Buffalo Rising Online

Well i think that this design fails. take away starry night and all you have is a wavey parking garage. If they were going to steal peoples money i wish they would at least attempt to bring a stronger design. Stop worrying about the hotel and what to put on the pillow. This is a good sign that something is being built But that entry way is stale and about as organized as a home depot.

for the love of god please no casino.

Horray! It is about time that we neared completion on this project! The Casino will look a hell of a lot nicer than the nasty old grain elevator complex. Now if the City will just sell the old Rich's Creamer building to the Senecas to build a nice hotel and maybe a water park or something. Give them that whole freakin' area, the NFTA and City of Buffalo have been completely impotent with ideas and options for this part of the city so I am glad that the Indians could do something productive with it.

Wouldn't it have been nice if Buffalo could have received a share of the $57 Million dollars that the Seneca Nation paid to the state last week.

And by the way which will increase over time from 15 to 25 percent . The next thing Buffalo and NF have too do is get the state to turn most, if not all of it over.

So basically you're advocating for Buffalonians to throw their money away in the casino and only get 25% of it back for development within the city?

Talk about a stupid idea. If we really want to use our own hard earned dollars to redevelop the waterfront, the Inner Harbor, etc., why not just give them directly to private sector investors and cut out the middle man?

The casino won't help Buffalo's cause at all. Anyone have anything other than pipe dreams and speculation that it will? 'Cause I've got dozens of mediocre cities with casinos that didn't help development one iota that say it won't...

All*Star - Let's do the same with the taxes! PLEASE!!! :--)

I put far more into the pot than I will ever take out, I would venture to guess that my return on this forced investment is far less than 10%.

whoever negotiated this deal didn't really think much of the local economy. if they had, they would have required the casino to be just a casino--everything they add on competes with existing, locally owned businesses.

This design sucks. The parking garage is taller than the main casino structure. The twisty glass thing isn't really impressive either, as it's stuck to a big box, shorter than the big box parking garage next to it.

They should have built it in Cheektowaga.

It would be up and operational by now and making money for the suburbs. Mayor Masiello should have kept his yap shut on this one. Just my opinion.

design is not urban at all I was hoping that if they were not going to get Fulton Street it would force them to densify a little bit. But both sides are bullied. It will really be that oasis no one ever wanted, it has a fake creek running through it.

Ohh yeah the people that negotiated this are OUR ELECTED OFFICIALS... yeah they screwed us over. Does anyone know if Niagara Falls has received any money yet? Last I heard it was all tied up between squables between what defines the "host" community.

The kids are going to love going to visit SpongeBob's house. That's going to be a huge attraction!

No agreements should be made regarding Fulton Street or anything else before we see a definite design. The Indians should be forced to "sign off" on a plan that is worked out together with the City's planning department, architects, etc.

This current drawing is just a sketch, a PR stunt to make City Hall swoon. Once they get what they want, they can build anything they like. We have no reason to trust them.

PS. The current "design" has a lot of flash, but it has no real urban amenities, and runs counter to the city's goal of making the Cobblestone District a pedestrian friendly urban environment.

I'm rooting for the Federal Lawsuit to put an end to the casino.

This plan (which there was one released to the News) does go against the city's comprehensive plan oh wait it isn't a part of buffalo anymore so we have NO SAY on what ever they do. The only point of leverage that the city had was Fulton street. They tried to play that card, the seneca's played hardball and said fine, you wont cave in then we are going to threaten you with a crappy crasino, and then what happens. Like good little politicians we caved in.

We have no spine.

Mike-

As is anyone with common sense.

Sbrof-

The city could have played hardball as well and said that "we agreed to this based on these parameters, if you are not going to build this, than have fun getting water and sewer and trash services. Have fun with the toll booth that we're going to erect in and out of the casion on city property. You want to play hardball with us, fine. We'll play ball.

The City achieved many of their stated goals in this negotiation - high % of employees from the City, and a hard commitment from the Indians to market the casino to areas outside WNY. It will be interesting ot hear if they got agreement on other key points, including no more land for the Indians and a commitment from them not to go into hotel and/or restaurant biz.

This is about achieving policy and business goals, not bravado. Whether the City realized all of their goals is to be determined as details emerge. In the meantime, let's not make it about phony bravado and how we should or could have played 'real hardball.'

BH-

I'll buy that, But I also think that was my point...that I assume if the sale of Fulton goes through that the city got what it wanted, and that if the Seneca's want to play hardball, we have a few aces up our sleeves...

Am I correct that the city of Buffalo only receives 10% of SLOT MACHINE revenues and NOTHING else? What happens if something NEW becomes popular and slot machines are eliminated? What does the city get then? NOTHING?

Just curious.

I think it works out that the state gets 1/4 of the slot take and we get 1/4 of that. At most we can expect about 6-8 million / year. But I am pretty sure those estimates are off of the take from the NF Casino, which probably will always do more business than ours since they have Niagara Falls Tourists to pull in.

Where can we get details about the agreement? Did they actually talk and compromise?

Weird. Sad. Ugly. Pitiful.

A setback on a monumental scale. I am so sorry for Buffalo, struggling as it is to regain a measure of its former greatness.

But until this entire corrupt system collapses totally, there isn't a lot of hope for rebirth.

The big deal is getting the Senecas to agree to sign a binding agreement not to purchase any more land in the city and not to build a hotel. Marketing and employment quota issues are insignificant issues.

Let me see. A block of a dead-end street, or 1,000 jobs. ($38,000.,000. payroll). Ill have to think about it.

BR - What happens if the casino becomes a thriving business in Buffalo, you never know it could happen. Then that leaves the Seneca Nation with no where else to go. They can build on non-sovereign land as well as nation land, let's not hold them back. They have created three or four strong businesses in Western New York, these are local businesses. Maybe what they are telling us is that you can operate a successful business in WNY if you don't have to pay exhorbitant taxes to New York State.

We should not expect the casino to change the entire landscape of downtown, any more than we should expect the building of the New Era headquarters or the Adam's Mark hotel to change the culture of the area. This is just another business that brings jobs, tax base and stability to downtown.

I wonder if the conversation would be different if Donald Trump was building the casino. Would it be different if the Seneca Nation was building a high rise condo? Is the issue that it is a casino, is it that it is built on sovereign land, or is it something else?

BH

Do you believe everything you are told or that you read or that you are promised? This is George Bush's America.

Your choice of the words "Dead End" is a lot more real than you might think.

Amen!!!

Big Mike - Amen

Not you Perry

Perry, If you don't like Casino's Don't go. I respect that. But please Don't try to control what I do with my Money. I work six days a week. I want to choose how I spend my money. You remind me of the politicians who Try to regulate everyone's business but their own. Do you Honestly beleve you Know what is good for the rest of us.

This is a list of cities that have casino's that pay taxes:

Gary, Indiana and other NW Indiana cities Biloxi, Mississippi Kansas City, MO Omaha, NE New Orleans, LA Atlantic City, NJ

Now, the only cases for cities that are doing well with a casino there are Kansas City and Omaha. Spare me the rhetoric about the money in Atlantic City. One block west of the strip and it looks like Buffalo's east side.

I'm driving to Chicago tomorrow and will be driving through the armpit of the Universe that is Northwest Indiana, an area that was once a middle class industrial, blue collar area. I'll see billboards for a ton of casino's, and I'll see poverty on par with Buffalo's poorer neighborhoods.

These are casino's that pay taxes on everything, including the property.

If you like this idea because you like gambling, than it is your choice to look out for number one, and to hell with the common good.

If I came to you with an investment that would net you 8,000,000 but would cost your tax base over 50,000,000 would you take it? Of course not. But Buffalo did.

This is going to be a great thing for the Seneca's and the owners of every pawn shop in Buffalo.

Because there aren't enough armed robberies in Buffalo without adding more poverty?

Keep in mind, that even if it is only the middle and upper class that go to the casino, when they lose their money, it isn't going to kick them out of their house, but it is their entertainment dollar that goes away. That means not going out to dinner for a couple of times, and saying no to that show at Shea's or the Town Ballroom.

It is only the millionaire that can go blow through five hundred bucks, and not have to make some adjustment to their budget.

How many millionaire's are there in Buffalo?

But what happens when the guy making 24K a year loses $500?

It's a week's salary.

This is a horrible idea for Buffalo, and I agree entirely with Perry Fisher. This casino almost certainly won't help Buffalo, but it certainly has the potential to put the nail in the coffin. If there wasn't one in Niagara Falls and we could reach people who travel there and never set foot in Buffalo, then maybe it starts to make some sense.

Right now it makes ZERO.

They could build an exact replica of the Guarantee Building or the most beautiful skyscraper of all time, and it wouldn't make this any better.

All of you talking about the design are not talking about the issue. Forget about architecture for one second! We get it, Buffalo has some phenomonal architecture. But those buildings aren't making us money, and it doesn't matter if Frank Geary designed the casino, it won't make money for Buffalo either.

I think it speaks volumes that the Zogby survey showed that the Deleware District of Buffalo was the only part of the city against this. Read that as the people who might be able to afford to lose a few hundred bucks, don't want it.

Does it matter if suburbanites from Clarence or Orchard Park gamble? Is it their tax dollars that are going to have to pay for the casino?

6 million dollars is a pimple on the ass of a cities budget. It looks good on paper, but what is the cities budget for a year?

This casino will be a black eye on Buffalo anyway you cut it. We can only pray that it isn't a knife in the heart.

A casino is just one entertainment component in this or any other city. I go to N'Orleans, I stop in to Harrahs. I go to Tahoe, I stop in to Harrahs. I go to Cairns, I go to whatever that boring casino was. Ditto the one in Aix en Provence. Ditto the one in Monte Carlo. I like to travel. I spend $20 in the local casino. Big deal. I spend all my money in all the other things offered in the town. So will the majority of out-of-towners.

If nothing else, it will keep locals in Buffalo rather than going to Niagara Falls or Fort Erie, and at best bring in some additional, occasional out-of-towners for gambling only, or just a look-see, and then see and do other things too on their next day--maybe it's the Walden Galleria or maybe its the Wright Complex. It doesn't matter. It's not going to make or break Buffalo.

Unlike Niagara Falls, Buffalo does have something going for it before the casino arrives (absent a successful lawsuit, but don't count on that).

Would I prefer Buffalo to be so strong economically that its political clout would never have allowed it at all? Yes, of course, but folks it's going to happen.

It can look decent. The rendering is just that so let's reserve judgment and give them the same break we're willing to give Uniland on 33 Gates Circle. At the casino site there was/is nothing but crap on Seneca property, so a retro/modernistic theme and a fake creek surrounded by landscaping is better than 'nada.

And forget the demolished silos--they are gone--move on with your life--unless you are one of the few actually doing something to preserve and protect all the ones still standing by giving them an economic/heritage/other reason to exist. (I don't hear you....)

The bright side re: Cobblestone: There are PLENTY of other parcels to build all the lofts and cafes you can take. I know we've all seen the aerial shots of the unending parking lots in the district.

Oh, and remember a city should aspire to be all things for all people. Think diversity.

Not only a Casino, but I hope they put a few tittie bars next to the new Irish Place... Yeaah. Like I say, the rest of you Don;t like it, Don't go.

DO YOU REALLY WANT TO HEAR SOME TRUTH ABOUT THE CASINO AND BARRY SNYDER? do you?

Barry Snyder sucks. Yes he does. He sucks you and me and ours for his own good, not his peoples, who are 66% against him and his greedful sins.

Just a fact, NOT an angry letter...read on: So does the casino idea literally suck Buffalo gutside and center and forever.

That's not meant derogatorily, but rather biolgical-economically-- he, Barry Snyder, literally SUCKS, adamently and self-proud-admittedly, for his own lucre, in his 100 million dollar personal Buffalo Lakeshore Indian-Mafia portfolio and growing, preying upon his "people" on their behalf. He is more evil than Mussolini, Hitler and Buffalo's Robert Moses put together.

Think of Barry Snyder as Buffalo's version of Al Pacino in Scarface. Now you've pinned him. Simple bad guy with contracts on you and me.

His press relations to Buffalo so far have been cruel and brash and selfish and not a whim of genteel reach to the poeple of Buffalo-- we are his witless pauns and he fills with glee at our commupances to deride him-- our last mayor sold out our options to deal with him...he owns sovereign land now, on our waterfront.

He sucks, he sucks, and he will keep sucking all of our integrity if we let him.

Let's gather and just Damn the Bastard. If you are against the casino it is time to stand up. Or sit down.

It's not about the design. That's a light bulb. It's about the inherent veritable socket.. And it's a just a suckit. Know that.

And stand up.

the City of Buffalo's adopted 06-07 was 1.1 BILLION dollars, the 6 million this is going to give us is too small for the problems of increased poverty that are the ONLY PROVEN spin off effect of casino's. From Las Vegas to Niagara Falls, they cause problems.

That doesn't mean i am against them, some place have done it right. Niagara Falls canada works. why? because the casino's are OWNED by the government. They get 100+ million / year. That is enough money to provide services for economic development to help counter the effects of the casinos.

We are getting 6.. That is my qualm and also from the news at 11 said nothing was nothing but good will that they might hire people from buffalo or not buy more land for tax free anything they want.

Transplant- The casinos going to give Buffalo a Black Eye you say? Have you ever sat in a bar in another town and said you were from Buffalo - Then had to put up with all the crap that followed. Buffalo already has a Black eye. or image problem.No , I don;t hesitate to say where I'm from. I don't pretentd I'm from somewhere else. But trust me the Casino is not going to give Buffalo a Black Eye. In fact itn may actually contribute to helping Buffalo's image. Maybe, someday soon, we will stop being treated as if we are from hicksville.

BZ - Is that you 'L'

Yeah Fargo...

A casino is going to help the cities image problem...

Haven't you ever watched The Simpsons?

Buffalo's current blackeye was caused by the majority of the residents here having an inferiority complex about where they live.

As I said in my post transplant, I don't hesitate to tell people where I Live... Do you?

Transpalnt - R u one of those people who says "I' currently live in Buffalo, But I'm really from Yadda yadda. "

people who are gonna gamble are probably in their cars driving to Niagarag Falls right now regardless of anyone's moral positioning on a casino here. Don't they send busses over to gather people too.

So why not just build the thing here... maybe we'll even help end our dependence on foreign oil!!!

At the very least it'll be something (ok ok something extra) to do downtown. And more importantly, considering Buffalo residents are already losing their money in the falls, this is a way to keep Buffalo money in Buffalo. (the 1/4 of the 1/4 atleast.)

Fargo - althought we may be getting off the topic, I would like to reinforce what you just said. I have lived in several major cities in this country and WHENEVER I told someone I was from Buffalo, it was time to cringe from the insults. This town has a terrible image.

In the 13 years I lived out of town, I walked away from so many conversations wondering how so many people could have such hatred for a place they have never visited. Those of you who left and came back know exactly what I mean.

Most people on this site sound as though they have never been exposed to othere areas of the country. Too many comments about architecture and what building should be landmarked to preserve our once great history that NO ONE outside of Buffalo has any knowledge of or cares about.

We are now at a crossroads with the Casino because the marketing of our city is, by far, the worst I have ever seen.

Consequently, we now have to rely on the Senecas to help us market Buffalo because we are not capable of doing it ourselves.

I have news for the supporters of this project, if we actually attract visitors that come to this Casino; they are not going to be hardworking, intelligent people that decide to drive to Buffalo for a nice weekend - they will be the trash from every other town close by that wants to try their luck in Buffalo then go out after and get drunk. NOTHING POSITIVE.

There was an interesting post on this site a few weeks ago from a friendly neighbor in Toronto who suggested advertising Buffalo in Toronto, i.e, billboards, radio, or advertising in their subway system. Create weekend packages. There are a ton of people from Toronto that drive to the outlet to shop. They are all looking for a night out, but instead they shop and go home. Find a way to keep them here for a night or two.

In addition, there needs to be more positive press in national publications, on a regular basis. Its a turnaround story that everyone would love. Cleveland was NO different...look how fast they turned things around.

In short, this town needs to spend a small portion of their budget and hire a professional marketing team, from outside the area, to assist in trasforming and softening the image of Buffalo.

The goal is to attract vistiors with money that enjoy nice things.

a casino just adds to the overall experience. it's simply something else to do.

and what's wrong with the trash coming to buffalo to try their luck? they're going to niagara falls right now, atleast let this city get 1/4 of the 1/4 they're feeding the slots!!

You think the toronto day trippers come to shop and dont stop at any casino on their way back? Downtown buffalo (specifically HSBC arena) has a huuuuuuuuuuge influx of torontonians atleast 4 times a year.

what about this adding to the overall experience for the ncaa'ers next time we host?!

Hell, what about me! i haven't been downtown in quite some time. Maybe this'll get me down there.

And who cares if i'm only going from car to casino... image is everything. if there are cars on downtown streets at night en route to the casino, at the very very least it helps ease the ghost town image.

dont be so cynical. This won't bring the city to its knees... if anything, the opening of Casino Niagara in 1996 did that.

A downtown Buffalo casino is coming in some form regardless at this point. Casinos are already all around us. Why not support the best casino it can be in the form of it being as impressive as possible. The more impressive it is the more people who will be attracted to it from outside our region thus bringing in outside money. Lets make the best of the situation.

the casino is flatly bad for Buffalo.

It makes NO sense economically.

It hurts our hope for that precious waterfront/First Ward River neighborhood.

It rapes the Theater District hopes for downtown revival.

It coffers Barry Snyder and Indian Mafia.

It plain sucks us dry and does us no good and a whole helluva lot of harm to our milk budget for a reburgeoning Buffalo.

Can you see it?

Wops Against Progress!!

Savarino, Sandoro, Montante, Paladino.

Let's look at a list of the holdings of these four guys downtown and see where the money is going to go?

When you let the small minds influence the big picture, the only thing you get is demolition and empty fields of dreams.

The true tragedy to all of this is that the only discussion of real growth and change (read: not reshuffling housing or relocating existing businesses) is coming from outside investors. There are only a handful of 'new' projects in the city, and very few of them have businesses or residents in the wings ready to fill them. It isn't like there is a shortage of retail, residential or commerical real estate sitting dormant in the city.

Here we have an opportunity for a real business, that brings new jobs to the community. A business that is moving into one of the most taboo spots in Buffalo (the renamed cobblestone district), and sits just a few blocks from the BMHA projects. Do you really believe that the cobblestone district is going to stretch to the edge of the BMHA or to the side of I-90? The Casino offers a boundary for guests, we can fill in the area between the casino and the arena (or extended to Bass Pro and the waterfront) with viable businesses, because it will be 'safe and protected' from the projects and that part of the city. The target audience of the cobblestone district is not the poor or inner-city / east side / first ward residents, it is the suburban visitors. Help them to feel safe and give them a reason to spend a few extra bucks.

We fought to have the casino in Buffalo. Our elected officials want the casino, we have the chance to vote some of them in or out of office in just a few weeks. How many of the local candidates are using the casino for leverage in their campaigns? How many of them are talking about bringing new business to the area? On the other hand, I have heard more than one politician promise to 'keep jobs' in Buffalo. They will work hard to maintain the over-paid blue collar jobs, the $80K a year Delphi assembly line worker and the $200K a year GM supervisors. We vote them in because we want to perpetuate the 'Blue Collar" image of Buffalo. They are successful because you buy what they sell, and we continually vote them back into office.

Perpetuate the party-line politics and nothing will change, just like perpetuating the BS about what we 'could or should' do holds the entire city back. Take a second to read the post about the Allentown community association, the owner's thoughts pretty much sum up the feelings that many of us have about Buffalo. We have so much potential; yet we let the nay-sayers and pipe-dreamers dictate the future of Buffalo.

Sometimes progress happens through revolution, and sometimes it happens through evolution. Buffalonians aren't comfortable with either. We are waiting for our fairy godmother to come and build huge architecturally worthy buildings, teaming with affluent tenants and stable businesses. We will point and they will be built where we want them, without disrupting the current landscape. Our fairy godmother will point and we will be able to revive all the old buildings, bringing back the once great city that stopped living 50 years ago.

I had one of those "I'm from Buffalo" conversations at a convention in Houston, TX a few years ago. After the usual round of comments and retorts about the weather and economy, I felt that I had done my duty to defend the city, citing facts about snow fall, number of sunny days, and changes that were being made. After the discussion, an older gentleman approached me and said that he was proud of what I had said about Buffalo. He informed me that he lived in WNY for 40 years, and moved away a few years ago because of the oppressive negativity and lack of change. His quote was "the typical Buffalonian would find something to bitch about in paradise, they live in their own hell because they don't understand the concept of heaven". I bought him a drink, he thanked me for defending his native city and told me that this was the first time, in a long time, that he felt pride for his hometown.

Sorry for being such a 'blog-hog" as someone put it last week.

It's amazing that the comments posted here sound as though this is a great PRIVATE business that will be paying taxes like every other private business in the area. This is NOT Donald Trump opening a casino........it's the soverign Nation of the Senecas!!!!!

Reality Check: The only revenue the city of Buffalo is going to receivem is a small percentage of SLOT MACHINE REVENUES!

PERIOD!!!!!

One can play the "thousnds of jobs" card, but at the price of putting private sector businesses that actually ALSO meet payrolls and pay taxes (proprety, sales, etc) in favor of a Seneca Casino that is under NO obligation given it "soverign nation status" is ridiculous!

Why aren't we investing in PRIVATE SECTOR businesses to provide an economic base?

Yes, construction jobs are great, but if they are the prelude to killing off our private sector economy, one must wonder how wise this decision is.

I'm not surprised at Mayor Brown's recent desicion to cosign this. After all, he just got back into bed with Lenihan. It was just a matter of time.

Same old, same OLD BUFFALO!

How sad!

Pardon my naivete on the situation, but how many private sector businesses and jobs are at risk? What businesses are you alluding to?

If the casino wasn't in the works chances are that land would just sit there empty until my 2 year old grows up to be an adult, like it has since i was a kid and have become an adult. build it already.

According to the buffalo news today, the agreement between Byron and the senecas is completely NON BINDING.

Which means even with the agreement, the senecas could ignore all of it, if they wanted to.

How naive can our city govt be?

Big Mike,

As a city resident, I sure as hell want to have some say over the ability of the Seneca's to purchase land in the city to add to their current parcel and which may become sovereign land as well. Please tell me what are the three to four strong businesses that the Senecas have created? Discount gas and tobacco shops or Internet/wholesale tobacco businesses? Excuse me if I don't jump for joy. The type of business (casino) and the loss of land make this different than just any other business. This isn't an ordinary private sector company like GM or Geico looking to build a site. It's dishonest to treat the casino, especially one to be built on sovereign land, as just another private sector investment. There is a huge difference between building a hotel and a casino as well as land to be acquired by a private developer and land to be acquired by the Senecas that will become sovereign land.

I have mixed feelings about the casino. I think it will undoubtedly have a negative impact by creating additional crime and gambling-related poverty. However, I don't think the world is ending with this project. It will give people one more reason to go downtown or stay downtown. Instead of going to NF, Ontario or Fort Erie Raceway, why not Buffalo? If it competes with the theater district, the Sabres, Chippewa, etc. so what? They don't get a free pass against competition. None of Buffalo's private sector businesses receive such protection. However, I don't want the mini-nation within the city to get any bigger. As a voter, I have a small indirect say over what happens in the city. That won't be the case on Seneca land.

BR

As an opponent of the casino in downtown, I can't escape the fact that this complex, with 1,000 jobs and tax revenue for the city, is being built in the shadow of the Perry Projects, in a neighborhood that few members of this board frequent unless they are leaving an event at the HSBC arena or driving by on the 190.

I believe that Buffalonians should demand high environmental, architectural and politcal standards from any developer or new business venture in the city. But we cannot foolishly convince ourselves that other development, more "urban core friendly", "beneficial to the city" or "less of a risk to local business" should be considered in place of the casino. Why? Because at this point, in that area of town, it simply doesn't exist.

If this casino was being built on the waterfront, or in any relatively populated area of the city, I'd have a more passionate argument against it. However, the proposed site is located in an abandoned, brownfield area, next to projects and slums. Opponents of casinos argue that the areas in immediate proximity to such venues decline. Can that really be possible in this instance? If anything, the surrounding area will almost certainly improve.

Another thing worth mentioning - the majority of local bar, restaurant and other small business owners don't have any problem with the casino...many actually invite it. Most people who would gamble away their 401K or college funds already are presented with prime opportunities just 20 minutes down the road in Niagara Falls. Do we really think that a downtown casino will root out another entire population of gamblers from the woodwork? If you're a downtown business owner, you figure, "why not have them spend that money in my neighborhood rather than the Falls", where maybe you can catch a piece of the action?

I say again, I'd prefer the WNY region to be free of any casino, but in this instance, I can't escape the argument that, at least in that neighborhood, a thousand jobs and millions of dollars are better than black top, brown fields and abandoned warehouses.

You people are out of your mind. I don't see anybody putting their money where their mouth is..seriously...rather than talk..do something...come on someone put some dough down and develop something?? you can't or won't Good or bad...the casino will bring activity to a dormant area of of a dying city...give it a chance...will you all ever learn!!

The Casino will make Crime you say ???? hello there !!! Do you read the papers? Listen to the News? Live in a vacuum. R U cognizant what is going on? Do you See what a lack of jobs can do to a community

I'm sick of hearing Buffalo be compared to Niagara Falls. Do you people even go to Downtown Buffalo NOW and know what is going on (in like the past, oh say, 2 years). ....DEVELOPMENTS! Yes, we are seeing new buildings going up, some on the drawing boards ready to start next Spring, new residential conversions from old warehouses/offices, restaurants and retailers are coming back, and other great developments. Niagara Falls has not been doing what we have been doing (prior to a casino). We are not waiting for the 'BIG SILVER BULLET" Casino to come in and make everything peachy perfect. We are already rebuilding our city for the better. On another topic, Tourists to Buffalo is increasing, ask anyone who works with the Buffalo Niagara Convention & Visitor's Bureau. Hotel room bookings have increased, the Visitor Center in the Market Arcade has increased to almost double this year compared to last year, more national attention on the positives of our city is making headlines and peeking more international interests to our city. So my point being, people are coming to Buffalo and a Casino can be another draw for luring more outsiders to our city. We are not Niagara Falls, we are not Atlantic City, Detroit or any other city with a casion. We are an individual....Buffalo.

Lots of private business are at risk with the opening of a casino, especially a casino that will not draw a lot of people from outside of the area.

If you think about it: any person only has a finite amount of disposable income, and they are able to choose how they want to spend it--be it for dinner, bowling, Sabres tickets, new car, casino, etc.

So any dollar that is spent at a casino is not a dollar that is spent at the local pizza shop or any other private business.

Granted some of the money that is spent at a casino will go back into the local economy through the casino's employees.

But what makes a casino different, is that so much of the casino's revenues will not go back into the local economy. Again, compare it to a local pizza place -- any revenues there go back out into the area to purchase advertising, ingredients, ectc. Not so with a casino -- most of the revenues will go back to the Seneca Nation, who are not nearly as likely to reinvest the money back into the community.

No matter what people think about the morality of gambling, you can't deny the obvious: any casino that depends on the paychecks of local residents for its profits is essentially a giant vacumn on the economy.

Give me sovergn land and no taxation, I will have a group of investors for you tomorrow....

First of all the cobblestone district consists of a bunch of vacant buildings(or factory use) and several huge parking lots. The casino will be on the other side of Michigan, so I don't so how it is going to "clash" from a design perspective with the cobblestone architecture when it is so far from the existing buildings.

I still feel the casino will be great to stop into before or after arena events. Combined within an inner harbor that will have development parcels ready to go by the end of next year, bass pro, a rejuvanated naval park & a great lakes museum and I believe this area will become a viable place for people to visit anytime of the year.

First when thinking about a casino in Bufalo I say..let others as well as "us" spend their money here. Anything is an improvement over what was there. Now we need a domed stadium downtown, dump the skyway, and continure waterfront development.

The ones who are STILL putting a lawsuit on this thing should give it up. It would be much more understandable if instead of blocking everybody else's plans to turn things around, they come up with their own solutions for the waterfront.

As for the waterfront, the deal with Bass Pro, reviving the Commercial Slip, and handing over the outer harbor to another company is great progress in the works. The next step will be relocating The Hyatt Regency and Convention Center down there and reopening West Genessee Street.

Oh Conservative Buffalo, its a Casino, not a whorehouse or den of Sin. Id rather give my cash at something that gives me hope of a return on investment than paying MORE TAXES! Buffalo is taxed to death and we are falling further and further everyday!!!

By the way: The term is "magic bullet", not "silver bullet". A silver bullet kills things (the werewolf) while a magic bullet (Dr.Paul Ehrlich's term) CURES .

In a lot of ways paying taxes is a lot better investment in the area than gambling. Taxes gives you schools, nice parks, and research universities that might create jobs for people.

With casinos, you are statistically guaranteed to lose. Or else they wouldn't be in business. Casinos are really just a stupid tax that hurts everybody else in the process.

People are stating that the City will receive no tax money from this project. While that is technically true, what do you call the annual payment from the slot revenue to the City? This is a tax on the slot revenues. Does anyone know what the property tax revenues on the casino would be? I doubt they would reach $6 million dollars. According to the tax records, the Main Place brings the City just over $300,000 in tax revenues. Thatis a far cry from $6 million. Does that $300,000 offset the cost of fire, garbage and police service for Main Place? And, how much different would their service be compared to the casino's?

If I understand properly, the employees who are not part of the Seneca Nation still have to pay income tax to the state and federal government. The Senecais still have to pay taxes on products they get from non-Indian vendors. More business to non-Indian vendors from the Seneca's could result in them adding more jobs to support it, which would have those employees paying income taxes as well. Calculate the income taxes, sales taxes and slot revenue and how does that figure compare to the increased costs associated with the project?

The casino will not be a cure all for the city. $6 million will not cure the budget problems of the City. But what it will do is act as one piece of the puzzle in a growing entertainment district. If Bass Pro comes, that too will add to the puzzle. When the new Inner Harbor development is complete, that too will be a piece of the puzzle. When the Savarino lofts are completed, that too will be a piece of the puzzle. Get it. They all will go hand in hand to create a large entertainment district.

Deed the entire waterfront over to the Seneca Nation, or split it between the Seneca's and the Tuscarora's. Hell, it was there's to start with we might as well give it back. At least we know that something positive will be done with it.

"So any dollar that is spent at a casino is not a dollar that is spent at the local pizza shop or any other private business."

That's such a silly thing to say. Once the casino is built, even if that's true, those people wouldn't be coming to Buffalo anyways to spend money at a local business. What difference does it really make?

All I read about lately on Buffalo Rising is about people trying to block this or block that whether it's with a new high rise apartment building, or the casino. Maybe some things are worhty of trying to be blocked and others aren't, but it seems like right now everyone in Buffalo wants things built in some way or another but everyone is working against the other person.

ok i stopped reading the comments halfway down, but...

Transplant and bz: you have said in your comments everything that i wanted to say. The casino is a bad idea.

Fargo and No Money- No Style: you are both right that we need to improve Buffalo's image and reputation among the rest of the country. However, a casino will not achieve that. If our sole purpose is to make people enjoy anything about Buffalo, than we could just tear down the entire east side and put up a giant theme park. However, we want people to think of Buffalo as a cool CITY. No other popular city that attracts people to its urban assets has a casino. When people from NYC or Philly or other major cities hear that I'm from Buffalo, the reaction is generally positive, because they have either heard or seen that Buffalo is a real city with true urban assets, and has the potential to grow and prosper.

anonymous, u even know what a WOP is? we'll find ur IP address and find you...

The fact that the best thing our city will have to offer is a casino makes me sick. It further disgusts me that this casino will take up a huge chunk of land in the Cobblestone District, which at one point people were suggesting could one day be similar to Portland's Pearl District. I'm pretty sure that the vibrant, urban Pearl District does not have a casino.

Actually, the one type of casino I would support would be a boat casino, like the ones they have in NYC. But of course, I almost forgot, that would mean putting our beautiful water to good use. We wouldn't want that.