The pro casino faction is made of non critical thinkers who only show the positives and ignore the complete picture.

I think former Congreemans LaFalce knows more about the position of Congression gambling legislation laws on native gambling than the bloggers who are pro casino. The law has been convoluted and wrongly manipulated and that is the decision of a Federal judge. U.S. Federal judges have the right and power to decide the laws that were passed by Congress and ignored by elected U.S.officials sworn to up hold the law. The Seneca Gambling Corporation knew there was a federal law suit but being gamblers they put all their chips on a not for sure bet and lost big time. See the law is not based on bets or mob rule.

Why/what kind of downtown events would they sponsor when they can just do almost any event they want in their own casino? What, if any, sort of things does the Niagara Falls Casino currently sponsor?

- The Seneca Gaming Corp. pledges millions in charitable donations to several organizations annually ($200,000 to the diabetes foundation last year).

- Seneca Gaming Corp. provides an endowed scholarship program, established in conjunction w/ Blue Cross Blue Shield of WNY. The scholarships are awarded to local students pursuing higher education in the health and human service fields.

- Seneca Gaming Corp. is an annual sponsor of First Night Buffalo.

- The Buffalo Bisons fridaynightbash (a WNY tradition at the ballpark) is sponsored by the Seneca Gaming Corporation.

There's lots more, should I continue?

I need to do more research on the idea of "sovereignty" myself. Why does their sovereignty extend to new land that they buy? Try this thought experiment: why don't they just buy all of the vacant properties the Buffalo News has been talking about lately until they own 51% of the city, put their tribe members on the city council and then steamroll their ideas into law?

My thoughts are I would like to see a casino built. If a casino is not built they should still build a hotel as it provides jobs, convention center for performances, and have to pay taxes. I may be wrong and most likely am so don't be brutal in the response please. haha but their sovereign land was land they currently have near salamanca right? Sounds reasonable, but I don't think it covers all land that they buy or they could keep buying portions of the state until all of upstate is sovereign "separate country" native American land. Does my perception of this make sense to anyone or am I off lol? maybe this is the reason why the judge said no to the land in buffalo as being sovereign. Either way I would like to seem something nice come from all of this as I'm sure everyone on BR does as well.

westbrook...what taxes were being collected on that vacant parcel for the last couple of decades? Show me the economic development going on with this parcel prior to the Seneca's coming along? It might not be tax money, but are the Seneca's not turning over a portion of the revenues to the state and city?

Construction continues, the temporary casino continues to operate and in 2010, the new casino will open. It is far from dead.

Thank you Wit,

Great research but I still stand that it was judicated that "gambling is illegal in NY State". It clearly is not. If we deny the ability of the Senecas to operate on that premiss, we are hypocritical.

Trust me, I am well aware of the Aquinna's trying to land a casino in New Bedford and yes, they were hypocrital in that attempt, being that they did not want to litter their land on Martha's Vineyard with a casino.

I fully recognize a double standard when I see one. Again, I have no dog in this fight but when I see injustice and speak out for it. Government hypocracy is what it is. Either gambling is illegal, call it illegal but dismantle the lottery (which, by the way preys on the poorest and contributes to everyone/ NY Times google News will show you).

Wit, you are obviously more versed in this than I, as I only see something that does not seem right. I have lived my life trying to "right wrongs" when I see them. If it looks fishy, smells fishy, it is probably pretty damn fishy.

Again, NY State, Albany, Buffalo, Erie County should not live by a double standard...

GIve me some sovern land a monopoly on High Stakes Casino gambling and I will put on some firework shows for you, a couple free concerts, $500 bonus, and some chairty work while taking your millions.

since that was given away, give me sovergn land, a monopoly on illegal drugs and prostiution and I'd do the same. Even build you a nice shiney drug resort. I'll give you 25% of pot profit. ;) .

Um......comparing this single casino in a depressed city to Las Vegas is rediculus. how far did Atlantic City get to being Las Vegas? how does Reno compare to the booming of Vegas?

Looks to me like most commenters have never lived in a community after Indian Gaming has become established. I could enumerate the negatives, but we have all heard them before. The overall outcome is a big negative for the community, a major windfall for the tribe. But, by all means, make them the friends of your organizations! They may throw very publicized peanuts in your direction.

I'm in favor of the casino, but I'd hardly consider myself a 'pro-casino advocate'. Those of us for the casino are less interested in the minutiae that most of the anti-casino crowd seems to be mired in. It's a good number of jobs, it's a small part of improving the water front, improving the skyline, and giving relatives in from out of town another option for something to do downtown. Is it perfect? no. Do we understand the issues involved with gambling? yes. All totalled, it's a net gain for the city.

I love this

"Buffalo dodged a bullet people! Do your really want the same thing to happen to Niagra Falls? That place is basically dead"

Niagara Falls has been dead for a while, in fact the only nice thing besides Goat Island is in fact the CASINO!

"Relax people, and watch, maybe we can all learn something from the Seneca's... or do you think your too smart for that?"

You put an apostrophe where it doesn't belong and leave one out where it does belong. I don't think you are too smart for that, for sure.

I always thought that as long as it was Indian Terriority, that Gambling was allowed. I am starting to see why the Seneca's would of rather invested in Cheektowaga than Buffalo, I never heard of "Citizens for a better Cheecktowaga". I hope the Senecas WIN this battle as they deserve it. This state and country has been messing with Native Americans' ever since the first settler arrived. Time to stop all this B.S. and let the Seneca's run thier business.

"The lawsuit was brought against the Senecas by Citizens for a Better Buffalo in reference to the Buffalo Creek Casino on Michigan Avenue and Perry Street in the Cobblestone District."

This is a really bad error. The lawsuit was brought against the Federal Government for allowing gaming on the land. It was not brought against the Senecas. The Senecas are not party to the lawsuit or the decision.

How come everyone has two complete opposite views of the casino. Most rational people know that there's no 1 business that will save Downtown Buffalo, but rather a collective mix housing, attractions, green space, resturants, shops, etc. I'm for the Casino, I don't gamble, yet I understand the concerns of it's opponents, (although I think they are minor). Jobs and economis aside, lets just take a look as something really basic. Wouldn't a gaming complex look beautiful downtown? Have any of you anti-casino people actually seen the plans. Look how enjoyable something as simple as the commerical slip has been. Didn't you feel proud that after all these years Buffalo did something nice?

Just a though maybe another project in the future could be something family friendly like the Navy Pier. Instead of lawsuits, maybe people could invest their money instead.

http://www.navypier.com/

If anyone thinks that a casino will be good for downtown, you got to be smoking something. Only in buffalo there is a mentality to accept anything lower and not strive for anything higher.

Casnios destroy economies. Plain and simple. They don't attract any businesses, they keep them away.

I don't mind gambling, but Casinos that dont' contribute ANY tax money to the state are AWFUL.

Buffalo dodged a bullet people! Do your really want the same thing to happen to Niagra Falls? That place is basically dead.

like the casino or not you have to love the confidence this man/ group of people has. he pretty much just said "screw you guys... we're building a casino" not many other people in this town have the cajones to do something like that!!

for the record i'm neutral on the casino.

may buffalo have the best possible outcome, whatever it is

I'll do some quick math:

Room occupancy at hotels in downtown Buffalo is at about 85%. So with a 200 room hotel, 170 rooms would be occupied every day of the year; that means 62,050 room nights. Let's say the average room rate is $150. (I believe it is higher at the Hampton Inn on Chippewa). That's a yearly gross of $9.3 million. The county and city share of the sales tax from the room revenue from hotel rooms alone (4.75%) would be $442,000. Plus the bed tax, which I believe is 10%, adds close to $1 million additional income. So on the hotel taxes alone, which the Seneca casino would be exempt from, that is close to $1.5 million. All of the eating and entertainment and gambling would also be tax free, and the casino can undercut local restaurants because their restaurants can be looked at as a loss leader. All they want to do is give people an incentive to walk in the door, because a majority of the people who walk in the door will drop money in the machines or at the table.

Buffalo estimates that its share of the 25% of the 25% of the slot revenue will be $6 to $7 million a year. And other hotels, restaurants and entertainment venues will suffer because they cannot compete with running a restaurant or a nightclub as a loss leader. And after 15 years of operations, NY State and the City of Buffalo get nothing. Not even 25% of 25%.

Does that make any sense to you birdbrain casino supporters?

WoodenShoe, do you really think a casino in Buffalo, NY would have attracted people from all over the country? I could just hear families all over the country planning their vacations. "Hey, they just built one of those crappy Indian casinos in Buffalo, NY-let's spend a week there this summer! There is nothing else there, but they have a casino! Let's see, there is no direct flight there, because the airport sucks, but we will still go!!"

The only people that would have been gambling there would have been Erie County residents and a few other regional visitors. The only people that would have benefited would have been the Senecas.

Yup, it's a "war on the nation." The Network of Religious Communities? Big fans of genocide. The League of Women Voters? Violent fanatics.

Stupid.

How funny would it be if they kept building, got it pretty much done, and the final decision ended up being "no casino." What do you think they would use the building for then?

it will probably be used for another drug store, unemployment office, planned parenthood or welfare office, as these seem to prosper VERY well around here!!!

...you read through the end Rboy, so I think I got my point across. I'll assume that by questioning my grammar/spelling, but not my conclusions, that you agree. That's what's important.

I am blown away by this theory that the Seneca's are working at some great advantage that will have them overtake all things economic in Buffalo. EVERY economic endeavour is undertaken because a person or group believes they have an advantage. Whether it be a patent, or location, or a work force that has a certain knowledgebase or work ethic. People in the real world don't jump up and down about this, they compete, and attempt to create their own advantage. We've become so watered down with 'fairness' that are community doesn't recognize this. No wonder we can't compete... it just doesn't seem fair that someone has to lose.

And about this 'victory', I've won litigation that I was never able to enforce. Getting a court ruling, and getting the real world players to play along, are two very different things. Why such a racist attitude towards the Seneca's? Guess they would have been better served had a few more Skarnath's been on their side during the eighteenth and early ninteenth centuries ("Don't trust white man."). Somehow I think the score is still in our favor. Relax people, and watch, maybe we can all learn something from the Seneca's... or do you think your too smart for that?

I respect the Seneca Nation. They are a class act. They are Committed to Western New York and always have been. They will always be here. That can't be said for the small group of people that are standing in their way. Will they be here years down the road? I doubt it. Joel Rose will retire from UB and probably move out of state while collecting his pension.

GO SENECAS!

For all of you saying the 1000 of jobs will be paid out of our own pockets. That is how business works!!! When you patronize a business they are able to earn money for themselves and pay their employees. If that is a reason for a business not to open then all business in WNY should close... because they take our money!

I rather have my expendable money go to pay wages for one of those 1000 jobs than to 1000 people on welfare.

For everyone saying that the casino would take way from other local hotels and restaurants. What is this... communism? Has anyone ever heard of competition? That is by far the dumbest argument I heard so far. The casino hotel would be good because it would force everyone to compete.. leading to better products and better prices. MORE OPTIONS = BETTER FOR CONSUMERS. Look at the hotels recently undergoing renovations (some like the Hyatt with our own money but I guess that doesn't matter since they are not the Senecas).

If it was for the 12 Citizens for a Dumber Buffalo we would have one hotel and one restaurant.... god forbid someone else would like to offer the same product! Especially if we have to knock down an ugly empty building that was built 100 years ago. If these people found dog crap from 1880 they would want to designate the area a historic site. Stop telling the rest of us what is best for us. If you don't wan to gamble DO'T GO TO THE CASINOS!

This Seneca is of the opinion that judicial activist shitheads like Skretney should be recalled immediately. Of course the lawsuit brought upon by the cultural elite babysitters of WNY and California attorney Dianne Bennet is against the Senecas. Their high priced Wendt foundation attorneys just found a way to word it a unique way to hide the fact this has ALWAYS been about the war on the Nation.

I do not understand this. I do understand that Buffalo needs the jobs. I recognize that. I would never, personally step foot into a casino of any kind, do not like them and the odds are stacked against anyone who does.

I do unerstqand the sovereign status the tribes all over the country deserve and rightfully so. I do understand that the right to land can be quite controversial.

What baffles me about this ruling is the fact that this judge based his ruling on "gamlbling is illegal in New York State". Is this man blind or perhaps he has never been to a convenience store. Gambling is very much alive and well in New York State, when if benifits New York State. I do not play the lottery, I am taxed enough but this ruling should and will be challenged on hypocracy. If gambling is illeagal, it is illeagal and dismantle the Lottery. Until then, the Seneca's should have the right to do whatever they want on their court awarded land.

Albany, Buffalo and Erie County can not, nor should not, have it both ways.

Seems logical to me. Am I nuts?

YES!!! I love these Native Americans!!!

I also love these native Americans. They know how to get things done. I hope they keep building the casino and one day the 22 story hotel will rise as a slap in the face to all who stood in the way of progress.

Lets see the Feds tell the natives what to do on sovereign land. LOLOLOL I am so sick of government and red tape and all the bullcrap.

They have no reason not to go ahead. 1) NYS hasnt enforced any laws with regard to the Senecas or any indian tribe. Not tabacco tax, not gas tax, etc 2) Even if they manage to stop gambling the Senecas could still make money putting all the other hotels downtown out of business and their shows and theaters could do the same with private sector culturals 3) and let the city/county try to collect property taxes on those acres without gambling

as they said...they will never give up the land and they will never pay taxes on it either

this is a precursur of what buffalo and erie county will be experiencing when the compact says the senecas dont have to share slot money anymore.

We all agree that the land near the casino has been stagnant for a few decades now correct? Also, no development has come down there besides this casino plan? Heres my idea. All the vacant or stagnant buildings should be knocked down, soil graded and turned into ready to build sites. Promote this new area by the water as the buffalo technological or business distract and cut taxes on any new business that will build in this area for 5 years. Promote the incentives and ready to go sites and try to get the growing technical field to come to this area. If Buffalo can get the blu cross/blue shield company to build near the 190 I think these incentives would get other businesses to come as well. This is just my idea for an option. Please don't bash me for being dumb or optimistic I am just throwing ideas out there for alternatives.Does anyone think this would be economically feasible or a good idea?

These opponents of the casino are sadly, the most awful and sad of individuals you'll see:

They have no respect. Anti-Casino people should respect the wishes of the majourity, but they won't. Its really sad that these few people have no respect for the majority, when the majority should always do its best to respect the minority. Well... as long as you aren't a minority in the minority.

The Anti-Casino group are a plague on Buffalo. Just part of a string of devlopment projects slapped with lawsuits from people with to much time on their hands.

If these opposition people ever say "Why isn't anything ever built in Buffalo?" -- ECMC should personally revoke their right to breed.

Only $7 million? I know city government isn't too efficient, but even they should be able to do something with $7 million a year. Hell, sell the income stream to Wall Street and take a $90 million lump sum.

I can go online and buy almost anything tax free.

To operate at that location, some incentive is needed, otherwise we'd have other corporations investing $333 million on that site. You make it sound like the casino might upset the apple cart, and that would be a big problem, well, it seems to me like upsetting the apple cart might be just what the city needs.

Enough! The majority do want the $33 million development to move forward. It will happen. The CBB should start to focus on something productive. If they are so concerned about making Buffalo a better place than do something positive for the city.

now we see the fruits of liberals....

another victimized minority wanting special privileges to exploit monetary gain for themselves

the senecas are like vd, now that they own the land in downtown buffalo...they said it with their own mouth....they will never sell and they will never leave....

and of course under that was....we will never pay taxes...any kind of taxes (property, sales, etc)

and of course under that was...we are above the law...our sovereignty allows us special privileges...others dont...

this deal needs to be permanently re-negotiated or cancelled....that revenue sharing from slots needs to include video slots and be permanent revenue sharing.

If your for or against the CBB "citizens for a better buffalo" and what they have done for the casino let them know. They are the ones that can either continue to stop the casino or let it go now. So let them know how you feel. Heres their email address: Ed@BetterBuffalo.com . My opinion is: they have been around for 2 years and all they have done to make buffalo better is sue to stop the casino. I can already see my property values rising and my tax dollars decreasing. Deep breathe now..hoping hoping.....damn my house is still worth the same, my property value hasn't come up and the crack head is still wondering around outside.

MAYBE I'M WRONG...

But didn't the Seneca's already buy this land with the assumption of building a casino and NOW they turn around and tell them that they can't. I wouldn't be suprised if the Senecas packed they bags and went elsewher. Why should they or anyone put up with all this BS!!!!

You can't ignore the jobs this $33 million development will create.

The Senecas are a great employers. They recently included a $500 bonus in their employees pay checks to help pay for gas. The Senecas will do more for Buffalo than just create jobs and revenue. Think about the other things they will bring to the table. Things they will do outside of their contractual agreement. They will sponsor many downtown events andl contribute to charities. Imagine the firework displays they will have at the waterfront, and not just on July 4th. They are committed to WNY and will always be here. That can't be said for others. The Senecas are honorable people. They want to work with the city of Buffalo. They have kept there cool during all this BS and have shown great patience and class.

There will be no other casino/hotel like this. It will be an amazing destination. Keep it going!

while the wendt folks, the Joel Rose circus et al continue their war on the Senecas I was wondering if their were any restaurants east of Main downtown?

How do statistics lie when every hotel in Buffalo save one has to charge 17% taxes on hotel rooms?

If the room rate is $150, I pay over $20 extra in taxes if I stay at a regular hotel and I pay $0 if I stay at an Indian casino hotel. C'mon.

i was surprised to see how in favor of this area hotels and restaurants are....i think it helps prove that theres no reason to think this would harm buffalo

http://www.wivb.com/global/story.asp?s=8619187

I can safely talk of the majority. I can easilly hand 12 people out over and have a majority over the 12 people involved in the suit.

While the Wendt folks, the Joel Rose circus et al continue their war on the Senecas I was wondering if there were any restaurants east of Main downtown?

"So I say forget the Casino and let's see what else can we look at to improve the city. "

Billo,

Let's call Basa, he can bail us out... Hate to say I told you so, but...

Sorry for all the typos above.... this subject gets me going.

The Seneca Gambling Corporation is going to create 5000 new jobs in WNY for lawyers.

Let's see how many lawyers kick a judges ass in court. Let's see who is in charge of interpreting U.S. law the Seneca Gambling Corporation or U.S. judges?

How many WNY churches have to be robbed to pay those high hourly fees.

Sorry, typed too fast on that one, legal

Can someone please tell me how the Senecas are still operating their casino after they have been ordered by the court to cease gambling???

The ed@betterbuffalo.com is no longer a valid email address.

Hmmm.....