with your crummy site - it only frustrates me to a point that I consider moving back to Tampa every time I'm on.
JohnMartin, RisingDamp666, nonono, I'll miss you guys. gaustad - see you for dinner @ 7p. I'm in the mood for meatballs and gravy.
Elena:
One wonders why, in a thread that you started with a post decrying trolls, you would post such blatant trollbait?
Your attempt to smack me down as being an apologist for racism, violence, obscenity, and "unsubstantiated claims" (which I assume means defamation), is a miss.
Why? Because none of that has anything to do with this email from which you quoted:
One of my dearest friends lives in Charlotte and I will often send her links and interesting articles. Incredible negativity! I can understand disagreeing with something but lately it's just a continuous slap-down and especially Newell bashing. The guy tries to do so much good for the city and people cannot even find an ounce of respect or thankfulness, disgusting!
Negativity. "Slap-down". Newell bashing. Lack of thankfulness. Then the next e-mail advocates for an "on-topic only" policy. You then go on to expand your list of no-nos to "off-topic".
Also, with regard to the "pontificate" remark - I see what you did there!
By using that word, you backhandedly called me a pompous and arrogant. Maybe I am, but in your own thread about troll-deterrence, you went ahead and insulted someone who left a pretty legitimate comment. Doesn't that run counter to the earlier plea for civility and on-topic-idity?
It's hilarious! You delete anything you don't like! BRO, what are you afraid of? That we'll see you are poser journalists?
"This group that you speak of appears very articulate and successful. Judging from what I have read, they understand business and seem very frustrated that they are being held back by people like yourself. "
This was a point of mine above. What I can't understand is why they need to reduce themselves a majority of the time if for nothing more than to incite or derail the conversation.
Also why after 150 post are people still complaining about deleting opposing comments. opposing comments are all over every post. This is not the issue. To over-react and reduce it to such it pointless except to stir up more crap. Opposing views are welcome and add to the conversation. It's the "Buffalo will always suck" "Leave now Loser's" "to the side walk!"(or current catch phrases thrown around to incite/mock) etc etc that deter the conversation.
Though pretty much everything that is to be said, pry has been said here. Shall see what future posts hold for us...
Glad to hear it. I went into the Village Beer Merchant last night and mentioned Buffalo Rising and the guy working there said he saw that someone complained about the number of articles written on his place. I was so embarrassed I didn't know what to say to the guy.
I'll take the Atwater House challange...Goose...find me a postive comment that you made about Buffalo in the last...let's say two months...maybe something about how the people in Buffalo are so obsessed with the Sabres that they don't read books...that was a good one!
JohnMartin, the issue is not disagreement, it is trolling. There is a substantive difference between pointing out why a project is flawed, or some other legitimate criticism and making constant racist posts or simply insulting people.
I think a lot of people would agree with me that besides BTD Buffalo Pundit is the most negative person on BRO. I challenge anyone to find one postive comment made by pundit regarding BRO. I realize that you have your own blog and are quasi competing here, but Newell or Elena for as far as i know, have never said anything negative on your blog. Anyone else agree?
Chocolate,
By the way I have never posted anything that could be described as hatred for Cheektowaga. If that is your interpretation of that post I am sorry but Cheektowaga was simply used as an example of how our physical environment has been degraded by current architectural and planning standards. I pointed out in the comments thread that the same kind of thing has happened in the city. A large number (probably a majority) of my posts have been directed at bad things done in the city as well and yet you do not describe them as "hatred" I have never seen you come running to the defense of the city when I point out the bad stuff. Is Cheektowaga somehow sacrosanct?
It is odd that you point out racism and prejudice in your posts while lumping groups of people such as rich yuppie whites together as some kind of unified block. Inconsistent, wouldn't you say? In a way you sound like someone BRO would welcome as a writer. It is absolutely true that BRO is looking for a broad spectrum of writers from throughout the city. You can participate or you can hide behind dull insults and attacks.
Pundit,
I can honestly say that Newell has never given me any rules for posting. As for pitting populations against each other you should reread you own posts and I did not say I skip over your Blog. I said I skip over most of what you write. I don't dwell on the stories that don't interest me.
To get back on point your debate and counterpoint in the Cheektowaga post was perfectly legitimate and bares no relationship at all to the problem posts that have been rampant on BRO lately. The only reason I am lumping you with the racist Neanderthals ( Your phrase) is that you have come to their defense. I am certain that if they treated WNYM to the same type barrage you would find need to do something about it.
http://blog.pentagram.com/archives/PS_Blog_Sm.jpg - Maybe you guys should take a look at this, it's how the Internet works.
@STEEL:
I wrote one story critical of the suburbs. ONE! I have written 100's , H U N D R E D S ! of stories critical of the city and yet you focus on the one critical suburban story as if no one should ever say anything bad about the suburbs.
No - you were wrong with this argument then, and you're wrong now. You're a better architect than debater.
The mission of BRO is not to write anything about the suburbs, period. I'm quite glad that you and Newell and whoever the hell else wants to call attention to uglyness in the city limits. That's well within your prerogative and BRO's beat, and is in no way controversial. But anything outside the city limits (ok, over a block or two outside city limits) is verboten on here, and always has been. So, when you slam a suburban intersection, ugly as it might be, and then insinuate that it's indicative of all the suburbs' collective ugliness, I'll call you on that. I don't know why you're whining about it.
Pundit, read through your comments on that post. You agreed with my assertion that that area of Cheektowaga is ugly and you defended it as the way it should be. As if there is no room for improvement. Why no defense of the city when I say mean things about Buffalo?
Because typing "wow, you're right, Steel" is hardly worth my time to type, because there's no discussion there.
Newel recently focused on the horribly ugly intersection of Elmwood and Hertel. I did not see either you or Chocolate jumping in complaining about how Newel was being mean toward the city. So we can say bad things about the city but nothing bad about the suburbs? Check that - Suburbs perfect, no critical commentary allowed, city is crap - pile on as you like.
Nice logical leap there, but you jumped too far by half.
BRO's mission is: Suburbs? what's that? City? we're all over it.
Yet when the suburbs are discovered - Columbus-like - by BRO writers, it almost always is the result of one of five things:
1. The one block rule;
2. By accident;
3. Via loophole (a suburban business participated in a city-located event);
4. Potential or actual advertiser (Smart of Buffalo Clarence; and
5. The suburbs are filled with ugly people in their ugly cars driving around in their ugly built environment.
Number 4 is distinctly unhelpful.
By the way I also did a positive piece on suburban areas which focused on the beaches (American and Canadian) in WNY. I don't recall you commenting on that one.
Didn't see it.
Unfortunately I can not find the link.
And I guess I never will.
But anyway, Why does it bother you if Newel's or my interests are in the city? I really don't get it. I post what I want. No one tells me what I can and can not write.
Go ahead and do a piece about a store opening in East Aurora or the nice job Batavia did on its City Hall. I dare you. From jumpstreet, hyperlocal has been described as "city only". Do I have to write my Sandy Beach analogy for the 5th time for you to get why it bothers me?
You write about mean car dealerships and advocate for waterfront highways. I am interested in urbanism and architecture. To each his own. If people like it they like it if they don't, they don't. I like the city and that is what I write about. Personnaly, I find most of your posts dull and I just skip over them. I don't spend all day complaining about the dull posts or lack of any posts at all on most of the WNYMedia pages. Maybe you should bring Nonono and BTD on board and liven things up a bit over there.
Yes, I know, Steel. You're quite witty and clever, and an insult hurled my way, or lumping me in with people you consider to be racist neanderthals, is all you've really got left. I'm glad you skip over my blog - although you're perfectly happy to leave trolling comments there, ironically. Very little of it deals with issues that matter to you.
I post about all sorts of things dealing with all aspects of what affects WNY - as a whole - for the better, and for the worse. You can denigrate it as being all about "mean car dealerships" - a Geek post, incidentally - and "advocate for waterfront highways", which is so disingenuous as to be comical.
But over the past 4 1/2 years, I've written about a lot of stuff - some trite, some important, and some for BRO - that never, ever attempts to pit one population against another.
But honestly, in the end, I can be nothing but proud to be insulted and minimized by someone like you.
Buffalopundit: Do you think that BRO should be required to post about One Eyed Jacks and Kentucky Greg's?
Not at all. Like I've said over and over, BRO can write about whatever its little heart desires. I used those as examples to underscore the "one block rule" I mentioned earlier.
I appreciate that BRO focuses on the city. That may seem exclusionary to some people, but if not for BRO, where would I go to hear about what's happening in Buffalo other than drive-by shootings, arsons, and the latest poverty ranking?
Artvoice and Block Club cover the city and the suburbs without being reflexively negative about either one.
Focusing on positive things is not the same as ignoring negative things, and I don't think there's any shortage of sources for negative news about Buffalo for those who are interested.
I didn't bring up the lack of negative stories, so I don't know why you are.
Honestly, I don't think the suburbs need any additional promotion within WNY.
Why not? If you're not aware of the regionally inclusive writings at Artvoice or Block Club, I am unsure where your underlying insinuation of overexposure (or adequate exposure) of the suburbs comes from.
Also, I don't agree that BRO focuses only on the Elmwood Village. There have been tons of posts about businesses and happenings in other areas, like my hometown of Black Rock.
I don't think I said "only". If I said anything, it would have been the more accurate "predominately".
ECB --- Thank you for finally posting up a very important fact that has been happening on this site. Since I have been reading and following BRO since June, the quality of comments has declined. Hopefully this will increase the quality of comments, minus the slams on race, etc... etc...
al-alo - It would be great to have a BRO party, which I fully intend on going to. It should be at Casa-di-Pizza, Pearl St or somewhere a bit more reasonable, agreed. It would be great to meet to meet some others who also love Buffalo and want to help to make it a better place to live, work and play.
Personally, I fully intend on continuing my efforts to also make Buffalo a better place.
J. Hall
Thank you, Elena and Newell for attempting to bring BR back to the forum I loved and shared with so many others. The analogy of us being visitors to your 'home' is a good one. Unfortunately, I'm afraid that if I invited total stangers who could hide behind a mask and remain totally anonymous, some of them WOULD wipe their mouths on my curtains! I really don't know how these things are set up but is there a way to do 2 versions of BR? A stories only version and a different version of stories and comments? (Its' also interesting that as this conversation has evolved the # of people I have avoided have taken over-as I scroll through the comments, they have gone from 'tan' to 'grey'.)
Wow. Are we outing people now? We could definitely have fun with that.
Once you spoke to me, I would have been faced with the task of substantiating your claims. Once substantiated, they are printable. I would have talked to the people you directed me toward and some you didn't. I would have found the truth, yours or otherwise, or at least printed what was lobbed back and forth. What I was telling you is that I wasn't going to just print what you told me without some corroboration and a possible solution.
Does that sound like a waste of time? When you didn't respond, I made the assumption that you didn't want me to find the story. I assumed you wanted to continue to vent what I mistook for hatred. In your silence, I made assumptions.
I must have read you wrong. I am more than sincere, and you have my contact info. But if I'm going to go after this, I need real names of real people.
Right now, MMiller makes the most sense, and I'm jumping off this thread to expend some forward moving energy.
nonono:
Concerning your comments about the Coit House, I contacted you and asked you to fill me in on what you knew. You emailed me back and asked who I was. I explained my initials and said that I was the Managing Editor of BRM. You never mailed me back.
There I was, ready to collect your story--which is the other side you keep calling for--and you didn't want to put it out there in plain language.
So I will call Rich Tobe. At least I know who he is.
Lastly, the Editrix moniker doesn't bother me. If you are who people on the Coit thread say you are, I believe my editing skills helped you out last fall when you neglected to mention an important person in a post I wrote for you. Edits are your friend.
I'm dying! How many Joe(s) do you think are in Filippo's at any given time? (Ethnic remark. Strike one.)
I'm on Filippo's cell. Ask him to take your picture and send it to me.
I think that all of this commenting, debating, insulting, and now on to debating about commenting is an unfortunate waste of time. Does anyone here see that history is repeating itself? We are our own worst enemy.
And we wonder why nothing good ever happens in Buffalo.
i would say this post must have set some sort of record....until you figure most of them are just buffalo pundit.
Hah Ha!! Well done Goose...that wasn't too hard...Now Shake, let's talk about how your promoting Buffalo by admonishing anyone who hasn't hopped on the 6:30 Southwest flight to Pheonix for a "better life" in the desert
buffalopundit -
so the artvoice and block club coverage of the city that isn't "reflexively negative" is the pieces focusing on bad actions by city politicos? oh, ok. now i'm clear.
Sure, Carl. It was a good example of a post that is too innocuous to bother with. No one got hurt, so it stays.
I like this site. I think they allow reasonable discussion and, if this particular thread is evidence, they appear to allow for differences of opinion. I cetainly don't think they should delete comments they simply "don't like." Since I am considering moving to Buffalo (among a few other options), this site gives me a lot to think about, both good and bad. I appreciate the information I get both from the articles and from the comments equally. And I do mean all comments, not just the ostensibly "good" comments, be they positive or negative.
I like Pundit's site, too. Does anyone know why Pundit engages in such blatant sophistry every single time there is a metatopic (topic about BRO content)? Is this an inside joke or is there real animosity going on here?
It's a Tupac/Biggie thing, isn't it?
Maybe somebody could do a "Behind the Music" type story about it.
No-
What would you tell your lawyer. You're a little cartoon icon with a fake name. All we know is that you're angry, probably because as you say, your butt buddies are all the way in Sausalito.
Actually you are right I should have said one "could imagine" rather than "would imagine" That would be fact rather than opinion in that these commenters never post anything positive about the city.
It is fact that one could come to the conclusion that Buffalo is a worthless pit if you read the comments of Gaustad, Nonono etc. If not 100% negative with regard to the city their comments are a high percentage so.
But let's just leave it at this I retract the statement and I have never attributed the penis statement to Gaustad. It was used as an example only.
It is past time to return the Comments to a respectable place. I have never clicked Avoid User until recently and find I am clicking it more and more. Thanx for taking action on this topic.
Please excuse the typo, should be "privilege."
This cable connection doesn't always work that great in South Florida.
And from what I remember in law school, TRUTH is a defense to SLANDER.
Shake:
Tough town? Don't we know it. Every post-industrial town struggling to get back up is tough. We covered South Buffalo and the First Ward last month. I love the new people I met there. Salt of the earth. And I read your post here: http://www.buffalorising.com/story/all_things_irish. That was a quite an assumption.
We're covering the East Side for March, and it's going to be great. Sure, the East Side has been beat to hell, but there are a lot of people trying to turn that around. That's what BRO looks for.
If we've spent a lot of time on Elmwood, it's because there's a lot of action there. We'd like to see the rest of the city follow suit. Like you said, we're tough. We can do it.
Oddly enough, that's the kind of view that irks the dickens out of some people and gets sand kicked in our faces. You can disagree with our views all you want and stay online. You just can't engage in the other bits that incite hatred. That's pretty fair.
I also forgot to add that the "moderating police" also emerge to question every single edit or non-edit in the spirit of trying to completely understand the policy. Hence the possible "grave yard thread" for the important debating of such.
ok - all of this coming out from behind the curtain, has me thinking. and you know what might not be crazy? allowing (or more accurately providing a space) for member to add their myspace/friendster/photo/personal site to their profile.
removing a veil of anonymity humanizes the others participating in this little exchange. no longer is BTD an anonymous naysayer (although recently i think he has been rehabilitating his somewhat pugnacious personna with some very good insight). he is joe. and you can go meet him yourself.
perhaps it is time for another BRO party - but lets keep it cheap, necter is a little out of my meager means.
I have made a video in honor of BRO - and your grandmother will like it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wxq6IgkYA50
mmiller, you e-Nihilist, you! but if its all hot air, why edit anything? why post anything? for that matter, why talk? what point will it bring? the internet is meaningless. words are meaningless. there is no truth.
should i pop on my black turtleneck and start snapping my fingers now?
"We will not abandon the conversation. No way, no how."
My comments were directed at those who no longer participate because of trolls. They have most certainly walked away from the conversation. Hey, that's their right of course, but it's also their choice.
Print the bad news, as long as n-n-n takes responsibility for content and fact-checking like he/she holds everyone else to. Hold AA accountable.
nonono, you seem to forget that you admited that you were P.M. in your post about Cozumel. Someone else got the ironic intent of my screen name (YESYESYES) and is posting under yesyesyesyes. Obviously I am not the only one that knows who you are and is not afraid to call you out. Believe me I am not defending GY but have you asked him for a tour? Answer my question; if you cared about the Coit House why didn't you buy it? A house that had 300G worth of work done to it for 100G, sounds like a bagrain to me.
were'd all the other posts go - almost 230 to 167? we're meeeeeeeelting . . . meeeeeeeeelting. . .
Whynot:
We will not abandon the conversation. No way, no how. We're just not going to keep it on topic.
Ahhhh...back to square one I see. Only 218 posts later.......
Yet another round of nonono and yesyesyes and a new player of yesyesyesyes....how about stopstopstop?
Wondering if you all know that you private message each other?
nonono - I see that you want to be king, but wouldn't that conflict the fact that you are already a raging queen?
It sux that it has to come to this but I totally agree that this is the only way to stop these losers...
yes, that was an easy layup... courtesy of "the Mailman"...thanks Carl
nonono - I see above that you want to be king, but wouldn't that conflict with the fact that you are already a raging queen?
How about letting commenters digg up or down comments? Works well on digg.
Maybe Buffalopundit could submit a few articles about the suburbs and then we could realize that BuffaloRising has as much to do with regional improvement as it does with specific events and happenings in the city.
Wow that troll is prettty ugly, the facial expressions look a tad psychotic. Maybe an appropriate name for him could be Willy; no that doesn't seem to fit.... oh I got it how about Wally
Did the number of comments here beat out the number of comments on the last Bass Pro story? Amazing.
At this point some of the back and forth comments here seem childish and pointless (buffpundit). BRO has a right to post whatever they want. Sometimes I love the stories, sometimes I hate them. Sometimes I'm very intrested in what STEEL writes, sometimes I think he's a dummy. I feel the same way about CNN, Newsweek, Buff News. WHO CARES!
Read it, agree with it, disagree with. Learn from it, disregard it. If you are that disgusted by BRO policies or what they write about or the caliber of journalism.......then move on.
BRO has written plenty of articles about places outside of the city limits. Suzy Q's BBQ, Torches, O'Connell's, Amigo's, Ava Cado's.
Al:
If you're getting your information from the front page, you're watching the number tick down from the last 4 days. The posts are still here, but the number represents the last 96 hours each time you refresh the page.
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