Harvey,

My husband and I would love to rehab a property like this and live in it as well....would be a dream...

We are relocating to Buffalo from the West Coast with an income of approx. $3400 per month allowing enough cash to rehab one room at a time, or triage, addressing what needs immediate attention.

How hard is it to deal with the Preservation board when it comes to rehabbing an old beauty such as this? We would be interested in doing most of the work ourselves, only hiring outside contractors for plumbing and electrical.

Is a scenario like this even possible?

I would have to say that living in the area you described in a beautiful, old, historic home: priceless....

Sorry to rip off the credit card commercial!

I'm very familiar with this building, the neighborhood, the previous owner, and the new owner.

The building is bad, but due to the efforts of all it's neighbors and the good bones it was built with, the property values would justify the cost of saving it (we've saved worse - 32 St. John is a good example).

As far as the previous owner, our community organization helped put him in jail - anyone would be a better owner.

So that leaves the new owner and their plans. The new shepard of the property is Greenleaf Properties. The owner is James Swazey (sp?). I don't know for sure that he is knocking it down but I'll check with them to find out. Greenleaf has a very checkered past in Buffalo - but the owner really does appear to be trying to turn his properties around (the neighbors of this property are not happy with them).

Jim bought a property accross the street from me on Richmond Avenue and has so far conducted a historically sensitive restoration of the front porch and front facade - spending far more than he would have if he didn't try so hard to respond to the neighbors requests and bring the property back to it's original grandeur (including purchase he must have close to $250,000 into it before he's finished which means he's willing to spend what it could take to bring the Porter property back). He's doing the same with his other properties all over the city - I don't know if they are all getting the same investment as this one on Richmond.

Greenleaf has a serious image problem to overcome (many neighbors will never get over what they were put through in the past) but I have to say that Jim is extremely concerned about his image and is trying hard to overcome the past. He could be planning to rehab the property, or to improve the clientel at his brick apartment complex next door by providing parking (I really hope he plans on saving the building).

As far as what can be done to save the building there are several options if someone wanted to take it on as a homeownership project. MBBA (remember them - the State agency PUSH is going after) has provided a few million dollars for rehabbing the properties they currently hold leins on (Jim bought this building through an MBBA foreclosure). The state is offering $35,000 per unit in matching funds for rehabbing these properties if it will end up with a homeowner. This means that turning it into a double could net a $70,000 grant from the State toward the rehab (even more if it were a triple - but that could be pushing it for this neighborhood). The West Side Neighborhood Housing Services also has tens of thousands of dollars in grants that could be used for rehab (but only if the actual home owner was having the rahab done where the State MBBA dollars could be spent by a middleman planning to sell to a home owner.

Scenario:

Cost of property: $20,000 (I don't remember the actual cost) Cost of rehab including turning it into a double: $120,000 (or certainly more - but lets start here) Neighborhood value after rehab: $160 - 200,000 (or possibly more depending on the rehab).

State MBBA matching grant: $70,000 WSNHS matching grant: $40,000 WSNHS closing cost assistance $5,000 Owner investment $30,000

Monthly mortgage on $50,000: $500 / month Monthly rental income from upper rental unit: $500

Monthly cost of owning beutifully rehabed mansion on nationally reccognozed Olmsted Parkway one block from Kleinhans, Karpeles, Richmond Ave, Symphony Circle, a few blocks from Elmwood, Allentowm, and the river:

Nothing but taxes and utilities. Massielo passed something before he left office that graduated tax increases on properties with significant rehabs that could even be used to keep the taxes down.

This is a pretty simplified scenario. The grants need to be qualified for. They are matching grants (although I believe you can use them to match each other). Due to the extent of the damage the cost of rehab could be higher (but would still result in a faily low cost mortgage after all the grants). But you get the idea - someone need to start crunching numbers.

The money is available now - but none of this can take place if the owner won't be living there. We need to find out what Greenleaf's plans are for the building. But until someone steps forward as an alternate buyer (homeowner or a developer who would sell it to a homeowner), who would do something better than Greenleaf - we can't just let the building further rot either.

I think of myself as a preservationist - but I think preservationists need to provide alternate solutions rather than just pick at the bad ones being proposed.

I'd be willing to work with anyone who wants to sit down with Greenleaf and discuss their plans, or anyone who would be serious about taking on this project as a homeowner. The City would have more of a reason to block Greenleaf if there was a better option - without a better option Greenleaf may be the only other recourse to further decay.

Harvey

The biggest problem? The city of Buffalo will let these building literally fall down without fining the owner. Look at the East Side of the city for the love of Pete. What is absolutley bizarre is when a prperty owner who is fixing up a building gets slapped with a fine. You can be working on your house and if you are replacing a window that takes a few extra days to install look out man! All the while the house next door rots away because the owner lives out of town so the city considers it a hassle to track the guy down. The fining systems in place here are totally messed up! The ex owner of this Porter property should be in jail for the letting this house got to rot. The new owner should have known better than to buy it for parking. Now he or she is responsible for it. What will the city do? Probably fine the house next door that has a loose gutter.

Jim,AeP this house is a few blocks northeast of D'Youville. I know that the Fargo Estates block club has come to an understanding with the college to no longer encroach upon the residential blocks on the South side of Porter. Parking is a huge issue for the college (and has a big impact on the neighborhood!) A few years ago, the college was rather aggressively approaching homeowners about purchasing homes and at one point, they took one down behind the new gym, for parking. It left a gap on Jersey Ave and the block club was in an uproar, succeeded in getting a "greenspace" buffer and eventually, an "understanding" that the College back off that side of Porter. In recent years, growth (and rather nice development) has been on the Connecticut side of the campus and has actually converted blight to a nice block where the new dorms are. Anyway, the point is that it's a delicate subject to invite D'Youville in on that side of Porter, especially so far into the residential blocks. I hope someone from KCA (Kleinhans Community Assn) will read and weigh in on this. I will email a link to Councilman Bonifacio's office, in hopes that he will post a comment as well.

This looks fixable. Why doesn't this city have rules against tearing down with no re-building plan in place? This is a city, not a suburb. Surface parking lots shouldn't be allowed for consideration at all.

Correction:

"Laid to waste." I wrote waist. LOL!

I concure STEEL.

The elected officials in our Buffalo govenment are perception managers and neo cons like George Bush with the exception of three common council members.

They let that Texas flipper go wild in Buffalo and they allow other anti Buffalo exploiters to have free reign and destroy Buffalo. Just as long as they make contributions to their election campaigns.

Hey anybody notice the $170 to 200 k stolen at Hopewell to gamble at local casinos? Buffalo Council President Franscyk is a sham like Rumsfeld.

The elected City of Buffalo government is packed with perception managers that are just staying the coarse. Someday I hope to read that some of them are indicted like Abramoff or the bums that took bribes to build Rich Stadium in Orchard Park.

This house shouldn't be logically torn down but hey we live in Buffalo. We could invite Borat to m.c. a party in front of this structure as it is torn down and raise money for a limo for Hevesi's family.

Olygirl,

Working with the City and Preservation Board, etc. Isn't as bad as Dave paints it. I stir things up a little sometimes but it's the exception more than the rule. Steel sent me your contact information and I'd love to help you with this property or another one.

I'll send you something later this evening. Welcome to Buffalo.

Harvey

The owner may be tearing this down as he will save money and pay less in taxes to have this property turned into a parking lot rather than fix or have it sit empty. Look at Main Place Mall, the owner don't care about having shoppers and retail stores. They get a write off for having empty space. It's all a scam and we need to make it public and get these people outta here.

I am not L.

Forget D'Youville. They won't help you.

I just love how D'Youville College dumps all their leaves in the street at Fargo and Porter. That shows no civic pride or responsibility from an institution of higher learning and enlightenment. How come all the rich sections of Buffalo get to dump their leaves in the streets instead of bagging them? Why is there so much economic favortism in Buffalo.

Let's get back on topic. A home like that would take about a million dollars to build today. It has historic value and is part of our heritage that should not be so hastely be knocked down. Ohh bop, bop, bop.

One more thing I believe that the large apartment building next door to this building has an extensive 911 record over the last decade that includes homicide, fire, and numerous other criminal activities.

Tare down the next door apartment building. It is a crime magnet.

Piedaterre my apologies for raking up a long on going problem on the West Side where Holy Angeles Church and D'Youville College fails to render to ceasar the things that belong to ceasar. Instead these two entities dump massive amounts of debris into the streets and even create conditions that are hazardous to driving.

Absolutely the current parking situation for D'Youville College and Holy Angles contributes towards the West SIde becoming more run down.

The City of Buffalo recycling is a preposterous class oriented program. At the time when we receive our User Fee (Tax) bill there is an insert telling the citizens of Buffalo to place their leaves in clear plastic bags and set them next to the totes. The garbage men come and throw those leaves that should be recycled in with the regular garbage. Institutions like D'Youville College and Holy Angles have massive amounts of leaves blown into unsafe piles onto our city streets. The rich streets in Buffalo also dump their leaves into the streets. I believe the City of Buffalo sends the vacumn truck out to places like Woodbridge, Rumsey Road. and Penhurst streets and cleans up the leaf mess while the working sections of Buffalo are held to a different standard. In other cities the leaves are recycled into mulch to be used someday as top soil. Here in the glorious empire of Buffalo D'Youville educates for the future and acts like the Middle Ages. If they could get away with it they would be throwing their rotton garbage out from the upper tower windows onto our streets as we pass by.

As for this topic of one of Buffalo oldest architecture gems and the connection it has to recyclying, leaves, is this: there is unspoken favortism towards streets where connected players in the system live. Projects that people like the Rigas or Masiello or Wilmers family push get showered with money while the most historic housing in Buffalo is laid to waist by unenforced housing laws which were passed to preserve our community and our quality of life.

Council President Franczyk should be figuratively tared and feathered. He is a useless windbag.

Organic you sound like L to bad we could have done without attacks

Perry,

If the people don't get it the government will not get it.

It is the people of Buffalo who need to start understanding how important these buildings are!

This ties-in with the recent post about the Brisbane Building, as Seymour Knox's first house is directly across the street & was designed by Beebe. H.P.Beebe, the "Son" of the firm, lived on the next block.

Olygirl, Yes Harvey is the one to ask. He could also tell you if it is difficult to work with the city, and the Preservation Board, when restoring an old home. Harvey has made the news on that very issue quite a lot lately. Our city is a dream to work with when it comes to restoring old properties, and so are the neighbours. No one here is shy about telling you what you can, or can't, or should, or must do. So you definitely will not be lacking in opinions from other people. This website lately should give you an indication of what it's like. No matter how much you spend on, say, landscaping, there will be someone who thinks it's not "inviting" enough, or historically accurate enough, or not progressive or contemporary enough. Maybe the colors you choose will not fit in with the landmark garden around Symphony Circle. Don't worry, you're sure to get lots of "help" in the form of friendly advice.

organic, it's not the building but the people. Demolition of the buildings means the people will just move somewhere else. It doesn,Aeot solve any problems. All it does is ruin the character and the reason people like cities, giving them an excuse to leave. Demolition solves nothing only spreads the problems around. I agree with everyone else. The city should have a strong arm when it comes to negligent landlords.

It's amazing to me that the city will sue a rabbit for building a home that isn't architecturally significant, or for bloking the poor sqirrel's priceless view, but this is allowed to happen.

But, if you read some other article's here, it beomes obvious that many Buffalonians prefer a surfae parking lot to a building. So who knows?

I've lived (owned, restored and landscaped) in that area for 15 years and it's true that the apartment building on the corner is no great asset to the neighborhood. It wasn't long ago that you couldn't walk by it, without getting solicited for something or another. Although I'm pleased that the previous owner of the house no longer has it, it's not encouraging to think that the owner of the apartment building would do any better by it ,Aei parking lot or otherwise! Without doubt, this house should not be destroyed any further, as we do not need "the first missing tooth" on this still-majestic part of Porter Avenue (which is a NATIONAL HISTORIC SITE, not just a Buffalo one). Supposedly, this status should make it nearly impossible to demolish. Yet, "old style" Buffalo management would find a way to allow it. Nick Bonifacio is a great advocate for our wonderful west side and its fabulous housing stock but, he's only 1 guy. Will our "new Buffalo" mayor allow this? The Preservation Board can't be entrusted with such a decision, on the heels of their inane Keller Bros. building decision. What do we have to start doing in this city? ,Aei forming human body chains around these treasures??? What was the current owner thinking, when he bought it to knock it down!? Did he think that the owner/OCCUPY investors in the neighborhood wouldn't care what he wants to do to our tree-lined, old-house-lined parkway? NOTE TO ALL ABSENTEE OWNERS and wannabe ones: WE CARE! Buy elsewhere! or live here for a while, do a little outreach to the neighbors, get a clue! Meanwhile, let's say "we" save the house from demolition (that would be my vote) then, what? It's still a ravaged house next to a less-than-fabulous apartment building. Is there a "win" outcome that's even possible??? What is it? Is there a reader willing to buy the owner out, put money into restoring the home and put up with (or help make changes at) the apartment building? Seems insurmountable, doesn't it? I am so invested in the area my teeth hurt! and I can't come up with a solution. Steel, what would you suggest? Readers? Nick? Byron? The only way out that I can imagine is someone with deep pockets buying BOTH the house and the apartment building and making BIG changes. The house was built first and how majestic it must have been on that odd-shaped corner (like the one at Porter & West) before the apartment got jammed up so close. I'm not saying tear the apartments down but, there must be a way to somehow integrate the house with them, in an upscale way. hmmmmmmmm, Rocco?

Perhaps D'Youville should consider moving to the eastside of Buffalo or the southside of Buffalo where there is more land.

Just say no to rooming houses. They're pimples on the ass of Buffalo's West Side. I live in a part of the city where there are many rooming houses, and the people who live in them and walk up and down the street all day look like extras from a Day of the Dead movie. Those poor people need to be in organized care, some kind of mental health facility, for their own sake as well as the sake of the West Side. It's a shame that the city ever allowed this mansion to be converted into a rooming house, but there are so many other mansions and former Pan Am Expo hotels that have suffered in much the same way.

Statistics show that over 6 million passengers cross the Peace Bridge every year. The Niagara Street and Porter Corridor should not be seeing the level of poverty and despair its witnessing.

Answer: Mafia.

If we could demolish our way to greatness, the East Side would be the epicenter of lush urban wealth and regeneration.

If ample parking solved our problems, downtown, with its 27,500+ spaces, would be buzzing so audibly with shoppers, theatergoers, club hoppers, workers, and new construction that they'd hear it all the way to Niagara Falls.

It's about time we called demolition what it really is: urban amputation, with about as much chance of spontaneous limb regeneration. Cities are not lizards who just grow another tail if you lop one off.

We should not have to launch a d*mned petition every time a fine structure in a historic district is threatened.

City Hall should have the same ethic that surgeons have: amputation is the last resort, not the first. It may be more cost-effective to amputate and it sure delivers instant, visible results, but there are reasons why we make costly, strenuous efforts to keep every limb. We don't say to car crash victims, Well, sorry, you can't save everything.

Our neighborhoods are living organisms just as much as your body or mine are, and deserve the same commitment to their integrity.

Organic,AeP that leaf issue has been a bone of contention w/ me for years!!! As has the disparate allocation of city services to the non-tax paying side of the street (the Church). Holy Angels gets mountains of leaves removed every year and that side of the street gets cleaned almost weekly in the summer. Homeowners on the other side of the street have to bag their mountains of leaves (and chestnuts) and end up shovelling the crud from the street so the storm sewers don't clog. I have been trying thru our Councilman, for 2-3 years now, to get some consideration for an alternate parking, in-tandem garbage/street-cleaner program by the Sanitation Dept. For one thing, it's amusing how the Church side of Porter is no-parking all week ,Aei except Sundays ,Aei when it must be somehow(?) "safer"?! If it's OK on Sundays, I ask, why not on Wednesdays too (garbage day) so the street cleaners can address the crud at the curb on the north/east side of the street? Maybe even trim trees once a year? They do a similar thing in Montr/(c)al. It could be a pilot program on Porter and expand to other tree-dense streets if it works! I would imagine there would be benefits in storm/drainage lines, the street-cleaners use the gas and time already to bypass the problem areas and our city woul look and function better! Sorry to go so off-topic for this post but, so far, this has been my only public forum for this suggestion. Organic got me riled,AeP (thanks!)

Steel, what prominent resident lived at the house when it was built? "Save 419 Porter Avenue" is not a great rallying cry. It could only take an hour to look it up in the Social Register from the time period and a perusal through the scrapbooks.

Remember when some downtown interests referred to AM&A's only as 591 Main Street or something? They know the cachet of a name when it has great historical and cultural meaning, and they know how insignificant something can sound when it is merely an address.

Imagine how hard it would have been to rally people around "Save 19 Coe Place." It was a great thing that Hamilton Ward, founder of the Erie County parks system and state attorney general under Franklin Roosevelt, lived there.

Great comment Harvey....Good to hear from you on BRO again.

The one thing I have to add is that the option of tear down and / or allow to rot in place is available to owners only because of city policies that allow owners to follow that course of action. If people were to buy a house in a historic neighborhood knowing that it would be a very arduous course to tear it down and that neglecting their property would be treated like the criminal activity that it is we would not have this problem in Buffalo. Buffalo really can not continue to allow these demolitions and continued neglect. Looking at the satellite image reveals a huge area of empty space adjacent to this house and the apartment building. There is NO reason to tear down this building.

Oh, and by the way, Organic is not "L," "C" is. Remember, "L" likes to shout in ALL CAPS towards the end of his blog-hoggin' posts. Check out C's posts elswhere on BRO and I think that conoisseurs of the full throttle, bigoted, ranting L experience will agree.

If Buffalo cannot maintain the urban fabric even in those more successful areas of the city that hang on, then it has lost its last draw for people thinking of returning or relocating.

Can this local government ever get it, or at least get out of the way?

Enforce the laws already on the books, Buffalo (and for that matter, America). When demolitions are repeatedly approved in designated historic districts, what hope is there? Who will take anything seriously?

Where is D'Youville College on this one? They're like two blocks away, they already have enough crime to deal with in this neighborhood, they don't need a vacant field or parking lot to add to this. I understand that it is a small school, but they have limited land, and I'd think that they would jump all over to the opportunity to buy this house and convert it into offices or something like that.

The people are tired, disenfranchised and pessimistic if not fatalistic.

Yes there are incentives but so many in Buffalo are living off Social Security or living in incredibly low paying unstable jobs. It wears on you the poverty, the schools, the government, the gangs, the drugs, the litter, the poorly maintained buildings, ... as if life isnt hard enough living in the city is one parking ticket after another. God forbid an illness or layoff takes away whatever savings someone has managed to scrape up.

And to top it off....to wait in life for foot stamps or medicaid or some form of help and be told that you have to much savings or you have a house or you have a car or you have to cash in a pension in order to get temporary assistance...while an immigrant or an irresponsible minority was hasnt done a single responsible thing in their life gets a state and federal program handed to them on a single platter is devastating.

I want these buildings saved to..and I want someone to step up and restore them but for the average person in Buffalo their just to marginalized in a city without wealth, opportunity or education. Im grateful if they just plant a tree, mow the lawn and do simple maintenance. Many dont even do that!

Until this city stops burdening its residents with unions and civil service patronage and burocratic parking tickets...and puts its energy into job creation there isnt going to be the people or the wealth to save anything.

These houses look so incredible in the pictures when their built with the dark colors and the shingles and the paned windows. Its not just letting these buildings deteriorate but painting them these bright colors makes them look awefull.

Shingles are not victorians....EB Green shingle houses are kinda like prairie houses....their supposed to be organic and blend with the urban forest. Their supposed to be surrounded by a canopy of stately elms and greenery...and blend into it.

Oh gosh the poverty of Buffalo....I get so tired of the poverty.

Olygirl, from the tone of several comments you've made since early summer, I think you'd make an excellent addition to our little neighborhood and the city as a whole. Perhaps Steel could put you in touch with Harvey, who knows the current owner of 419. If that doesn't pan out, I'll bet he could hook you up with some other old house in need of caring owner/residents. If there would be a way to make it happen, I'd love to have someone (like you seem to be) take over the fading-fast, once lovely Vic next to mine. The absentee owner is neglecting it into ruin and It's been in the in rem auction at least 3 times since 2000 (paid off at the 11th hour). It's the eyesore on an otherwise beautiful block with all owner-occupied, cared-for homes.

This house should be saved. Can we put it on the Preservation Coalition Website and give it to someone willing to restore it.

Thank you both so much!

It's sometimes hard to explain to my friends and family exactly why I fell in love with Buffalo...

I feel a deep connection to the place, it's history and the people in a way that is tough to convey....

You both have reaffirmed the one thing I know for sure; Buffalo has a soul that is almost palpable and it's the humanity of the folks living and working to honor her past while looking to the future that will be her saving grace.

I feel truly honored to have the opportunity to make Buffalo my home and can't wait to get involved, roll my sleeves up and get to work alongside my neighbors and earn my status as a Buffalonian.

Thanks again, I will contact Harvey....my email is : gaiamama@hotmail.com

I was just checking the website and reading some of the previous posts about this area.

According to the New Millenium this area is part of the Niagara Gateway Project. An International Gateway from downtown Buffalo to the Peace Bridge with new curbs, sidewalks, street signs, lamp posts, possibly center tree lined meridien......and possible restoration of storefronts.

Statistics show that over 6 million passengers cross the Peace Bridge every year. The Niagara Street and Porter Corridor should not be seeing the level of poverty and despair its witnessing.

Why is this stalled? This area should be lined with corporate offices with views of the Niagara River, the Black Rock Canal, Front Park and the Peace Bridge.

Its not just this house. Why is Elmwood and Allentown sucking up all the media attention? Niagara Street and Porter are the next Allentown...they are the next Elmwood. Yet we continue to think of it like the eastside as crime, murder and poverty....its only a couple blocks from Richmond....and its only a couple blocks from South Elmwood.

Even Grant Street has a neighborhood and business alliance for its renaissance.....maybe its time for the Elmwood, Allentown and West Villages to stop sucking all the media attention and open their arms and voices to Niagara and Porter!

419 was built in 1890 for Mr. & Mrs. Robert D. Cursons and their 5 children. The family moved to their new home from 197 Pearl in early 1891. I was in the building this summer. The fire started in the middle 2nd floor room on the east side of the building. It moved to the front, second floor room and the west, middle, 2nd floor room. The police removed me from the building before I could get to the third floor. I am sure that the third floor is also seriously damaged from the fire. All of the copper plumbing and heating pipes had been removed from the building by thieves, as well as two first floor windows. The first floor is still in good condition.