Buffalo Rising Online

If the casino is stopped its because its ruled illegal by the government, not by the people who sued. Have a referendum, make this type of gambling legal throughout the state and allow competition.

Hamp: "We don't need a casino, there are plenty of other good things happenening in the city."

That is your opinion.. don't speak for me or others (the majority) who disagree with you! So please don't say "we", unless you are part of CBB who are so nice in forcing their opinions down our throats.

Hamp: "The Senecas are building this "at risk". If they leave a big hulking mess, they will be responsible for removing it. Or maybe it could house the new Aerospace Museum."

Sure.... that is very realistic on your part. Maybe Donald Trump will take it over and make the worlds largest building? OH WAIT, WE CAN'T DO THAT EITHER, IT WILL BE IN THE WAY OF THE BIRDS!!!!

It's not just the gambling that concerns me...it is the UNFAIR (see no taxes) advantage the Seneca hotel, restaurants, meeting centers, stores, ect. would have over all other businesses in the area. You people who wish for shops, restaurants, hotels and maybe a convention center down in the CanalSide/Downtown Waterfront area better think twice before arguing for this Casino plan. Those places will not thrive if all people have to do is walk down the street and get their goods and services far cheaper at the Casino and its related entities. What's to stop the Casino from building a convention center, hosting events there...having the attendees stay at their hotels, shop at their shops and not venture out into Buffalo. 5-7 million dollars is nothing compared to the lost revenues that WILL occur if and when that Casino opens.

I agree with nick.. just open it up to the market and let people compete and be taxed like a normal business. The only reason I don't support this casino is the crappy deal that the city gets.. sure a couple million for what 10 years.. then what. probably nothing.. development good, deal bad.

Wait a minute...the argument here is that the casino is going to hurt the downtown businesses that are so frequently visited already? actually there are none. When hockey teams come to the arena they dont even stay downtown they stay at the millenium hotel by galleria.

Everyone here who is opposing this by saying it is going to hurt the ability of businesses to survive need to realize that those businesses you are talking about arent even in existance yet. They are the potential spin off development because of the casinos presence. So if youre not even building the casino, and the development of small business around it isnt even occuring, who then is doing the real damage to buffalo?

mbh - if the Senecas want to build a convention center, let them! It will be a lot better than the one we have, and while we might not see all the revenue I doubt our current one is much of an attraction, either. The new one will look better, and not be an embarrassment like the current one. If they wanted to build a new bridge I'd let them. They actually get things DONE.

I went to Yuk Yuks up in Nia Falls, Canada. First time there in 10+ years. I was amazed at what has sprouted up around those casinos. Shops. Businesses. People.

I think that will never happen in Nia Falls, USA. If you look at the casino site it's bldg footprint is about 5 acres in the middle of a 50 acre site. Its impossible to build anything next to it.

I think casino buffalo can be different. It's physically possible to build a competing hotel or spin off developement right next to the casino. I like development, it brings jobs and new businesses. Along with people. For that reason alone, i'm for the casino.

I don't like the deal NYS made, but when has our local government made a GOOD deal? Hyatt? Bass Pro? Local IDA's? And gambling aint for me, it's a silly waste of money. Nor, would i ever tell anyone what to do with themselves.

This will get built and it will open for business. The NIGC will not rule against the indians. They rarely ever do. Skretny passed the buck...because ultimately he knows he will lose. NIGC will side with the senecas.

Kooks, what small businesses do you see opening around the casino? Again, I don't have a problem with casinos, but I want to know what development people think will occur beyond the bounds of the Seneca property. Even in a place like Atlantic City which has multiple casinos and a boardwalk and beach to attract people walk one block off the boardwalk and see the "spin-off" development which has occured. You won't find it cause it doesn't happen, its not in the interest of a casino to create ancillary development, that just takes money from their coffers.

just another example of anti development libs trying to mess it up for the rest of us......

Enough with the Casino postings every-other week! It's all the same arguments.

Is there really a need for this endless stream of casino articles? At some point the question will be settled, but that point isn't here. In the meantime, we just rehash things again and again. So now, to do my part in that rehashing:

1. Just because something is being built doesn't make it "progress" or "development."

2. The people behind the lawsuit aren't speaking for everyone. They're speaking for themselves. That's their right as citizens. Pro-casino people have the same right, but seem to prefer to complain that people disagree with them, instead.

3. The casino will rely on local customers spending their discretionary income. Unless there's a sudden increase in local discretionary income, casino spending will be drawn from other local discretionary spending -- restaurants, bars, etc. -- or from funds that people can't afford to spend. Neither is a good outcome.

4. The one time that NYS citizens got to vote on the casino issue, they voted against casino gambling.

5. The city would get something like 7% of slot money. The state would get 18%. If we incur the costs associated with a casino, why should Albany get more than twice our cut?

6. If casinos are a good development model, why do they need a government-mandated monopoly to exist?

7. If casinos are a great deal for host communities, why isn't Albany -- which is dominated by downstate interests -- putting them in NYC instead?

Seriously, are we going to have to listen to the same 100 posts about this casino development? so old news, boring!!!!!!

I like how some of you like to use examples such as Atlantic City but don't like to hear about NF, Canada or Washington State. Those don't count right?

http://www.heraldnet.com/article/20080824/BIZ/46000655 "The shops in town benefit from the resort [casino]" as do restaurants and gas stations, Reedy said.

yeah and then i'll throw this one in there (again).. what happens after the 14 year agreement expires???? do we get zip? is that it?

"Actually WNY is such a joke we should give the Senecas ALL OF WNY. Maybe then THINGS WOULD GET BUILT. I am one more DEAD development from packing up and getting out of this depressed shithole!"

Of coarse, because driving through the reservations we see all the development that happened before given a monopoly on high stakes gaming ;)

And feel free to point to Niagara Falls On. They did it right. Gov't owned and thus it supports how we did it wrong....

ereizi, from the same article: "The resort draws from two large city bases. Portland, Ore., is about 170 miles from away while 135 miles separates the resort from Seattle. Beside Washington's coastal area, the Quinault Beach Resort and Casino boasts a nearness to the southwest corner of Olympia National Park as well as the park's protected beaches.

Leslie Reedy serves on the Grays Harbor County Tourism board as well as the Ocean Shores Chamber of Commerce. She says a lot of tourists to the area come mostly to spend time on the beach. The Quinault resort and casino offers a convenient place to stay and play near the ocean. And the influx of tourists to the resort has helped the surrounding communities."

The influx of tourists to the resort has helped the surrounding communities. First of all, it is a resort that is not in a city and is not a comparable to a casino in the city of Buffalo. Secondly, the SEC report indicates that most dollars will come from locals, not tourists, which is what the Washington state article is about. Sorry, but Buffalo is not a tourist destination that offers the ability to "play near the ocean."

Great, another rehash of the same points that have been posted weekly for six months. This is worse than watching repeats of the Fresh Prince of Bel Aire, the acting and posturing is just as bad.

Build the Casino, or don't build the Casino, who really gives a shit anymore. This one building won't improve Buffalo and probably won't hurt it that much either. It is just another attempt to bring something, anything, to downtown Buffalo. We can rehash the finer points of legalizing casino gambling and opening that industry to all comers, or we can rehash the discussion on the social ills that gambling has on society. We will hear the same tired comments from Colin, Sbrof, PaulBuffalo, Blackrocklifer, Heathersmiles, and a few others. They will making the same stand that they made last week.

The topic is exhausted already. I was really happy to see progress being made on the new building, I am eager to see it completed. I don't care if it is a hotel, casino, or 10 story daycare center, it is something worthwhile being built that is open to everyone. This is probably the first publically accessible building constructed (from the ground up) since the HSBC Arena was built in the 90s. I am sure that the Birchfield Penny counts, but hopefully the point makes sense.

There is a lot happening in Buffalo, good things that could be discussed for the betterment of all in the area. Let's see something different on BRO, something that highlights the reality of Buffalo. Let's have a post that highlights each of the Charter schools and their success or failures. Maybe a post about some of the private schools like Park or Nardin. How about a post on Holy Angels (the lightning strike might be a good angle to discuss) or some of the neighborhood paraochial schools. Let's see some positive press about the local unions and what they mean to their members, let's do an expose on the Brotherhood of locomotive engineers, or maybe an article on the CSX system and their employees. Let's see something about the Tralf, or what has happened to great local bands of the past. Maybe an article or two on some local businesses that aren't on Elmwood or Allen, how about Sit and Spin records, or United Men's Fashions on Bailey? We could get controversial and talk about some of the most neglected, yet still standing, buildings in Buffalo and what it would do to shore them up. Do an expose on the various district council members or community activists. There are many things to cover and discuss, things that are not overdone like the "debate" about the Casino, Route 5, the latest nothingness at the waterfront, and the 40+ year old decision to build UB in Amherst. Let's move on, there is nothing left to see here.

Hey Casino Boosters:

The Seneca Nation just suspended construction of the permanent casino because of the state of the economy!

So their big steel beams will sit there and rust, even without the court order being enforced.

It will get built....if they did it in Alleghany....then its the economy...

Nuff said....the Bureau of Indian Gaming is very pro-indian and is going to give the Senecas the go ahead.

The big short term question is the negotiations over Cigarette and Gas Sales Tax which Albany needs desperately

Long term....when the Senecas 15 year revenue sharing agreement expires...when NYS loses the slot revenue then they will change the chater to allow competition in gambling or atleast come up with something equivalent. Will the Senecas extend the revenue sharing in exchange for maintaining their monopoly? Thats the big question that NYS will eventually hope for!

allfit- Why do you refer to opinions that differ from yours as "the same tired comments". You seem to take up quite a bit of space rehashing your own ideas. I would think a paragraph or two would be enough to make a point.

allfit - sit and spin is closing soon, which is a shame.

allfit, Those would be great editorials, unfortunately they cost money to produce and BRO has none. I'm tired of coming here and seeing the same debates. I do enjoy the public commentary. It seems the public wants a credible news outlet covering all point and neighborhoods. Bringing the positive and negative to out finger tips. Something diverse and with out fluff. The ability to comment on articles and stories seems to be a plus. BRO had a vision and unfortunately its not working.

I apologize for hurting your feelings Blackrock, I know the Inferiority Complex piece really hit home with you.

Whats not working about it?

That people disagree?

"I'm tired of coming here and seeing the same debates." Sorry this should have read "I'm tired of coming here and seeing the same subjects being debated."

Just wanted to make that clear before I got attacked.

Nick, that is not even a debate. Of course a casino will mostly draw from its region, about 75% or so. The only way they will "take your money" is if you go there.

- How about we shut down all video game stores because they are addicting to kids and most promote violence? They are taking money from our community!

- Fast food restaurants are making our kids fat. All need to be closed down! Maybe we should start "Buffalo Citizes for a Healthy Buffalo" and sue McDonalds and Burger King

The name calling on this board is very poor form.

"just like leave the casino alone if you don't want it. People need to mind their own business, stop the name calling, and quit making decisions for everyone else. "

This kind of thinking is idiotic. If I see something that I think will hurt my city, I should content myself with not using it after it's built? If someone is trying to tear down a valuable historic building, I should keep quiet but refuse to park in the surface lot that will take its place? Or to take an example from history -- if I think that destroying a neighborhood to build the 33 is a bad idea, I should keep quiet but refuse to drive on it? I'm a citizen -- these things are "my business." So is a state-mandated casino in the middle of my city.

i do agree that people should stop the name calling. Anyone who has been paying attention can see that the bulk of it has been coming from the pro-casino side.

NewBuffalo, I like your style.

Buffalo is a comfortable, easy place to live, but if you don't get depressed here, especially in the winter, something is wrong with you.

there is absolutely no energy here, terrible climate, and no foresight by the people who live here because "most" have never traveled., Buffalo is a sub-culture. A good place to "hide out" for a while or raise 4 kids. Other than that, we will not see a turnaround in our life time.

ereizi,

I'm not making a case about stopping a casino cause we should police what people do, I'm simply pointing out that you quoted an article to make your point that casinos in other places, specifically Washington State, attract outside visitors who add to the local tourist economy. You state that "Of course a casino will mostly draw from its region" so then where is the money coming to add to the tourism and local businesses if its just locals? I'm just calling your use of a reference that doesn't support your argument. RIght away you attack that I'm trying to tell people what to do when I used a completely rationale response with a quote from the same article to refute your point.

heathersmiles, I think you could be the one!!

That was the most poignant list I have read on BRO as of yet. I am so glad that some people are starting to catch on. The more people who know the "real story," the better chance we have of moving toward freedom from the politicians that hold us hostage.

You are smart and funny....It could be love.

"We have kept a close eye on the state of the economy and the impact it has continued to have on every person and every industry across the country," said Barry E. Snyder Sr., chairman of Seneca Gaming and a past president of the Seneca Nation of Indians.

"In keeping with our financial commitments to our owner, the Seneca Nation of Indians, and with our obligations to our bondholders," Snyder said, "we have decided that it is our responsibility to suspend our construction activities at this time, as we endeavor to preserve the continuing strength and vitality of our company.

This is Great - now we have nothing! Another busted project - what a joke!

So much for the "get it done" Senecas! And here the "just build it" crowd was willing to give them all of WNY yesterday!

Gaustad @ 19:10 says- "there is absolutely no energy here, terrible climate, and no foresight by the people who live here because "most" have never traveled., Buffalo is a sub-culture. A good place to "hide out" for a while or raise 4 kids. Other than that, we will not see a turnaround in our life time."

Yet you stay in Bflo? What gives?

See 501(c)3 Exemption Requirements Based off the IRS Website:

"Section 501(c)(3) organizations are restricted in how much political and legislative (lobbying) activities they may conduct. For a detailed discussion, see Political and Lobbying Activities. For more information about lobbying activities by charities, see the article Lobbying Issues; for more information about political activities of charities, see the FY-2002 CPE topic Election Year Issues."

Sally, walk beyond the Cordish development and check out the rest of the city. "Developed by the acclaimed Cordish Company of Baltimore, Maryland, and the Casino Reinvestment Development Authority." The Walk at Atlantic City recieved a generous subsidy for construction from the CRDA, a government entity charged with the duty of redeveloping the coastal areas with government funds generated from the gaming industry. This isn't a private market force driving the construction, its using substantial government aid, which is fine, but where is that happening with the Buffalo/NF casinos?

Thanks to Joel Rose and the 11 other idiots for putting more Western New Yorkers in the unemployment line.

Alright, Before everyone attacks me I want to state my side. I am 24 in college and purchased my first home at the age of 22 in the city(west side). I defend Buffalo to all my friends telling them all the great aspects this city has to offer when many of them call it dirty and boring! I'm for the almost anything that will breathe some fresh air into this city. But like many others I alone cannot suggest something that will be liked among everyone. I was for the casino. I feel If you like to gamble something downtown would be a nice attraction to go to. Also my roommate works for a cold storage plant( were they store all the food for companies, schools and grocery stores) and he told me the income from the deal that the casinos were going to provide to the business he worked for was going to boost his company by atleast 3-5%. Yes there are bad things that many have touched upon in what seems to be 30 articles on this casino. Both sides have strong cases for both sides. The problem I see is that no one has a project that will actually help Buffalo economically and in the future. I can't suggest a silver bullet but I believe technology and the medical campus can really help draw people to the city. Also, on ch 4 last night they had the guy from citizens for a better buffalo on, and he said he does not like casinos but likes the construction. The anchor asked him "If you like construction what do you suggest should be built here or in the city?" His response was " I don't know" I feel if your going to put the time in to block or defend a project in the city you should atleast has evidence or an idea for another investment project. Just my two cents. I thought this might touch upon both sides of the argument to try to help come to some kind of 50/50 agreement so that we wont have 10 more articles on this casino.:-)

From the CRDA website:

The seeds of revitalization first took root in 1978, when the New Jersey Legislature and New Jersey voters welcomed the gaming industry to Atlantic City as a means of restoring the city’s economic vitality. Despite the elaborate hotels and casinos that soon illuminated the skyline and the influx of millions of hopefuls crowding gaming tables and coaxing slot machines, investment in the city in the late 1970s and early 1980s was virtually nonexistent.

In addition to other gaming-related taxes, State law gives each casino a choice: pay 2.5% of its gaming revenue to the State, or reinvest 1.25% of its gaming revenues through the CRDA in community and economic development projects in Atlantic City and around the State.

Atlantic City Projects:

The law requires each casino to invest all of its first three years of required Atlantic City investments in housing and community development projects. In years 4 through 25, each casino is required to make half of its required Atlantic City investments in housing and community development projects. In years 26-35, each casino is required to invest all of its Atlantic City investment obligations in economic development projects.

The state has required that economic development be funding, since the casinos and hotels alone did not cause economic development and in fact had failed at reviving the city. Sally you're right that its busy, I only live an hour away, but the development did not occur on its own, and but for the redevelopment agency it may not have happened. There's little incentive for the casinos to encourage this development beyond its walls. Now I agree with you that Bflo. or NFNY could do this, but will they? Authorities are lawful bodies of the state so it would take a state action to create an aouthority of this type to guarantee reinvestment in Buffalo. I think we could agree that this would have been a wise choice for the state to better utilize the funds coming into the city (and hopefully the state but we know that won't happen) to create economic development that may not happen organically as done with the Walks in AC.