A Whole New Level of Regionalism
Recent news about the Bills hosting home games in Toronto has many of us worrying about an eventual full-scale relocation. Toronto, we're told, is home to the successful companies and wealthy individuals needed to support the club seating that makes an NFL team's bottom line work.
The Bills tell us that they are simply trying to tap the northern portion of our region, and that we can't survive as an NFL city without doing so. If that's the case-if we really do need to share our team to survive in the future-what is the best way to do it?
The Bills, like UB, the Martin House, and Albright Knox, are among the best assets we have as we continue to think about and find new ways to approach regionalism. Perhaps we can use them to to jumpstart the cooperation with Toronto that we so frequently seem to mention on our civic to-do list.
Consider the possibilities of a gleaming new Stadium in Niagara Falls, Ontario for the slightly rebranded Buffalo Niagara Bills. The gameday drive to the stadium would be slightly longer for the average WNYer, but much shorter for the wealthy Torontonians we seem to need for the future. Moving the Bills out of Erie County would save millions that are currently spent on stadium upgrades, security, etc., and end the rumors of a more distant relocation for the long term.
Our new big market Bills would forever link Buffalo, Niagara Falls, and Toronto more effectively than any Partnership campaign ever could. They would force all of us to reconsider what it means to be from Buffalo, and what the actual boundaries of Buffalo are. On local, national, and international levels, Buffalo would be linked with the natural draw of the Falls and the cosmpolitan progress of Toronto.
Relocating the stadium would also add an impetus for additional cross-border infrastructure to support daily commuters, commerce, and shoppers. The bridges, customs offices, and rail connections that might follow would be resources to help our economy embrace our unique border location.
Sharing the Bills means giving a little bit, but also has the potential to yield enormous benefits and secure our status as an NFL city (or region). So--let's Go Buffalo--right across the River!
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xosder
This is regionalism at it's best ! Nice work anonymous author.
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al-alo
we need blue jays games in return. regionalism isnt a one way street!!!
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Biniszkiewicz
I'm doubtful that a Toronto based ownership group would want to locate anywhere other than Toronto.
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bison716
I think we should definitely invest building a brand new Bills Stadium downtown, either near the waterfront or somewhere behind City Hall, with a "Grand Train Station" that would connect it smaller short-run local stations and long-run regional destinations, which could include our new Casino, Waterfront (Bass Pro & Inner Harbor), Outer Harbor, Elmwood (near the new Art Gallery), Niagera Falls (Casino area), Clifton Hill district (Canada-side), Downtown Toronto, Rochester, Eire, & Syracuse. Think of all the fans we have (region-wise) that would pack downtown during sundays and what great varity of restaurants and businesses might evolve from all these great cities to have easy access to Downtown Buffalo. The smaller short-run destinations would get outsiders more familar with our other destinations we offer besides the Bills game (Elmwood, Inner & Outer Harbors) and would connect our city as a whole alot better. A major investment, but think how great it would be for our city and regional fans!
But... I like the cheaper Niagera Falls plan too!!
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gaustad
THIS IS A GREAT IDEA !
CASINO AND FOOT BALL IN NIAGAR FALLS. Too many people coming over now to shop!
would save the Bills and attract people back to the falls, which is currently a shithole.
No reason for this team to be in Orchard Park.
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RonR
Nice idea based on effort but if the Bills moved to Toronto, they would move to smack dab into the middle of downtown. The corporate sponsorship would want a short drive to their luxury boxes and a drive to Niagara Falls is not short enough.
Not sure on the numbers but in some areas I think luxury boxes go for north of 200k a season. Obviously this is not possible in Buffalo but there is enough money in Toronto to support something like this.
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TownLine
This is exactly what I've been thinking for the Bills. I'm a big fan, but the team is a major drain on local money, with relatively little economic benefit. Why not use the opportunity to make the team self sufficient, while also giving international branding to Buffalo-Niagara-Toronto as a single, binational region. Good job, author.
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jkracken
Look, if green bay Wisconsin can host a football team, there is no reason Buffalo can't. Build a stadium downtown. Maybe the Seneca Gaming Corp, as one of the largest, best run, and most sucessful Corporations in WNY would be interested in a football team.
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DXMontagnes
Build a new stadium in "Niagara," but make it Niagara County, NY. Still close enough for most everyone in Buffalo, closer for Toronto and Rochester fans, but keeps the team in the US. Perhaps near the Lewiston-Queenston bridge. Improve passenger rail access from all three cities. Is Orchard Park really that much more "Buffalo" than Niagara County is? Hardly. There's absolutely nothing redeeming out there when its not a Sunday afternoon.
But this post is generally the right sentiment, especially in terms of it being a much more concrete statement for the "Niagara" region than any government compact or business group could.
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Rayzor
This absolutely makes sense and I was championing this idea to anyone that would listen over the past few weeks. Ideally it would be in N.F. USA to help their economy a bit, but that's not entirely necessary -- no need to deal with the corrupt unions up there to build a stadium, when we can get Ontario to foot the "Bill" (pun intended). I just hope it would be an outdoor stadium (or a retractable dome at the very least).
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probuff
i am actually the author. thanks for the positive feedback. as for the comments about toronto interests wanting to bring the team all the way to toronto, this idea inolves beating them to the table and taking action before they ever get the opportunity to get a crack at the bills.
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al-alo
green bay is a community owned francise. and the NFL is not about to let that model replicate, dont you know, there is money to be made!!!
now, call me a socialist. ok. now thats out of the way, i have a revolutionary idea that creates a counterbalancing threat to the relocation or loss of our team. now bear with me, as its a bit of a circuitous route.
as you know, the braves moved out of buffalo decades ago, and we are not about to get a new team. but dont worry, we are in good company: las Vegas, San Diego, Baltimore, Columbus, Pittisburgh, KC, New Orleans. . .
you get the picture.
so, and hear me out, these cities create a new league. a league of community owned franchises. ones that wont move. ones that are owned by the community; whether by the actual local government, local shareholders, as a non profit or a combination thereof. whatever.
rules govening the league could cover anything from a strict code of conduct, location within city limits, to requiring teams have city residents in the lineup. but it doesnt matter. all that matters is these teams are an asset to their respective cities.
but what does this do? it creates competition. it creates an alternative.
and most importantly, it creates a veiled threat to the NFL. move and we'll take matters into our own hands, and they be playing football in LA against the Buffalo Bisons Football Club.
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WeLovePanos
Luxury boxes in LA, Dallas, NY Giants/Jets, Chicago etc all go for over $1million per season and have waiting lists to buy at those prices. Buffalo gets no more than 80-100k for its luxury boxes, meaning the economics just wont work when Mr Wilson passes on for the team to stay here. A new owner cannot pay the debt service and keep the team here, the numbers just dont add up
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distas
Bills staium on our HUGE emtpy waterfront and extend the light rail.........boom
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icecreamsub
This would work well for us but there is no way that Gord and Trevor and the rest of the Toronto money supporting the team would ever allow the games to be played in the Falls.
al-alo - what time did you start drinking today?
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al-alo
hey panos, what about all the other smaller/medium market teams? cleveland, cinci, pitt, minnesota, GB, TB, indy. . .im sure they arent getting a mill per box. and they are mostly successful.
and the ralph sits more than many other stadiums in the league. id bet 15000 more fans at a game can make up a good bit of the difference on those corporate boxes.
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BuffedOut
It's so sad that the diehard, thoroughly devoted fans of Buffalo are really not good enough for the ownership of the Bills. Buffalo defines so much of itself through its sports teams, especially the Bills. Now the money-making enterprise must look to the lucrative market of Toronto for future viability. It's understadable, but sad. Unless a consortium of local business people in Buffalo step up to buy the team when the time comes, then we all must say good-bye to the Bils when they are moved elsewhere.
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Prodigal-Son
I'm a fan of regionalism, but in money saving ventures, such as police. Calling the Bills a drain on the locally economy, and moving it to Ontario to save the taxpayers money is killing the patient to cure the disease. The positive media and national stature from having an NFL team has done more good for the city than many of our regional sales ventures (We're Talking Proud!).
The Bills are more than an economic issue, and I sometimes think we on the site reduce everything to money - jobs created, jobs lost, taxes collected, corporate profits reinvested, money into and out of the city. The Bills are cultural, as is evidenced by the collective city-wide mood on a Monday in the Fall - either good or bad depending on the outcome of the game the day before.
I am surprised to see so many posts supporting moving the team a short distance away, when there is usually such an outpouring of discourse over moving anything (office parks, retail, malls, retaurants, housing, etc) to the suburbs. The right place for the Bills are downtown. No one has a problem getting to Sabres games. I went the game last Friday, and the familly to the right of me was from Hamilton, and the family to the left was from Rochester. Both families were amazed the other would drive 1 hour for the games. But they do, its easy, and the Arena is full.
"Saving" the taxpayers by moving the team is a recipe for disaster. Play a game a year in Toronto, sell some luxury boxes to RIM and Air Canada, and build a larger fan base. But keep the team here, and when the Ralph doesn't do the job anymore, build a stadium downtown.
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bison716
THE BILLS MUST STAY! THE BILLS MUST STAY! THE BILLS MUST STAY! THE BILLS MUST STAY! THE BILLS MUST STAY! THE BILLS MUST STAY!
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HighPockets
Before we get too ambitious and decide to jump the river there are probably a few other locations that should be considered. As bison716 said, downtown B-Lo would make a great home for a stadium. Squeeze it in with the numerous other waterfront developments that are on the horizon and it's one more cog in the collective draw of the area. Make it a stadium with a retractable roof and you invite the possibility of a superbowl here in the queen city. If regionalism is what you seek then why not somewhere around Batavia? Play off of a population base that stretches from Buffalo to Rochester. Placing the stadium across the border would create a number of logistical nightmares, not the least of which being the approximately 30,000 season ticket holders filing across the bridge on gameday. Before we look to our neighbors to the north we should try to solidify our team through the western new york community.
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icecreamsub
Move the UB Amherst campus downtown and build a stadium downtown that could be used for both the BIlls and Bulls. the Sabres never play home games on saturdays, usually only fridays...so it would be great to have people downtown all weekend long. i don't think the downtown bars, restaurants, hotels, parking lots etc would object.
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flyguy
They move the team to Toronto or Toronto goes out of its way to steal from its neighbor I hope we get a huge backlash against pouring money over the border into their economy. You dont stab your neighbor in the back or kick someone while they are down.
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flyguy
The UB Amherst campus will probably not be moving anywhere in my lifetime. Theres just too much investment in that complex to just say oops and shut it down to build a new one. Its to the point where its not logical.
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icecreamsub
the fact that it is not logical might just be what it takes to get it done.....it seems we've proven time and time again that this city is very resilient to logical planning.
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flyguy
To support a move to Toronto in the thinking of "regionalization" in this case I think is crazy. The fact here is that Buffalo are two totally different cities in different countries in different metro areas and the Hamilton area sits in between them as well. To allow the Bills to move and support taht based on regionalization is just a nice pleasant way to admit defeat and invite more losses. Western New York should fight like mad to keep their Bills in town. Toronto has enough assets to keep its spirits up. Why should we willingly watch ours go away. Whats next? The Sabres go to Hamilton? We all mutually decide that te Buffalo area isnt good enough to have "big city" assets like Sheas and pack that up and move it away as well? Lets move the Albright Knox collection too to Toronto, a larger, more world class city with higher class folks with better taste in the arts? Is this what we want to support? Its making excuses to make ourselves feel better if we take up a rosey view of this move. KEEP THE BILLS IN BUFFALO!
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Hoss
Downtown Buffalo would be the best place for the "Buffalo" Bills to be playing. A retractable roof would be ideal. And how about having some concerts there while you are at it. Buffalo used to be a big stop for National concert tours. What happened? It seems crazy the amount of money that goes to a stadium build and upkeep that's only utilized for eight days out of an entire year. How much benefitting the local economy can that do? Especially when everyone is just drinking cans of Blue in the parking lot. Now if we had a pro baseball team in downtown... 81 home games per year folks. There's a lot more economic return on that kind of investment. Just make it American league. And what about an NBA team? All three could play in the same building if designed properly.
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stephenjames716
a new stadium downtown would do wonders...
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Hospitable
Wow.... let's pass the cost of the Bills of to Niagara County... excellent idea.. they're in much better shape than we are financially... Buffalo-Niagara Bills....has a certain ring to it? ( I.e. the only other team with an area for their name is the NEW ENGLAND PATRIOTS.. maybe if we were the Buffalo-Niagara Bills.. we'll have a winning season).
I don't by wilsons economic crying.... when it comes down to basics.. the bills sell tickets, top 10 of the league... I think its what 8/10 of our home games are sold out??? and wilson bitches about luxury boxes b/c he's got nothing else to complain about. The fact that our tickets are some of the cheapest in the league is nothing to be proud about... raise the prices $10 a ticket if you can't put food on your table Ralph. and sell the naming rights to the stadium too u loser.
Play your games in Toronto... it wouldn't make sense for the Bills to leave... I don't think many ppl realize how many fans... and Bills haters are across the country. Along with the fact that there are NUMEROUS OTHER TEAMS THAT PErform worse attendence wise than the Bills do. ( ATTENTION MIAMI DOLPHINS AND THE WORST ATTENDENCE RECORD IN THE LEAGUE)...
Forget about Las VEgas... Goodell would never let a city that associated with gambling have a pro. sports team.
Downtown Buffalo is the best place for a stadium.... NYS isn't just going to let their only foot baLL TEAM go.. a newer, domed, stadium thats within walking distance of all the best restaurants and the biggest hotels is the place to go!
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RonR
icecreamsub
Just where do you plan to find the BILLIONS to locate both UB and the Bills downtown? It really gets old with the argument of UB. It is in Amherst and the majority of the undergrad will always stay in Amherst. It helps out the region and instead of focusing on taking back UB from Amherst, the discussion should be to grow Buff State. I really do not understand why Buff State could not grow to 20k students in 15 years. Just imagine having two strong and powerful schools in the region.
In terms of the Bills, the region needs to get creative and Ralph needs to help.
For example, sell seat licenses for a new stadium. They did this in Charlotte. "Indeed, alternatives to taxpayer subsidies are available. The NFL expansion Carolina Panthers, while accepting $40-45 million worth of land from the city of Charlotte, will play in a new stadium privately financed, in part, through the sale of permanent seat licenses. These license sales guarantee the purchasers the right to buy season tickets in perpetuity. They also can be bought and sold in the marketplace."
If a new downtown dome were to be built, seating should be around 75k. If the 40k of the seats were sold with 2.5k seat licenses, that would raise 100 MILLION. A seat license would afford the owner the right to purchase those seats for season tickets for life. I know 5k sounds like a lot of money but I feel there are 40k fans who want to see the Bills stay and would consider this a sound investment for generations of their family.
The second thing that needs to happen would come from Ralph. While he still has some power, he needs to strike a deal with the NFL that if Buffalo were to build a new downtown domed stadium, the NFL would provide 1-2 Super Bowls in the first 15 years the stadium was open. The closest comparison was in Detroit. They projected that the Super Bowl brought in anywhere from $115 - $125 Million to the local economy.
Now Ford Field in Detroit cost around $430 Million to build. When you factor in the $100 Million for seat licenses and effect of the Super Bowl, you get about half of the funding over time. Added to this the "fair share" NY state owes the region for help in comparison to whatever fund they are giving to build the new stadiums for the Nets, Mets and Yankees.
Additional to this, there is talks of HS rail connecting Rochester to Buffalo in the next 15 years. If this were to happen, the Bills could easily reach out to metro Rochester more so then they do today. A 60 train ride from downtown to downtown would most certainly help ticket sales. Maybe even a gesture in changing the name of the team once this happened to the New York Bills would open more doors to the regions fans. I could care less what they were called as long as they are in Buffalo.
I also do not see why B. Thomas Golisano would not be a good candidate to take over the team with the increased connection to Rochester and the team being located a couple of block away from his current team. Hell rename the Sabres to the New York Sabres or the WNY Sabres.
I would rather call both teams by different location names as long as the location stayed the same.
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BuffedOut
When the stadium was originally built in Orchard Park, no one saw downtown Buffalo as viable for any number of reasons a few of which were racist. The UB campus was built in Amherst because there was room to expand and the population density was predicted. It's too late now, decades too late.
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bison716
THE BILLS MUST STAY! THE BILLS MUST STAY! THE BILLS MUST STAY! THE BILLS MUST STAY! THE BILLS MUST STAY! THE BILLS MUST STAY!
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atypical
Tap into Southern Ontario but keep the Bills in WNY. I don't mind building a new stadium in Niagara Falls, NY but Niagara Falls, Ontario, has no connection. I'd rather see our region invest money on high speed trains between Toronto --> Buffalo <-- Albany... Get this region connected and Buffalo Niagara will flourish.
I wish Buffalo Rising would offer more substance on the REAL issues affecting WNY and outlets to get involved and help rescue our community from Albany.
We all know that high taxes and big government hurt our economy yet we do nothing about it. We can all point to the useless leaders that we elect and continue to do so every other year.
The NFL is giving us a chance to save our beloved Bills. We have basically have five years to prove this region can step up and support the Bills. If we lose the Bills, we will lose the heart and soul of our region and stifle any momentum from the past couple years.
Most of the development we see in WNY is a tease. Yes, it's great to see what Issa is doing with the Statler. It's great to see a new government funded court house. Yes, it would be nice to see the Gate Circle Tower or City Tower go up but who knows if that will come in our lifetime.
You want to see this place take off? You want Buffalo to rise?
Focus on Albany. Focus on City Hall/Erie County. Focus on the Buffalo Niagara Partnership/Enterprise - that organization has done NOTHING but suppress our region - organization should be disbanded immediately. Focus on Buffalo Place - that non-profit has done NOTHING with Main Street - organization should be disbanded immediately.
Set measurable goals and create action plans that MAKE a difference and lower taxes. Don't talk about becoming business friendly - BE business friendly - put policies in place to grow NOW; not tomorrow.
Buffalo Rising is great. It has attracted great dialogue. But we must rise above the bickering and tap into this resource and take it to the next level. Pissing a way one of our most treasured and beloved assets and bitching every step of the way is NOT the way to go.
Go Buffalo!
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SLEEPL8
Successful professional sports franchises are not a tax burdens on the local economy. They are the opposite. The "millions that are currently spent on stadium upgrades, security, etc." should be far offset by the revenue generated in and around a centrally located stadium. The Bills can stay in Erie County and not be a drain on the system. You are correct stating that they need to move. The move should be a short one, leave Orchard Park and move to down town Buffalo. The market for the Bills can taken advantage of our extended market with downtown stadium. As usual Erie County dropped the ball.
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j02138
Build a multi-purpose, retractable roof stadium/convention center in downtown Buffalo. Kills two birds with one stone.
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TownLine
It is foolish to outright reject any idea of locating a new stadium in Ontario. There is an enormous, flourishing economic region just across the river that we take no advantage of because we are too short sighted to consider them even our neighbors. Not wanting to put a stadium there, which may actually be closer to downtown that OP, is all about people fearing for their civic pride. When are we going to put all this territorial thought behind us an truly act like a region - Buffalo, NIagara and Southern Ontario. Its that closed mindedness that has created the Amherst vs. Downtown Battles, its limited us from taking advantage of UB's enormous capacity (despite its shitty location), and its kept a population divided for decades.
Our Binational status gives us an asset here that few other places in the country have to take advantage of. How stupid can we be to consistently reject that. Moving the Bills (which most people watch from home anyway) a few miles north is a GREAT way to draw national attention to this asset. Anyone think the NFL might be interested in a Superbowl in Niagara Falls?? - what an amazing setting that would be.
Believe it or not, most people don't associate Niagara Falls, one of the greatest attractions in the world, with Buffalo. People have no idea that Buffalo is so close to one of the largest metropolitan areas (Toronto) in North America. Many don't realize there is anything dynamic here beyone a crumbling rust belt, deserted industrial town. To not take the opportunity to show the nation there is so much more here, in our city AND our region, because we don't feel like crossing a bridge to see our football team is shortsighted and stupid.
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flyguy
How many lawsuits would the region have to endure to build a new stadium in downtown? What huge parcel of land would not come with its share of historic preservation issues, community outrage, etc? It would require demolition or the consolidation of lots to piece together something sizeable enough to build it downtown and then you end up with a "street grid" fight or its screws with Ellicotts street pattern or it would require demo of a vacant building thats been rotting away for 20+ years or the traffic and noise from the stadium would be too much of a burden on the neighborhood or whatever. Obviously there are many reasons why you would put tha stadium downtown including finally getting some film recognition of the city, some panoramic views, etc. but I doubt this could occur within a 5 year effort. It would probably take about 40 years to get a new stadium the way this community fights everything. Name one good place Downtown that would be developable for a big ass stadium and parking that would not be fought to the death? At best I would view the Republic Steel lands as a legitimate location but then thats not downtown and the residences around there might have a fit.
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flyguy
The fact that Southern Ontario is a thriving economic region just shows truly how flawed the thinking is that we are truly one region. Its a binational border and as such commerce doesnt freely flow across the bridges, people dont freely flow across the bridges and certainly the laws and cultures are somewhat different. Our region is Buffalo and Western New York, not Ontario and Toronto. Though it may be a nearby region and studies show that there is a relationship economically speaking its a different Country and you have to cross a border to get there, its not the same. Unless Buffalo wants to be gobbled up into the Toronto Metro and be labelled a bedroom community for Toronto I would advise keeping the Bills in Western New York. I doubt Toronto sees this any other way than an opportunity to make themselves look better. Call it regionalization all you want but when it comes down to it the regular guys and gals out there will view this as Buffalo's loss, Toronto's gain and the Torontonians will laugh at little Buffalo knowing they stole our team away along with a part of the regions dignity. You can throw all the academia and reasons why regionalizing with Southern Ontario would be a good thing but many people just dont think in that sense and its just that sort of thinking that has portrayed Buffalo as a backward, snowy wastlenad with nothing at all going for it to the legions of uninformed people who have never been here but love to put the area down. Somehow I dont think moving the Bills will be viewed very highly by the masses.
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Prodigal-Son
Townline - I too am a fan of using our proximity to Canada as an advantage. But that is to draw indutsry, corporate HQ, transportation hubs, tourists etc to THIS side of the border. Calling our area "Binational" does not erase the border. And Amherst/Buffalo is incomparable to Buffalo/Fort Erie. Buffalo and Amherst have the same government officials at the county level and above. Tax dollars and investment flow between the two. Buffalo and Fort Erie are in TWO DIFFERENT COUNTRIES. Moving an asset from this country to Canada does not help us. Bringing in tourists/dollars/investment/jobs from outside does. We need to stop robbing Peter (Buffalo) to pay Paul (Ontario/suburns,etc). Lets rob from several hundred miles away - whatever we did to court Labatt's US corporate HQ from Conn., and Cleveland BioLabs from Cleveland - lets do more of that. But we can't move investments over the border as a way to advertise the region and pretend we get our money back in what? Spillover tourist sales tax receipts?
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icecreamsub
RonR - I'm glad to see I'm not the only one living life through a pipedream; albeit yours is more thought out.
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chiknlil
Let's not forget about the fan base (and season ticket holders) from Syracuse, Albany, Rochester, and Erie, PA!
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tonyarmani
Like so many others said, the best and most reasonable solution would be to put the Bills downtown. Put them in the old freezer queen area or someplace north of the city. Haivng a state of the art stadium would be a well worth drive from Toronto/Ontario, as well as Rochester, Southern PA and even Ohio. An improved public transportation system (not only regional but intraregional) would definitely help. The real question is, are you people ready to pay for this move??
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Spaulding97
These are all great ideas, but who is gonna pay for a new Stadium with retractable roof/ convention center Downtown? Albany!!!? Sure, right after they get done with the Peace Bridge. This is tough, something has to be done either way because if this course continues, the Bills won't be here after 2012 or when Ralph dies.
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bison716
THE BILLS MUST STAY! THE BILLS MUST STAY! THE BILLS MUST STAY! THE BILLS MUST STAY! THE BILLS MUST STAY! THE BILLS MUST STAY!
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bison716
The Bills represent our struggle, our sense of attitude "so close but yet so far". If we turn our backs on our team, in essence we are turning our backs to our city. We should fight for them, the same way they fight for us every year, every sunday. We are Buffalo, we are the Bills! THE BILLS MUST STAY! THE BILLS MUST STAY! THE BILLS MUST STAY! THE BILLS MUST STAY! THE BILLS MUST STAY! THE BILLS MUST STAY!
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platt4
Oi Vey- Let's carve out 30+ acres of downtown to plop in a football stadium plus parking that is used nine times a year! This half billion dollar 'investment' will surely save downtown and Buffalo!!! Look at all the spin off development in OP since the stadium: A motel, two hot dog stands, two bars, and a Wilson Farms! Pull your collective heads out of your butts.
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brokeleg
We need a freakin stadium downtown. we need to cut out the suburban redneck crap it won't fly in the 21st century. as much as i love those snowy sunday afternoons i think its time to build a domed, environmentally friendly stadium either on the waterfront or somewhere downtown that will encourage people to walk and take public transport to get there. These pedestrian fans will spend money in downtown bars and restaurants not to mention an increase of metro ticket sales would be helpful in expanding the straight-line express. If the dome is covered with solar panels or uses geothermal heating or something i garauntee that will capture super bowl attention and international fame.
As for Toronto i say play a regular and preseason game each every year and they should have the other preseason game in Syracuse. That would definately get a lot of upstaters who are on the fence to come to our side a bit. Honestly, who cares about the preseason?
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j02138
First off, the lease runs for another 5 years, right?
Second, Ralph is still alive and can live for many more years to come. He already stated that he will not sell the team before his time is up.
Third, we still have time to encourage Ralph to pass this team on to his wife.
And finally, Bills Nation deserves another shot at local ownership. Let's see what Golisano/Rich/Jacob's can do to market this franchise. New blood can bring new life in untapped markets. This fan base has been far too loyal to just pick up and leave WNY because Toronto's appetite for US sports.
If the league wanted a team in Toronto, they would already be there.
Keep the Bills in Buffalo.
ps: Yes, I think Albany plays a role in funding this new stadium and convention center... Albany offered $1 Billion dollars to build the Jets a stadium in Manhattan; which never came about because NYC had no chance in getting the Olympics. If money is/was available for the Jets - then NY states only team deserves a share.
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brokeleg
oh, GO BILLS !
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SilentMajority
It upsets me that Ralph Wilson and the NFL are not actively looking to secure the future of the Bills in Buffalo. He has stated that he will retain ownership until he passes at which point his daughters/estate will then sell the team. But why wait? Spend the next few years testing the local waters... building up a local ownership group and giving the people of Buffalo some hope that we will still have a team 10 years from now. I believe that there should be a committee in place made of local gov't, NFL execs and current ownership whose sole responsibility is to find a solution to this matter NOW rather than later. Or is the NFL just waiting for the day Mr. WIlson dies so they can send this team off to LA. The fact that the NFL hasn't put an expansion franchise in LA leads me to believe that they are waiting to see how this situation plays out. I would love to see Mr. Wilson hold a press conference and tell us exactly what he is doing to see to it the Bills stay in Buffalo. Or maybe he doesn't care. It's time to bring this issue to the forefront NOW... before the carpet gets pulled out from under us. I'm sending this comment to the local TV stations. I hope some of you will also start voicing your opinions, thoughts, and fears. It's time to make this an issue. Thanks BRO for getting me thinking.
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BuffedOut
The Bills is a small market team No new owner in his ir her right mind would want to keep it in Buffalo. When Wilson dies (which could be any time), the franchise leaves. Everyone in Buffalo has to get used to it.
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urbanesque
Do you think that Wal*Mart could build the stadium for us if we let them build their Super Center next door. They could share the parking lot and RV lot.
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rb66
Couldn't you find a photo from this season. That photo of the Bills is from the Gregg Williams days. YUK!
The Bills belong and will remain in Buffalo!
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sayvanderlay
Can someone answer this question for me: How does playing 2 games/year in Toronto benefit anyone besides Toronto? The Bills already sellout nearly every game anyway, don't they? So, how will this even help the Bills? If the answer is that it will make more Toronto fans travel to Orchard Park, I say that's a load of crap. All it's going to do is give them football fever, and make them fight to bring the team to Toronto.
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Prodigal-Son
Sayvanderlay - The problem is not fans but luxury boxes. Luxury boxes at the Ralph go for $25K to $100K. In Dallas they go for $1 Million. Unlike ticket sales/merchandise/etc, luxury boxes are not included in revenue sharing, so the team makes whatever they can collect in luxury boxes. Not enough businesses in Buffalo want to buy luxury boxes, and its a struggle every year to sell them out. But plenty of businesses in Toronto have money for luxury boxes, which is what we need to tap into. The fan base is secondary. That's how Toronto helps. Buffalo has to compete with NFL owners in larger cities making significantly more on the same investment. If Buffalo does not have a sufficient rate of return, the next owner will go to LA where the return will be ample.
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icecreamsub
LA would never get approved by the league. They've had two different franchises there already and both failed because the local public wouldn't support the team. Las Vegas would make a stronger arguement.
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bison716
THE BILLS MUST STAY! THE BILLS MUST STAY! THE BILLS MUST STAY! THE BILLS MUST STAY! THE BILLS MUST STAY! THE BILLS MUST STAY!
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halljd39
From a previous article regarding the Buffalo Bills, I commented from a strong rumor that Thurmon Thomas, Jim Kelly and Dan Marino are working on a plan to keep the Bills in Buffalo. I also had this rumor confirmed by another reader who also heard this and seemed to know a little bit more about what was going on.
Keeping the Buffalo Bills in Buffalo is crucial. There are die-hard Bills in WNY fans that will not drive to Canada to watch an NFL game, in my opinion. The Bills have a stamp on our society here and it is important to keep them. They seem to be making positive moves in regards to the Win column, so far, already at 500. The defense, minus Poz whom was placed on the IR, seems to be working out great. Lynch is unstopable - very exciting to watch, already has a TD pass and a 100+ yard game under his belt.
Go Bills! That is the Buffalo Bills!
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CKBuffalo
I agree with j02138. We need to have a staduim and convention center combo in downtown. If we include a transportation element to the project, like rail, we could get federal funds for the project as well, reducing the costs to Erie County and NYS.
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philhoneycutt
Y'all might want to read this little article, "Government-Funded Stadiums Not Worth Price of Admission."
http://www.cato.org/pub_display.php?pub_id=2830
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vgs
and who's responsibilty does the newly renovated 74K seat stadium in OP become. How can you justify building new when we have a state of the art facility that sells out every week. Access is easy and land is pleniful where it is. The Bills are a medicore team in a small market and they sell out each week. Imagine if we were good. It does not do much good to compare our luxury seat revenue to 3-4 markets at the top of the list. Like someone else pointed out..how do we compare to KC, St Louis, Jacksonville, New Orleans, Cleveland, Pittsburgh, Baltimore, Cincinatti, Nashville, Charlotte, Indy. Aside from Toronto and LA there really is not another market that can do much better than where the team is. Toronto's support of the Blue Jay's and Raptors is really not a ringing endorsement for how well they will support another pro team.
I'd love a multi-use stadium downtown but somebody come up with an idea for OP.
And whoever said we are no longer a major concert stop, I say we do pretty well. I have recently seen (past few years) U2, Springsteen, Eminem, Simon & Garfunkle, Tom Petty (twice) and I'm going to see Neil young this month. I think Dave Mathews has sold out two shows in one year in Buffalo. I'm not a country fan but it seems like we get the biggest shows Tim McGraw, Faith Hill, Kenny Chesney, but I did catch one of Garth Brooks six sold shows a few years ago.
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Tiburon1724
This is just a step to move the Bills to Toronto like the NFL wants. One of a few possible local people with the means must step up, secure the team and keep it here like Golisano did with the Sabres. The problem is Wilson is not cooperating and is willing to let the team go to the highest bidder upon his death. Nobody local has the resources to become the highest bidder.
As a season ticket holder, the 2 games/yr in Toronto is a slap in the face, an insult. As I was leaving last week's game some Canadians were chanting "Let's go Toronto!!" It's a different country with it's own league, let's leave it be. These have been the Buffalo Bills for 47 years and if they leave, Buffalo's national relevance will completely disappear. The only reason the younger generation of people know of Buffalo now is the Bills and snow. All the progress made recently will be reversed, the city will die, as will most of our hearts and souls.
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tonyarmani
those you that want the bills out of buffalo or think moving them downtown because it isnt a financially smart move to do: GET THE F OUT OF BUFFALO!!
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Hospitable
Thank you brokeleg... suburban stadiums are very very 70's.
The nfl has a push a mere few years old to get every team a new stadium witin the next decade.
Vegas.... the Ralph is one of the oldest stadiums in the country.. and is proving to be a difficult sell even for Ralph. A newer smaller.. more manageable stadium (w/higher ticket prices).. is essential for the bills to stay in Buffalo. Due to the increased isolation of the OP stadium... there would really be one option ( continued strain on county resources with much less of an economic impact)... you could use it for college games, large events, etc... or you could do what Buffaloanians do best.. demo demo demo..if they stay, kiss the ralph goodbye
Definitely heard the Kelly/Thomas rumor about them getting a group of investors together... but Marino.. what a rumor.. if he was part of the process... I'd have no problem making the purchase date "Marino Day" a local holiday.
Sayvanderlay... 2 games in Toronto would be a nice little marketing tool for canadian companies looking to break into the U.S. market...
I don't know how Torontoanians would feel about a nfl team up there... they do have a cfl team... and believe it or not there is a huge anti-american sentiment up there... I don't think it'd be a smart investment... alla.. the Bluejays and the Rogers center with their thousands of empty seats every homegame.
Icecreamsub... you're never going to have a professional sports team in VEGas... the city of gambling... its not gonna happen.. trust me..
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Hospitable
Thank you brokeleg... suburban stadiums are very very 70's.
The nfl has a push a mere few years old to get every team a new stadium witin the next decade.
Vegas.... the Ralph is one of the oldest stadiums in the country.. and is proving to be a difficult sell even for Ralph. A newer smaller.. more manageable stadium (w/higher ticket prices).. is essential for the bills to stay in Buffalo. Due to the increased isolation of the OP stadium... there would really be one option ( continued strain on county resources with much less of an economic impact)... you could use it for college games, large events, etc... or you could do what Buffaloanians do best.. demo demo demo..if they stay, kiss the ralph goodbye
Definitely heard the Kelly/Thomas rumor about them getting a group of investors together... but Marino.. what a rumor.. if he was part of the process... I'd have no problem making the purchase date "Marino Day" a local holiday.
Sayvanderlay... 2 games in Toronto would be a nice little marketing tool for canadian companies looking to break into the U.S. market...
I don't know how Torontoanians would feel about a nfl team up there... they do have a cfl team... and believe it or not there is a huge anti-american sentiment up there... I don't think it'd be a smart investment... alla.. the Bluejays and the Rogers center with their thousands of empty seats every homegame.
Icecreamsub... you're never going to have a professional sports team in VEGas... the city of gambling... its not gonna happen.. trust me..
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bison716
THE BILLS MUST STAY! THE BILLS MUST STAY! THE BILLS MUST STAY! THE BILLS MUST STAY! THE BILLS MUST STAY! THE BILLS MUST STAY!
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brokeleg
Heres a pipedream idea for the Raplh, rip out all the seats and anything of sentimental fan value and auction them off for extra cash. Then cover the stands with solar panelling and put windmills at the top- turn that behemoth into a clean-energy facility. The Ralph is hardly state of the art, other than the jumbotron its a dinosaur. And it is anything but easily accessible. Getting to and from games is a bitch, don't pretend that OP is a central location. It has encoraged sprawl and causes a lot of pollution with all of the cars. If we had a downtown stadium you could save the $20 you spend on parking at the Ralph and the gas you burned to get there you could get yourself a metro ticket, a plate of wings, and a couple cold pints in our various eating and drinking emporiums. Cut the BS buffalo, if the Bills mean that much to us a downtown, green energy, retractable domed stadium is the only way.
Super Bowl L- Buffalo, NY anyone?
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atypical
Some day Buffalo will need a new stadium and I hope it ends up downtown.
In the meantime, in today's Sports Illustrated; Ralph Wilson Stadium ranks 15 for NFL Fan Value Experience.
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/football/nfl/10/26/fvi.bills/
We can live with the Ralph for 5-10 more years... then build a state of the Art facility downtown. Will tailgating be compromised? Just a bit but we must compromise.
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atypical
More Good News folks:
Jim Kelly and Jack Kemp Huddle to Keep Bills in Buffalo http://www.wivb.com/global/story.asp?s=7325748
(November 7, 2007) - - Buffalo Bills Hall of Fame quarterback Jim Kelly says he has a buyer lined up to purchase the team from owner Ralph Wilson. News 4's Mylous Hairston has more on the effort to keep the Bills in Buffalo.
Known for his ability to run the Bills' high powered no huddle offense to perfection, Jim Kelly is now huddling with a new team, a team with money and power that wants to keep the franchise in Western New York.
Speculation about the team's future has increased in recent weeks since the Bills announced plans to move two games for the next five years from Ralph Wilson Stadium to the Rogers Centre in Toronto.
The Bills say it expands their market and will secure the team's future here. Many fans believe it will open the door for the team to move to Toronto.
On 97 Rock Wednesday morning, Jim Kelly revealed he's talked with Ralph Wilson and people who are interested in buying the team.
Former Bills quarterback Jim Kelly said, "He knows how serious, not only Jack Kemp, but myself are, about keeping the Bills in Western New York. And I'll tell you what, I know the people, I know a couple of people that have come to me and have the money to pay it in cash. I guess the best thing I can say is that I will do everything in my power to make sure the people I align myself with and the people Jack Kemp aligns himself with makes sure that team stays here in Western New York."
Kelly didn't go into details about the people with the cash.
All of this may be good news for Bills fans who are worried about what will happen with the team when its 89-year-old owner is no longer around.
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vgs
Who says the NFL wants a team in Toronto? The league has recently expanded or relocated to Cleveland, Nashville, Jacksonville, Charlotte and Houston oh yes and Oakland (again). Toronto and LA are bigger markets than all of those and still no team. If these two major markets wanted a team they would have one by now. Aren't the Bills in top third of the league in team net worth. They bring a sense of tradition and history to the league and do not think for a second that the NFL wants them to leave Buffalo. Remember how hard the NHL worked to keep hockey in Buffalo. I don't think its any different. The league needs the Cleveland's and Buffalo's to keep it real.
The Bills have been stressing a regional appraoch to marketing for years and that is all they are doing now. The Dolphins and Giants played in London this year, does that mean they are moving there. With more Europe games to come this Canada thing just helps the NFL and Bills grow their fan base.
And it might sound shallow but I would probably move out of town if they leave. There is only so much we can take.
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RisingDamp666
I won't be happy until The Bills win The Grey Cup.
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bison716
Thanks "atypical". Good news indeed. Now back to the program.....:
THE BILLS MUST STAY! THE BILLS MUST STAY! THE BILLS MUST STAY! THE BILLS MUST STAY! THE BILLS MUST STAY! THE BILLS MUST STAY!
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WeLovePanos
Hospitable, youre wrong, Vegas is on the Verge of landing an NHL and NBA team, by 2009-2010. A privately built arean is being constructed behind Harrahs, 20,000 seats 100 luxury boxes at $1,000,000 per year to start...
http://sports.yahoo.com/top/news?slug=ap-harrahs-aeg-arena&prov=ap&type=lgns
Producer Jerry Bruckheimer, a HUGE hockey fan is the lead of the group bringing a team here...
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sancor
If a stadium is to go downtown, make it simple and cost effective. It took Montreal 30 years to pay off their debt on olympic stadium and it now stands empty. As for Toronto, it just wants its name in the stats pages of major american newspapers, they should never get an NFL francjise.
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Joshua
Update! Buffalo Bills Sunday! Here is a link on EPSN's website regarding Jim Kelly's comments on keeping the Bills in Buffalo: Report: Hall-of-Famer Kelly confident Bills won't move
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