Chris69/Buffweiner - I was mistaken, you couldn't resist your ignorant racist rant about Buff State's President:

MY ANSWER! AN INCOMPETENT MINORITY/GENDER/DIVERSITY PRESIDENT THAT GOT HER JOB BECAUSE OF AN AFFIRMATIVE ACTION QUOTA AND IS SITTING ON HER BIG BLACK FEMALE TUSH UNTIL SHE RETIRES!

You really are an asshat.

Does anyone have any information as to when the razor wire fencing is scheduled to go up around the South campus perimeter, to protect the students and employees from the alarming increase of violent crime that is plaguing the university neighborhoods?

It is hard to believe someone could be arrogant enough to say that it is "unfortunate" that UB wants to provide additional access to high quality child care for the 30,000+ students, faculty, and staff at North Campus. Obviously queenseyes has never been in the position of struggling to find childcare, or to work full time while caring for a family.

sbrof - About this: "it isn't just a rumor. That IS the plan. Undergraduate on North, South becomes the higher higher ed graduate school "

1. Can you provide a link to anything official saying that 'IS the plan' (and not just one possibility)?

2. As hashma wrote, North has a lot of engineering (soon to be 6 building's worth), and math, and various science departments. You can't be saying 'the plan' is really to separate out grad programs of all those onto South and leave their undergrad on North, can you? That doesn't sound practical. I'm also skeptical that they'd move grad humanities to South and leave undergrad on North. Sounds very inefficient. Obviously as cvp said the Center for the Arts means arts-related studies, grad and undergrad, would stay on North.

Or did you mean what would move to South are schools and deptsnow on North that have grad programs but not any undergrad? For example, Law, Education, stuff like that? Tha't more practical but even for those, I'll be surprised if you can provide a link to anything saying that 'IS the plan' to move all those to South, and not just one possibility. Aren't all those 2020 planning phases intended to decide all that? If you heard all this in conversations that would sound like a rumor, but you wrote it isn't a rumor.

Anyway, they'll do whatever they do but you shouldn't set RonR up for a big let down in 10 years if it things don't go that way. His capitalized wow sounded excited about it, like he might be packing his bags to move here.

hashma - Very good points. Your first point is really more than twice as strong as how you wrote it.

...moving the department of Engineering downtown or into the city would be utterly ridiculous. For starters, there are already two buildings dedicated to the subject.

According to this list, there's already at least five engineering buildings on North Campus: Bell, Bonner, Furnas, Jarvis, and Ketter. Click on building names to see their descriptions, purposes, and locations all next to each other.

This new building, which QE apparently feels should instead be located miles away somewhere along Main St in the city, isn't named yet and not in that list. The drawing in the link included in his article shows it will be near the other engineering buildings.

Carl; maybe I am mistaken but I thought the potential long term plan was to move the medical school to the medical campus which would make EVEN MORE sense.

Err, the arts aren't going anywhere. They didn't spend $50million on an arts facility in 1994 just to move the campus 14 years later. Sorry.

Typical naive Buffalo first article with the usual cast of characters spouting their displeasure over UB's presence in Amherst. The only decent comments here are offered by HASHMA and ATWATERLOUSE; and the rest of the comments leave me wondering if most of you have ever stepped on to the UB North campus.

SBROF - Way to continue your Urban pretentiousness and naive idealistic planning. Newsflash: The city is not failing because UB is in Amherst, and moving UB will not be the silver bullet that the City needs for growth. Shuffling the deck from the suburbs to the city is not the solution for the city, either is the relocation of ECC or UB to Buffalo, these are incomplete suggestions that do not address the root cause of Buffalo's problems. I would hope that a future architect and planner would be able to see that beyond your own naive idealism.

B-Lolawstu - I truly hope that you are joking about being a law student. You will never survive if you do not take the time to do your basic research before opening your mouth to spout your uniformed opinion. There are no do-overs in the court room, even an entry level paralegal will tell you that. "Oops your honor, I meant not-guilty, oh, wait or was that guilty, no, I 'm pretty sure he pleads non-guilty."

Chris69 - You are delusional and need to go back on your meds! Screaming your ill conceived point doesn't make it more poignant, it just makes you seem like an even bigger lunatic. We have all heard your grand plans for "centers of excellence", "the beltline", "10,000 more students at Buffalo State", and some huge University comprised of State, County, and Private institutions. Why not just integrate Park School and Nardin into the City of Buffalo schools because they are all schools. Sounds like a plan, let's get on that one in all caps. Kudos for not dragging President Howard through your mud puddle yet again, it has gotten really old.

RonR - I am not sure how you perceive UB South as landlocked, but see Buffalo State as having " a lot of room to grow". Buffalo State is a different type of institution, some students enroll there because of the size of the campus and size of the student population. It sounds like you have the typical Buffalonian inferiority complex. You have an issue with UB primarily because the main campus is in the suburbs. Oh well, Buffalo had several opportunities to expand UB before Amherst was even considered, coming back now is like contesting Scott Norwood's missed field goal 15 years after the fact, it won't do you any good to keep reliving it, it is time to move on.

BTW, for those who may have never stepped on to UB's South Campus, the daycare center has been around for decades, it is about time that it is expanded beyond two disconnected trailers to look like a real building.

I love UB's plans for the South, North, and Downtown campuses and I am eager to see them bring the UB 2020 plan to fruition. I am also glad that they are not kowtowing to every complaint from bitter urbanists and wannabe planners. UB is a force in the development of Buffalo, as a region, not just a city.

Hopefully someday, the urbanists will be able to see beyond their lemming like allegiance to the mantra and see the region as a holistic entity that requires all parts, both suburban and urban, to thrive.

It is hard to believe someone could be arrogant enough to say that it is "unfortunate" that UB wants to provide additional access to high quality child care for the 30,000+ students, faculty, and staff at North Campus. Obviously queenseyes has never been in the position of struggling to find childcare, or to work full time while caring for a family.

Stop knocking the North Campus. It's here. It's perfect for undergrads. It's not going anywhere.

Start advocating for a Metro Rail station up here. That's the smartest way to drive money down to the downtown without moving a gigantic campus.

I realize North Campus is here to stay, but at least connect the metro rail up to the north campus. I'm always surprised there is no push by UB to connect what will now be 3 "campuses" with th esingle rail line. Esp with all the parking woes at UB north.

These will be nice additions to the scenery at South Campus.. some real new investment instead of just the critical maintenance that has happened for years. As for the projects on north... there isn't much that can be done. UB an SUNY can't simply afford pack up and leave north campus. Too much money, time and effort has been spent on it and we are stuck with it forever.

The real point is that all three campuses must grow together and become better places to server UB's needs.

@allfit- I believe you can amend the record in court if you say something in error. Sorry I made a mistake. I forgot that you've never made an error in anything that you posted. Maybe next time you could respond to a point I made instead of standing on your pedestal pretending you're better because someone happen to make a simple mistake...

My guess is that Amherst will become the campus of technology and science.

My guess is that South Campus will gradually become the campus for liberal arts with perhaps even the business school relocating to the South Campus (dont know what they will do with the school of performing arts they just built then). Of course the South Campus become ripe ground for the growth of a new program.

Downtown will gradually become the school for Medical Sciences and those curriculae that benefit from a downtown presence. Dentistry will probably stay on the south campus

Law, Journalism, Media, government, performing arts all would benefit from being downtown. Architecture would but only via osmosis. You see most of the architectural design firms are in the suburbs. I believe canon is in Grand Island.

At least that seems the wi

Oops... Excuse my previous post... I mixed up Pharmacy and Architecture School, but the "Stupid. Stupid. Stupid." still applies. The Pharmacy School should also be downtown in the medical corridor.

"RonR 0 ratings12345 Today, 13:35 Maybe someone can answer me this. Why is there zero focus being placed on Buffalo State? Why is everything UB? UB north is here to stay. Deal with it. What is also here to stay is Buff State, which is 100% in the city and from what I have been told in strong demand by students and could double in enrollment to 18k if it wanted to. Why not focus on that?"

ON THIS RONR IS RIGHT ON THE MONEY BUT HE NEGLECTED ONE HUGE POINT IN WHICH UB AND BUFFALO STATE ARE ACTUALLY MEANT TO COMPLIMENT ONE ANOTHER.

LOOK AT UB TECHNOLOGY, ITS THEORETICAL SCIENCES AND R&D FOCUSSED. LOOK AT BUFFALO STATE TECHNOLOGY, ITS BASIC SCIENCES AND APPLICATION FOCUSSED.

WHICH MEANS THAT UB & BUFFALO STATE SHOULD BE COMPLIMENTING EACH OTHER BECAUSE TOGETHER THEY COMPLETE THE SPECTRUM FOR PRODUCT/SERVICE DEVELOPMENT.

IF BUFFALO IS TO GAIN ADDITIONAL CENTERS FOR EXCELLENCE THEN IT WILL ONLY HAPPEN IN PARTNERSHIP WITH UB, BUFFALO STATE AND OTHERS LIKE CANISIUS OR NIAGARA UNIVERSITY ETC.

THE BELTWAY SIMPLY PROVIDES A MEANS FOR BUFFALO STATE TO CONNECT TO UB, CANISIUS AND MEDAILLE.

NOW WHY BUFFALO STATE AND UB AND CANISIUS WONT PARTNER, WHY BUFFALO STATE DOESNT HAVE SMALL BUSINESS INCUBATORS, WHY BUFFALO STATE TURNS DOWN 10,000 APPLICANTS PER YEAR, WHY BUFFALO STATE WONT BUILD DORMATORIES CREATING SO MUCH PENT UP DEMAND THAT PRIVATE DEVELOPERS SHY OF RISK ARENT WAITING.

MY ANSWER! AN INCOMPETENT MINORITY/GENDER/DIVERSITY PRESIDENT THAT GOT HER JOB BECAUSE OF AN AFFIRMATIVE ACTION QUOTA AND IS SITTING ON HER BIG BLACK FEMALE TUSH UNTIL SHE RETIRES!

Does the article say anything about a new building for the architecture school? Maybe I missed it . . .

Keep Amherst, move all of south campus programs downtown, redevelop the city campus as Buffalo's first transit-oriented-development project. :dreaming:

@sbrof- South Campus wouldn't shrink if the Law School went downtown because the Law School is on N. Campus. However, the administration at UB seems to want to stick on S. Campus whether we want to go there or not. (I believe UB wants to make S. Campus an all graduate school campus). If the Law School were to move downtown, the current plan to expand undergrad enrollment by 30% could certainly/easily use the the current building (O'Brian Hall) for undergrads...

Pettjm54 - didn't get into UB, did ya?

yeah the long term.. emphasis on long.. would bring all 5 medical related schools downtown. Phamacy is moving to south and eventually downtown but probably not for at least 20 years when it would be time to significantly renovate the building. It is a little like moving twice but when you really think about the time frame involved it makes more sense. They have money now to move to south and are moving forward with that while the medical \ nursing and dental schools will take some time to get to south.

Architecture \ Law would like to be downtown but that isn't going to happen. Both should have satellite facilities if they desire but moving them off of south would mean that South Campus would shrink and not grow as well. And the community around the heights would throw a total fit. As they should. UB 2020 puts all three campuses in a position where each grows. There is no way at this point in the game to consider any of them to shrink because the host community would never allow it. Imagine the fight and public problems if UB came out and said that North is going to shrink.. and move back to the city. It would stop the whole process.

Stupid. Stupid. Stupid.... The architecture school should be downtown(along with the Law School). I've also heard some of the UB 2020 plans call for moving the Architecture School downtown! How stupid would it be to build this new building for them on South Campus just to have them move downtown in a few years...

RonR, it isn't just a rumor. That IS the plan. Undergraduate on North, South becomes the higher higher ed graduate school and downtown focuses on community interaction and medical schools.

B-Lo, yes South Campus WOULD shrink if the law school went to downtown instead of south because ALL the medical schools currently on South are going to start moving to downtown over the years. There needs to be something to fill in the gaps. Law and its graduate program are one of those pieces. Along with Management (grad portion) and Education... There are a lot of peices to this puzzle I would recommend going to the UB 2020's website to see them all and understand the situation a little more.

Alfit, "Urban pretentiousness and naive idealistic planning" ..haha UB promotes and backs with many stats an numbers that it is the largest employer and economic engine for the WHOLE REGION.. not some old axle or chevy plant.. anymore people. UB brings more money with students and research dollars than anything else in this region hands down and the fact that 90% of it all is centered around North campus is Exactly the reason that NF Boulevard and the wealth of amherst has grown the way it has.

Theoretical situation.. what is UB north was built in Hamburg.. I guarentee that the distribution of wealth would be mirrored in our region and the NFB would be Abbott, milstrip of one of those streets down there. UB was and has been the reason why Amherst is as rich as it is. There is nothing inherently wrong with that. There is no other reason why the wealthy moved to Amherst instead of other nicer areas of the region.. Especially considering that much of amherst was swamp lands considered uninhabitable until the huge public works projects to drain hundreds of acres and culvert and flood control the creeks. All state money in support for the SUNY campus.

The native american name for Williamsville meant something like terrible place.. because of the winds that used to sweep through that area of the region over the swamps... Anyone who has been to north in the winter would know that isn't a fun place to be. UB investment changed the whole dynamic of the region.

Did it hurt Buffalo.. sure did, was it the only thing.. far from it. But every other major city that survived the fall of American \ European de-industrialization has its major research university at the heart of its downtown. Talk to any urban planner in the world and they would tell you that. Anyone else remember the city planner from Copenhagen that lectured on Elmwood many years ago. He called it out himself.. Without students, life, faculty and the money that a university brings to an urban center we will never be able to fully revitalize our city. Sorry it isn't nativity.. it's just the sad truth that we as a region made one huge mistake.. one that we will always have to live with and constantly battle against.

I know they acted in what they thought was the best interests of the University but that was in a time of experimental idealism.. look at the design of the campus. They were up for trying new things. But hindsight is 20\20...

Not that Buff State isn't important but it is a smaller draw. UB draws upwards of 30 - 40 percent of its student population from outside the region and many from outside the country. This is a huge influx of money and ideas into the region. it is no less THE reason Amherst is Amherst and not another Tonawanda or Cheektowaga.

UB is a huge growth factor for the town and the region.. and hopefully in the future for the City as well. While i agree that the Beltline or other routes should be reintroduced for commuter travel UB gets and deserves the attention for a reason.

Too bad the pharmacy school isn't relocating to the medical campus where it'd seem to be a logical fit. I agree that we are stuck with the Amherst campus so we might as well get the most from it and improve the appearance so it grows in its role as a community asset.

I found out that the UB's "Redistributed Growth" plan calls for moving the Pharmacy School downtown... So I guess my original post still applies just delete Architecture School and insert Pharmacy(sorry Colin).

It doesnt make sense for the South Campus to be the graduate campus, atleast not for science and technology.

There is more distinction between the arts and the sciences than there is between grad and undergrad.

Again my guess is that they campus will start to diversity the arts out of the north campus because they can be easily separated.

Plus it opens up some of the rapidly expanding curriculae to new space. I honestly think the best place for the law school is downtown with the law offices and the courts and the government buildings. The north and the south campus doesnt satisfy anything for the law department. Same goes for media and performing arts. An actor/musician would much rather have access to on campus production plus off campus productions than to be isolated until graduation.

So it begs the question...what at UB is growing rapidly that doesnt need tobe downtown and doesnt need the science and technology north campus.

The only common sense thing is liberal arts, undergrad and grad.

Of course if you have a technology based north campus and a technology based downtown campus, then uniting them via light rail is critical!

I am not saying it IS a terrible place I am just saying that UB's investment into Amherst is was spurred much of its development and centered it at the most affluent place in the region. That is all. Nothing more or less.

From what I know schools like engineering or the arts will be staying on north. I guess I should have clarified that not all graduate schools would move ot south but as you said those programs without an undergraduate component but some that do. Like management for instance is being considered to split between north and south for graduate and undergraduate programs.

I would suggest taking a look at this file Campus Concepts The redistributed growth from what I have seen in the phase two work seems to be the preferred method right now. I guess IS is too strong a word because the plan is not yet completed but a work in progress but the direction it is moving is for a redistributed growth. The exact breakdown has yet to be fully flushed out but the components that are being considered are what I said before. From the plan Redistributed growth option 2:

"Option 2 proposes an “academic health center” in the Downtown Campus-but with all five Health Sciences departments moving to BNMC–as well as a variety of complementary non–academic uses. That would allow vacated buildings on South Campus to be repurposed for community–oriented uses and professional programs migrating from North Campus."

Education, Law, Management (grad) & Social Work would fill the void of the Medical School vacating south. North campus would keep all over grad programs and the majority of undergrad stuff to accomplish its need to grow. But that being said.. until the plan is fully completed and nothing is set it stone and I am sure everything is constantly being negotiated, but there is a larger general direction that the plan is progressing.

A lot more will be flushed out when the UB2020 team gets more information about the Downtown Campus up on the web right now Phase II only has detailed info for North and South. Assuming that means downtown is still being worked on now.

allfit or ahole (u decide) anyway, I used caps to differentiate from quoting ronr

and I dont particularly know who you genius's are but Buffalo cannot change the feds nor the state nor the unfunded mandates.

Buffalo doesnt have the strong leadership to even stand up to local unions, (particularly government unions like the teachers unions) or tun off the patronage machine!

So what are Buffalos advantages?

1) Transportation (airport, freight rail, passenger rail and light rail, port facilities and canal facilities, highway and intermodal transhipment facilities)

2) Tourism (in the south we have wine and skiing, in the east we have Darien Lake, to the north we have Niagara Falls and downtown we have some of the finest history and architecture and cultural amenities in the Great Lakes.

3) Power Generation, Distribution and Management. We have oil, gas, coal, wind, hydro, geothermal heat pumps, solar, nuclear, etc. We have more clean renewable energy and more diversity than most areas of the country.

3) UB has its supercomputers because Buffalo is an international ultra high speed network corridor.

4) We have a strong base in material sciences and manufacturing

5) We have strong well respected colleges. Their not the UofR, RIT, St John Fischer and Nazareth but UB, Buffalo State, Canisius/St Bonaventure/Niagara U, and Medaille/D'Youville/Daemon/Trocaire cluster are known and respected.

(Now we have the COE for Life Sciences ... aka a growing medical industry)

6) We have a significant Banking and Finance Industry but considering the global banking crisis we are very fortunate to have HSBC and M&T!

I dont know who a-hole is but these are Buffalos local assets. I dont know what your solutions for Buffalo's future are but it's easier to leverage your natural advantages than to create something from scratch. Its easier to ask for funds to maintain or expand something you have than to build something new that you dont. (ie if Buffalo didnt have a light rail...it would have 0% chance of getting any funds to build one but the fact that we have one....means we have a near 75% that it can be expanded).

I dont know what you think are the economic bricks for Buffalo's future but your a fool if you think we shouldnt be capitalizing the above industries.

Of which myself and RonR are absolutely correct. Even if Buffalo State is still smaller, it is still an institution providing economic growth....so much growth that Buffalo State is probably the biggest reason why the westside and Black Rock do not resembe the eastside!

Here is the problem! There are some local institutions which recognize that they are a local institution that can serve as an economic engine. Other institutions like Buffalo State under Howard and the NFTA do not see themselves as local institutions with any responsibility for growth.

Buffalo State could easily put its non-academic buildings like dormatories and sports stadiums across the scajaquada river and build up to Amherst Street/Tonawanda Street.

Buffalo State could easily cross Rees Street, build up to Grant Street and beyond. Buffalo State need not be landlocked. Some of that housing is begging for decent buyout.

Howard only hs one reason she can get away with it. She is a feminist/african american gender/minority diversity appointment aka an affirmative action quota. Doing nothing because she either doesnt know how or doesnt have to!

heather- You may be interested to know Amherst was named for Lord Jeffrey Amherst the Govenor General of British North America. He was a pioneer in the use of boilogical warfare and came up with the plan to give the Native Americans blankets infected with smallpox. I believe the Native Americans called Amherst " The swampy place that steals trade from Buffalo"

pettjm54....on a side now....if Buffalo State education program is so wonderful then why did Clinton&Schumer lobby for federal funds to put a center for excellence in education IN ROCHESTER?

crisa...in response to your concern over the comment about medications...its a much deeper liberal/communist bias. In Communist Soviet Russia and Communist China, anyone who publicly dissents against what is politically correct is or can be deemed to be mentally ill. They can be forced onto medications, forced into institutions or forced into siberian isolation.

crisa....it may sound like just a sarcastic slam but this is really a liberal/communist attempt to control thoughts and speech since only a properly functioning minds can be in agreement. Individuality, independence, opinion, dissent are all signs of an errant mind.

when one attempts to demean another through such tactics then I suggest you remember Hitler, Stalin and Moa.

Stupid. Stupid. Stupid.... The architecture school should be downtown(along with the Law School). I've also heard some of the UB 2020 plans call for moving the Architecture School downtown! How stupid would it be to build this new building for them on South Campus just to have them move downtown in a few years...

Pettjm54 - didn't get into UB, did ya?