Buffalo Rising Online

I counter with ...bring 'em on. The more the better. If we can't have a cop on every block to nab thugs, vandals, litter bugs, etc., then I'll settle for eyes in the skies. If you've ever been to Singapore the place is totally safe and spotless. Like a dream. If you're not doing anything illegal, what's to fear.

While we're at it: Why can't we have cameras on most busy intersections (i.e., Elmwood/Forest, Delaware/Amherst, Hertel/Colvin, etc.) to spot red light runners? They're in use in many states. Another tool in the quality of life arsenal. Once you get nailed for fines approaching $250, you won't do it again. It acts to calm traffic and reckless behavior.

Geez; has it really gotten so bad that right minded people actually want and accept this?

Alright all in all im not sure how I feel about the cameras- at first cool, it will scare the trouble makers away, but really we are just pushing them to the more residential streets where its darker and there are no cameras.

One problem I have is who decides the placement of these cameras. Seems like politics are involved. I was driving down Cazenovia one day and I saw the blinking blue light at the corner of Caz and Abbott Road, thought to myself no, that cant be one of the new cameras, why would it be on that corner- sure enough it was. I could think of 100 other corners in this city there should have been a camera installed way before that corner say... i dont know.. seneca and babcock where there is constant loitering and drugs? Same deal with elmwood,, great that they are going in to ensure safety, however are'nt there other corners and streets that need it more?

When the cameras first went up on Chippewa I had a younger lady friend that was outside stepped a few feet off the patio of 67 west to talk to a friend walking by and was stopped by a police officer and given a ticket. I asked the officer if he thought that was a little rediculous and he told me, whether it is or not, its an open container I have to write it because the cameras are watching. So then I proceeded to ask about the homeless with open containers covered in brown paper bags about 40 feet from us and I was threatened to be arrested. So pick on the young girl who works in the bar and restaurant industry and is spending lots of money downtown (up until that point, when she said screw this- grab her friends and left) instead of cleaning up the loitering and bums who supposedly you cant do much about because they have no IDs and no homes. Point is already I see poor use of the system, hopefully they will be better utilized and the police will use them for what the cameras are really for.

Yes, but would Ben still be saying that if he were to see what America has turned into?

Very bad idea - makes suburbanites feel like they're entering enemy territory.

This isn't any different than every corporation / large building everywhere across America having security cameras on every corner and every door. At least in theory these ones are being monitored by people who would actually do something if something bad is seen on camera. The private video systems don't care about anything that isn't on their property. I'm sure everywhere in the business areas of Buffalo you go you are seen on at least one video camera at any time.

"these ones are being monitored by people who would actually do something" HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA you are talking about the Buffalo Police... did you read dpbflo's comment. The only thing this is going to do is ingrain the idea that the city is a dangerous place. It gives people one more reason to look down upon the city. I can see the comments already.. " ohh our Amherst streets don't have camera's, just proves that the city is actually the dangerous place I have been saying."

The problem I see is these are but yet another REACTIONARY measure.. they don't fight crime.. we help prosecute it. The criminals and people who would do bag things are still out there, and still going to do them just outside the range of these cameras and that means on someone's front lawn.. REAL SAFE.

The real crime problems stemm from poor education, upbrinigng and poverty... fix any one of those and you can watch the crimes disapear. This is nothing more than a huge WASTE of taxpayer money. The whole concept that "if you don't break the law, then you have nothing to worry about" is the wrong attitude to take on this or any case.

Who decides what is against the law? It is easy to change the laws without anyone knowing. It is already LEGAL to get arrested put in jail indefinitely without and hope of release or a trial.. just because someone claimed you were an "enemy combatant" or a "terrorist." Well those words will change depending on who is in power and could easily be construed and used against innocent people because once the doors close the reasons why you were put in there are inconsequential.

I could go put some anthrax and bombing plans in someone mailbox pay someone to turn them in and watch them disappear..Yea land of the free my a$$. But that is ok as long as it happens to 'other' people. But thats ok because life on the cul-de-sac is good...

These are a poor substitute for 'feet on the street' police patrols and community policing. I am guessing that these will be used more to collect evidence after a crime than to actually stop crimes in progress. After all, if someone was monitoring these cameras they might have sent a patrol to ensure that Luanne was alright and didn't need help.

Why does the Mayor feel compelled to put his name on these cameras. We are going to have to go around the city and pay a city worker to replace these stickers when the next administration takes control. I think that there are better ways to spend our tax dollars.

There is a tremendous difference between private security cameras and government controlled policing cameras.

I do not trust our government to look out for the best interest of all citizens, they are too self-serving and focused on political interest groups and lobbyists to care about the common residents. These cameras have the potential of taking away more rights and freedoms for the American people, in much the same way that the Patriot Act is more about monitoring monetary transactions than it is about stopping terrorism. Providing Appropriate Tools Required To Intercept and Obstruct Terrorism has netted us one philandering Governor and a couple of illegal immigration arrests. Such a small benefit from a tremendous abuse of power!

These cameras are just one more example of the "modest and incremental', as John Ashcroft would put it, changes in the law that expand the government's power to unlawful surveillance and intrusion on citizens basic rights. I am sure that at some point in time the government will introduce voice monitoring of conversations on the street under the guise of protecting residents from people who may be conspiring to commit crimes. Maybe they will start to monitor all internet activity in the same way that they monitor your use of the public library. After all, we may pull in a few pedophiles or anarchists, we are all willing to give up our rights to personal privacy to bring in these "evil doers".

I can't wait until one of these cameras catches a local politician doing something wrong. Maybe we should make the video accessible to the public so we can monitor the streets in much the same way that some people monitor police scanners. Maybe we could add GPS systems to all municipal vehicles so we can track where our politicians and workers are going and what they are doing. I doubt that they would allow this level of introspection into their lives, but they see nothing wrong with it in ours.

Too many crack heads and crack dealers lurking in the dark on Elmwood, espcially for the size of our city.

Elmwood and city need to be safer for people to come in to shop for the day and spend money.....

1. I'm not a constitutional scholar or anything, but I don't think that there is such a thing as privacy on a public street. The cameras are a bit creepy, but I don't think they violate anyone's privacy.

2. At some point, we're gonna have to wake up when it comes to crime. If crime keeps falling year after year, and yet our fear of it and obsession with it remains the same or even grows, then I think there's a problem.

demersus- Im sure you know someone that its a buffalo police officer, or at least know someone thats knows one. Ask them about the camera monitoring and they will laugh. The city is in over their heads and runninng a half assed operation. They are installing 100+ more cameras and do not even have a staff monitoring the ones that have been in place. I know many with the BPD and was told on the busier nights there are 2 people monitoring all of these cameras- do the math "slow nights" the monitoring room lays empty- waste of money

as urbanesque stated "These are a poor substitute for 'feet on the street' police patrols and community policing. " that about sums it up

Back in the day when my parents and grandparents could sleep tight with their doors wide open on a summer night the police were walking the beat- now your lucky if you find that on a busy friday on chippewa give the effin police their raises when due, hire more and have them on our streets. It would still cost less then these lame cameras

Heather, great point !!!

While we're at it, the mayor should put a camera on every floor of city hall and one right in his office....maybe that way the citizens of Buffalo can monitor corruption

maybe when the video is used as the crucial piece of evidence to convict a criminal in a high profile case this paranoia will subside.

as if they could even sit and watch every feed 24/7.

The city has never described any protections on how the cameras are used, or abused. These cameras have incredibly far range and quality. What would prevent someone from aiming the camera into the window of an apartment bedroom?

"the city DID describe the limits have controls that prohibit zooming in on windows"

Which are?

Searching the City Of Buffalo's own website for more information I found this little tidbit:

""Video surveillance technology has led to a tremendous number of abuses," said John A. Curr III. "There have been all kinds of problems in New York City."

There's a possibility that police might use the cameras for purposes other than catching reckless drivers, Curr said. For example, he said there's nothing that would stop them from using cameras to film people during demonstrations. The scope and purpose of surveillance cameras in public places must be spelled out, along with training and monitoring policies, Curr said."

Guess what people, we live in a different world...anyone remember people using planes as weapons?! Needless to say, I'm a left wing Democrat & if you've got nothing to hide, then an "eye in the sky" really shouldn't bother you!!! Jesus H Christ, get over it & onto more important things...

if you've got nothing to hide, then an "eye in the sky" really shouldn't bother you

I guess you are right, if you have nothing to hide then you shouldn't mind the police stopping by your house for a random inspection of your belongings just to make sure that everything is above board. You wouldn't mind the police pulling you over just to check your license or to search your car just to make sure that you don't have anything to hide. You shouldn't be bothered by the random wiretap when you are calling out of country or to certain people on their list. You shouldn't mind a review of your credit card receipts to ensure that you are paying all the appropriate taxes on out of state purchases. You shouldn't mind the random drug test just to ensure that you aren't using any illegal drugs or unprescribed medications. You probably shouldn't mind a random search of your computer files or mail, just to make sure that everything is above board. I know you won't mind being recorded as you exercise your rights to free speech and assembly. What do you have to lose if you aren't doing anything wrong, after all you have nothing to be afraid of if everything is kosher and above board.

I am not sure that there are more important issues to deal with than the loss of the freedoms that founded this country. I am not sure that all left wing Democrats believe that the rights of the government should prevail over the rights of the individual, but it sounds like you are leaning further to the left than most. Be careful what you wish for because you just might get it!

So where are the 100 new cops that the city just hired? Why aren't we seeing an increased presence on the street or faster response times to 911 calls? The only place that I have seen an increased Police presence is at 74 Franklin Street. Let's get these police out of their cars and on to the streets so that they may meet the residents and work with the community. I was hit-up for change and money at least 7 times while walking to the Allen / Main subway station from Roswell Park today. There wasn't a police car anywhere to be found and the panhandlers know it. You want a medical corridor and new residents downtown? Then work on improving the quality of life by removing these nuisances from the streets. While your at it, put someone on patrol near the University parking lot because there have been about a dozen car break-ins this year, and there is a transit cop that sits just a couple yards away from where the cars are parked. He sits there every day and does nothing. We need to hold the police more accountable, not the people.

Would I expect to be filmed at a protest. Sure. Filmed walking down the street with an icecream? Maybe. Filmed picking up my mail, or answering the door when friends visit, or flipping channels on my TV, or getting dressed for bed? No.

The "protections" you think are there is how you are being naive, not me. If a gun goes off you know it. If a permanent silent camera behind smoked glass is filming your house or not... you would never know.

Can the protections be overridden by staff? I'm positive they can. What's even more worrisome... can they be hacked? Can someone control them remotely from outsite the city police? And where is the data being stored and for how long? Who has access to the archives?

Would I trust the city govt of Buffalo to have actually thought of all these possible concerns and proactively addressed them? That's not even worth an answer...

...since in some cities there is nowhere you can go without being filmed! When we hit that point, you will definitely hear from me.

Cojo - It will probably be too late when we hit this point.

The police already have the ability to scan large groups of people to identify individuals by matching certain facial characteristics. This technology was used at the Superbowl to supposedly catch terrorists and other people of interest. What would keep the government from profiling a person and then searching and tracking them via passive video surveillance. Please don't get me wrong, I can see many positive aspects of this type of surveillance, but the unchecked power and scale that they have is what concerns me. Research the 'surveillance veil' in London as an example of what can and probably shouldn't be done. Manhattan is looking at adding a similarly linked surveillance system to monitor buildings, crowds, crosswalks, intersections, and some restaurants. The London system has not proven to deter crime or even increase the apprehension rate of criminals, except in some very high profile cases. What it has been good for is the sale of video and photo captures of celebrities and politicians to the paparazzi, even though this is expressly forbidden, just like the sale of 911 calls and crime scene photos. The risk of abuse and intrusion outweigh the benefits to me, I could see more value if they change the way that the cameras and the service was used, be I know that this isn't going to happen.

dpbflo - I specifically made a point of saying "in theory" in prefix to my statement about the cameras being monitored by people who might actually do something, because I am fully aware that it is likely no one will actually do something. And of course there are not enough people monitoring the cameras, they didn't plan this through very well.. A real solution is to actually fix the issues that cause the crime in the first place, which I'm not going to get into, because that is about as likely as someone watching the "security" cameras and doing something about the footage they observe.

Not an article about career opportunities for young people in Buffalo. How can Buffalo claim to be rising if it can't absorb its college graduates?

one at the corner of allen and main would be great

To Einstein and all the other libertarians....

The next time you, your grandmother, little sister...have a gun pointed up their nose by a thug demanding money...or worse...let me know how you feel about personal instrusion on public streets.

I would really prefer no crime at all...and smiling faces on everyone....but neither is going to happen. So while you generate hyperbole about cops coming unnannounced into a house or other tabloid fear...just know that I would welcome the cops over to my house. In fact, I'd give 'em a doughnut as "thanks" and ask them to stop by ....anytime.

If you're so worried about losing your civil rights by a camera on a public street, I suggest you also worry about my inability to go out on the street without probability of being mugged.

"Guess what people, we live in a different world..."

We live in the world we create.. We are doing nothing to solve problems but instead fuel the fear flame. Instead of hiding in out ticky tacky homes maybe if we actually meet more neighbors, got involved in the community and stood up to people half the shit wouldn't happen. Instead of killing and overthrowing countries causing all sorts of civil unrest maybe if we focused on the actual perpetrators of the crime. We have created and filled the ranks of the Anti-American movement. How is that solving anything? 911 was a tragedy, but turning us into a police state without the freedoms to protest wars, and speak out against the administration while at the same time causing dissent and more hatred of our country are NOT what we are fighting and dying for.

Also what is the point if people do get caught after the fact. They already caused fear and their victims will be that much less likely to return or stay in the city afterwards. There is no justice in someone getting caught by the police because everyone knows, especially the criminals, that the system is broken and they will be back out on the streets in a couple months. Great...

Until we solve the causes of crime, poverty, education, inequality (real or perceived) then cameras on the street do nothing more than drain the city's coffers faster than before.

In London, England steet cameras are everywhere. This democratric country has adjusted to these surveillance tools for police work. Like all devices made by humans they can either be used correctly or to harm others. How well the City of Buffalo uses these cameras is yet to be seen and proven. If these cameras help to catch more criminals in our community they will be welcomed. If these cameras end up being used to spy on peaceful demonstrations or to spy on people because of their politics then they won't last for long. That is a viable issue. However there are now a lot of cameras for a very few people to watch. They can't be watching them every moment of the day. It's impossible. However if a citizen or business is wrongfully harmed there is a trial of evidence for the police to follow on the video tape. Time will tell. The court of public opionion can and will shift on the use of these cameras depending on how well they are used within the boundaries of the law. This is an interesting experiment being done by the City of Buffalo. Let's hope that this tool brings down the chaos in the city. We have suffered much from violent crime in Buffalo. Those who kill others must be removed from circulating amongst us and from harming others. There are also cameras in the sky that most of the time we are unaware that they exist. They have excellent resolution. My point is that technology continues to expand and we as a society continue to adapt to it. The City of Buffalo cannot have police everywhere when crimes are commited but cameras are a permanent watch dog or a tool to back track when someone is harmed. The fight to preserve retail areas of Buffalo is crucial to our cities financial health and stability. Elmwood is now the Main Street of Buffalo. Let's wait and see how cameras work out.

sbrf I also agree with your comments that education and poverty need to be worked on a lot more. The Harvard professor who came to town this week said something I totally concur with. The City of Buffalo needs to get out of the Bass Pro free lunch program. At least small business owners on Elmwood are engaging in free market trade without government subsidies. Building large structures for big business is a misappropriation of our tax dollars. Yes more money should be invested in better educating and training the citizens of Buffalo for the future. It is important to beat swords into plow shares and put people in jobs instead of jail. There are some people that for our own safety that must be removed from our streets for our safety. Crime is everywhere from the city to the suburban streets to the country side. Everything that is in the City of Buffalo is outside of Buffalo. We need to build the City of Buffalo for the people who live here and place more focus on them instead of on trying to lure outsiders inward. Make Buffalo better for the people who live here. The camera is a tool but a better educated person is somebody that is more likely to want a better community for themselves and their family.

One more thought at lot of public money has been appropriately invested in Buffalo and the U.S. into medical research and development but hardly any money has been invested in green technology r & d. If Buffalo and the U.S. wants to lead it needs to use other tools such as our great higher learning institutions in conjunction with investment into green research and development. How about investment in solar installations on private homes in Buffalo and making sure all buildings and structures become more green? One camera led to many cameras. Lets see one dollar invested into greening Buffalo become millions of dollars. The more self sufficient we become the more we become stronger. We have energy opportunities all around us. We lag behind the rest of the world because of lack of vision.

In New York City planting of trees is becoming mandatory to clean the air and reduce global warming. There needs to be reforestation of the back streets of Buffalo. Home owners should not determine if a tree gets planted on city property in front of their homes. This decision for the greater common good is something that needs to be pushed forword again. The Common Council members should not plant chestnut trees on streets where residents lack driveways and they shouldn't say that the owners of homes should have the right to determine if they want a tree on city property in front of their homes. Just like Buffalo has many more vacant lots where homes once stood it also has empty places where a forest once stood. Perhaps tree plantings should be a way to honor children in Buffalo who have gone onto college or a job. Tree plantings should honor fallen police officers and firefighters. Keep advancement moving forward.

Buffalo Police are a joke! Anyone who lives here can tell them where they can go to catch criminals. We all know the delis and the street corners and the projects and the houses and the buildings were it is happening. Why won't the Police do nothing about it? Someone should send them the story about the deli and let them see how worthless they really are. People are scared here because the Police won't do anything here. They let crime go on until something major happens or one of their own get shot and then there are cops coming out of the wood works. These movie cameras won't do nothing if the Police don't care about what is happening. Someone should get the Police to visit the streets like they did when they were writing all those parking tickets a few years ago. Maybe then people won't be afraid to walk to the corner or to leave their car parked overnight and maybe then people will stop moving away.

1. Crime continues to drop pretty consistently, so the whole "we're in a war zone" argument doesn't hold, imo.

2. At the same time, the arguments against the cameras are shoddy, too. As I mentioned above, there is no such thing as privacy in public. When you step outside, you open yourself up to being photographed, looked at, talked to, etc.

3. These cameras might make it easier for the police to violate people's rights. But the same thing is true of handcuffs, or nightsticks, or any number of their tools.

Colin - You keep saying crime is decreasing in Buffalo, but if something is very high and it decreases that doesn't mean it's not still very high. The federal deficit has decreased the past few years but many would say it's still very high. Global temperatures decreased in 2007 but again many would say still very high. etc.

As of Oct 2006, Buffalo was ranked by the FBI as #340 out of the 371 biggest U.S. cities (where #1 is lowest violent crime city and #371 is highest). That put Buffalo within the 10% most dangerous cities for violent crime as of a year and a half ago. Hopefully it's decreased since then but it doesn't mean it's not very high.

http://www.caller.com/news/2006/Oct/30/rankings-name-st-louis-as-the-most-dangerous-us

Atwater - What are your thoughts on the cameras?

I'm 1/2 & 1/2 ---- I think the camera's can work...

But are they really necessary in areas like Auburn in Elmwood Village?

I was not at all surprised to see them on Niagara Street -- but was shocked when I noticed the one on the corner of my street and Elmwood (Auburn) -- I have lived here for a year now (in this neighborhood) and have never not felt safe walking around at night.

*shrugs* oh well, they're going to do what they're going to do....

On a side note... my friend that lives in Chicago - lives in Wicker park -- kind of our west side to downtown --- albeit on a larger scale.

The cameras have been in his area for 4-5 years and the years I've been going there; i've seen no marked improvement...

completelyoverplayed your comments are overplayed, Buffalo is Rising it doesnt happen with the flip of a switch we will still lose people until we are completely back and even then if people have other interests. These people work hard to cover all things positive in buffalo and promote local business maybe you would be better off reading something else, business first ?

You posting the same comment on every story will not change anything

No worries, I'm done. I'm just trying raise awareness and encourage some out of the box thinking. I have a couple of younger cousins in the area and I want them to be able to stay there, if they want to. I had another cousin who was a really good person but borderline employable (trade-school graduate but constantly underemployed) and he ended up committing suicide.

The subject of a good business climate and growing small businesses is something I care deeply about and I think if BuffaloRising is about the revitalization of Buffalo it has should try to spend some more time on small business concerns and career opportunities for young people (national and international companies) in Buffalo. BuffaloRising has a bully pulpit and they can actually do some good to spotlight those struggling start ups or those companies with a national and international market. The rest of this stuff is nice but it's like luxury before necessities or like feeding a malnurished kid nothing but fancy desserts. First things first.

But you're probably right about Business First. I'd love to see an equivalent blog to Buffalo Rising, that's truly business-oriented and economic-growth oriented but equally cutting edge. Thanks for the feedback.

I think Whole LJJ Is correct. For a border city, we are awfully s-l-o-w! It is happening at all levels of government. Look at all the civil rights we have suspended in the name of protection (AKA fear). Are the changes regarding passports really completely about protecting us? As I see it, we are building the infrastructure to keep us all in! Installing cameras to catch speeders can capyure other images. Look at the 1700 mile fence on the southern border. Food for thought!

Mariner - the cameras will do nothing to stop panhandlers.

Colin - these cameras have a huge range. I'm not just talking about it filming your street... I'm talking about if filming your yard and driveway and windows... places that ARE private.. Some of these cameras have been installed right next to people's homes, and their zoom range puts many more homes within potential abuse.

Maybe we can get some police to arrest these panhandlers or at least clear them off the streets......doesn't take much more than parking a police car in frot of Sunoco or KFC for a few hours.....or in front of Avenue pizza.

How about having police on horses walk up and down Elmwood in the summer time. OR SET UP A TRAIGE/trailer to arrest and process these people.

OR pay a security guard in front of your business/bar/restaurant to clear out the bumbs so they are not so intrusive to your customers.

anyone been to Newbury St in Boston lately. You could walk up and down that street and feel totally comfortable. Why?

completelyoverplayed - I agree with the idea that Business First would be a better home than BR for what you envision.

Or an independent blogger could try starting something, but to do it well (not just rewording company web pages) it'd be a lot of time and effort - with probably not much ad revenue resulting as a pay off.

Business First already employs journalists with contacts and expertise - so they'd just have to decide to direct some of their resources into blogging and allowing two-way discussions with comments. Now that I think of it, I'm surprised they haven't already. Another possibility is the Buffalo News which has a business blog, but it's pretty weak - as are most of their blogs so far. But maybe they'll improve with time.

The cams on balance sound like a small net positive.

It's difficult to weigh pros and cons because it's so hard to predict how much benefit the cams will provide. But I expect it's a safe bet there'll be some criminal convictions that wouldn't happen otherwise, especially after a year or two learning curve with the tool. Hard to attach a value to some extra convictions per year even if we knew how many.

I don't predict much upside for deterring crime. A criminal who's smart enough to be deterred will find a place away from cam view for the same kind of crime - maybe to a different victim but it'll still happen. An unintended side effect of the cams might be to move some crimes onto side streets, which might make them even more violent with less chance of witnesses. Many criminals will be oblivious to the cams however, so that's where the convictions will come. Muggings, street attacks, get aways from hold-ups, etc.

No doubt these cams will be misused sometimes. But if they didn't exist, that doesn't mean the person doing the misusing wouldn't be able to accomplish the same thing - and that will get only easier over the years as technology keeps marching. I just Googled outdoor wireless spy cam price, and it returned 117,000 web site results. So even today, there's many easy ways to spy on a political or personal enemy if somebody wants to.

Longer term say in 20 years, advances in processing and video software will open up more gray areas of use and more ways to misuse these. Software will be capable of scanning each day's video from across the city and automatically mining the interesting camera shots. Maybe sooner than 20 years - who knows.

But there's probably no way to stop all that. Even if cams aren't placed on the street like this, by that time every police car will have small cams pointing different directions, each cop's uniform might have an embedded cam, and so on. They'll be all around us, and potentially all video could be fed to central servers, merged, and extracted for Big Brother to surf at his pleasure. Only hope of controlling that risk is citizen vigilance in continually pushing for accountability and transparency. Yeah I know, not too likely that citizen power then will be any better than now.

But I don't think nixing the street cam idea now will prevent any of that, so my thinking is we might as well get some of the benefit by being able to at least convict a few more violent people.

Einstein - About the 100 cops being trained, I don't know if those are intended to expand the force or just replace those who have retired. My guess is the latter.

Atwater --

Thanks for the statistic. And sure, crime is too high -- any amount is too much. But it's a cost/benefit question. At some point concern over crime becomes hysteria, and has a more debilitating effect than the crime itself. I'd like to see some crime statistics that removed crimes commited between those involved in the drug trade, and those committed in domestic situations. That would give a real idea of how much danger we face from random street crime. I suspect that it would be quite low.

300 --

Do you have a link for the specs on the cameras? I agree that they could be used to violate people's rights, but again, that's true of any tool in the cops arsenal. They can use their gun to unlawfully kill someone, their cuffs to make a bogus arrest, etc. In genral, I'm a lot more woried about the privacy implications of policies (PATRIOT ACT, warrantless wiretaps, etc.) than of new hardware.

Mr. Brown I'm ready for my close up.

The panhandlers on Elmwood or on Allan streets are not going away via these cameras. It will take police walking on the pavement to do that. Get a grant from Hillary or Schumer to specifically fund this program to make our best, small, retail area in Buffalo safer. Put walking police officers on these two streets. Get some police permanently assigned to rid Elmwood and Allan of panhandlers and criminals who harm business and citizens out to shop or for a stroll. If there was a permanent assigned detail of police on these streets they would have the ability to get to know the business owners and the problem pan handlers. I'm not talking about a detail to suppress the mental patients who collect bottles or talk nonsense. These people need medical help and understanding. It's the person who is on crack or alcohol who needs to be prevented from carrying on an activity that is bringing down the City of Buffalo.

As I said the camera is a tool to gather evidence if a crime has been committed. It also is a psychological deterence against crime. Why do you think they have lights on them that blink? There are some people who will pay no attention to those cameras such as the addicted panhandler or the hardened criminal. However if they committ a crime the camera is watching.

Incidently there are cameras everywhere now and not just on poles.

Colin - I agree with this too as a separate category, along with the whole stats. Both would be good to know.

I'd like to see some crime statistics that removed crimes commited between those involved in the drug trade, and those committed in domestic situations.

People should have free and full web-based access to up-to-date public crime data that City Hall keeps. Some cites (Chicago and many others) make that kind of info much more open, full, and easier too access than does Buffalo. www.chicagocrime.org for one example.

That would give a real idea of how much danger we face from random street crime. I suspect that it would be quite low.

I agree it would would add useful context, but there's still a lot of good reasons some people would want to know about drug gang violence and to know recent data about which neighborhoods are having increases or decreases in that.

Sometimes bullets hit the innocent people due to mistaken identity, bad aim, reckless firing, etc. That UB basketball player's dad outside his west side home, the two teens leaving the Delavan St store, the young man getting off the bus on Niagara, the McKinley girl paralyzed, ... on and on. There's a lot of innocent victims of street gangs, and many others living in justified fear nearby where those things have happened.

AtwaterLouse is correct that in the next 20 years enhancements in hardware and software will open up more grey areas of use and more ways to misuse these. And for those who come to play in Vegas, that technology is already here and being tested now. An article in the Washington Post it tells how "this city, famous for being America's playground, has also become its security lab."

I also agree that the technology and ability to more effectively monitor everyone's actions is inevitable.  In my opinion what may make these intrusions into our privacy worth it would be in giving the legal system more hard evidence in prosecuting offenders, and lessen the chances of them going back out on the streets.  If you're caught on tape (or hard drive) in my thinking you increase the chances of convictions.  I would be curious to see what the effect has been of having more video cameras in patrol cars in prosecuting convictions.

In todays Buffalo News in the City section there is an article about a man being attacked at Connecticut and Prospect Avenues. This should be in full view of the D'Yoville College campus cameras. This intersection is directly in the vacinity of their new dorm. I wonder how safe D'Youville and their ubiquitous cameras have made this part of the west side? Perhaps the Buffalo Police are using this video footage?

I live in San Francisco (moved here from Buffalo).

The cameras are useless in deterring (or prosecuting) crime. We have some cameras here too; many of them don't work well enough to be of any use; and the drug dealers have learnt to move out of range. As far as I know, there hasn't been even 1 successful arrest/conviction because of the cameras.

What the cameras _are_ good at is: 1. Scaring the law-abiding folks from committing minor infractions 2. Pretending as if the politicians are "doing something" about the crime 3. Diverting attention from the real crime-fighting that needs to be done.

It is yet another step in the direction of an Orwellian society. Surely the Elmwood residents deserve better?

PS: I still proudly wear my Elmwood t-shirts picked up at Pavlov's Togs 3 years ago.

(sorry for the double post) I think the real reason why the cameras are being installed just occurred to me. It is based on a conversation I had with some business owners back in the day when the fight for the Atwater House was on. They basically wanted to tear down the House so that there could be more parking for the suburbanites. Which brings me to this camera show: they are designed to instill some (albeit false) sense of security to the rich suburbanites who are too scared to come and spend their money in Elmwood. The hope is that the presence of the cameras will make them feel safe enough to come (with their bulging wallets, of course).

Here's a cheaper option: just install empty camera housings with blinking blue LEDs. It'll have the same effect, but for far cheaper.

xbfko who knows what they installed. What looks like cameras might just be empty boxes with blinking lights.

Fredrico - Elmwood and Grant are a world apart when it comes to priority of services from the city. Everyone knows that the Elmwood "Village" is the one shining star in a cesspool of a city that we call home so we are going to pay extra attention to make sure that those privledged few feel safe while the rest of use fend for our lives. The equation works like this: More cops keep high priority areas safer while crime moves a few blocks away so we leave those areas alone until there is such an outcry from the people that the city offers to put more police on the street. The city can say that we have added jobs and stimulated the economy while the police are happy that they have more people to do less work. They add a focus area or two and take one off the list every few years to perpetuate the cycle. They know that the perception is that the city is unsafe so the bar is so low that if they show even a little improvement in a neighborhood or two then they look like heroes. In other words, there is probably no hope for your neighborhood unless someone important gets injured or killed. Your only hope for safety is to move to the EV with the rest of the ex-suburbanite wannabe urban dwellers who love the image of living in the city but can't put up with the less desirable people around them. Most of the people in the Elmwood "Village" rarely make it to the other side of Main Street for fear that their VW or Prius might break down and they will be forced to fend for themselves with the real people of the city. One incident like that and they are rent the next U-Haul to East Aurora. This is the same reason that Artspace isn't working as planned, it it too close to the rest of the city to catch on. I am sure that we will have cameras and police patrols stepped up along Utica and North Hampton and it probably won't be long until they start relocating people from there to make way for the arrogant and overeducated overflow from Elmwood. So lock yourself in tight at night and be careful!

There's positives and negatives, but people who insist the street cams will accomplish nothing are going way too far. There's no reason to think that evidence captured by these cams shouldn't be a useful tool to help achieve some arrests and convictions that otherwise wouldn't happen. And they could also be used to help exonerate people falsely charged in some cases too.

Here's a local situation over the weekend in which an arrest was made that probably would not have been made if not for a surveillance cam - not one of the street cams, but it's an example:

http://www.buffalonews.com/cityregion/buffaloerie/story/328191.html

Police say boy, 15, dropped loaded gun 04/21/08 6:33 AM

A 15-year-old Buffalo boy is facing weapons charges after police say he dropped a loaded gun on the escalator in the Metro Rail Utica Station.

Niagara Frontier Transportation Authority police arrested the boy, an eighth-grader, who cannot be named as a juvenile.

NFTA police said the boy was seen on a surveillance camera dropping the loaded Glock on the escalator at about 10:40 p.m. Saturday.

Sounds like maybe someone reported finding a gun on the Metro escalator, reported it to the NFTA cops who then checked video to get a description of the suspect, and then were able to find and arrest him.

Also think back to what happened with the mayor's son's hit-and-run of three cars. That never would've been solved/admitted if not for the video. Granted that was "just a property crime", but if it hadn't been solved at least those car owners would have had to pay a lot more in repair bills (deductible) instead of having the mayor's insurance co pay for the full repairs.

I'm not saying there no potential negatives of having the cams, but to insist there won't be any positives is ridiculous.

On buffalonews.com today -

http://www.buffalonews.com/home/story/329243.html

Buffalo launches crime cam program with 43 cameras doing surveillance By Brian Meyer Updated: 04/22/08 12:09 PM 04/22/08

... City officials cut the ceremonial ribbon today on a surveillance monitoring room in Police Headquarters, a high-tech center that allows law enforcers to scrutinize activities in dozens of neighborhoods. Thus far, 43 cameras have been installed throughout the city. By the end of the year, more than 100 surveillance devices will be documenting activities in high crime areas, business districts and spots where homeland security is a potential concern.

When the installations are finished, Police Commissioner H. McCarthy Gipson said, Buffalo's surveillance capabilities will be substantial. "We will be one of the elite camera systems in the United States of America," he told reporters today.

The cameras can zoom in up to 400 yards to read license plates or provide close-ups of individuals. During today's demonstration, one officer who was monitoring cameras used a joystick to zoom in on a street corner. The shot was so clear that small pieces of litter could be pinpointed. Mayor Byron W. Brown said the cameras have been making a difference even during the test phases. "Crime in neighborhoods around these cameras seems to be drying up," he said.

Gipson said the cameras have already helped officers make numerous arrests, including some drug-related arrests. ....

I understand the 'big brother' feelings, but isn't it time that we use modern technology to our advantage to fight crime? Many complaints have been registered here about the effectiveness of the Buffalo police, yet those same people denounce their attempts to use technology to improve their effectiveness? Criminals use modern technology to find new ways to sell drugs, rob people, seduce children, etc., but the police aren't allowed to use this same technology to fight crime? These are in PUBLIC places, not in your bedroom. Somehow, I don't believe people from the suburbs will all of a sudden feel LESS safe and welcome in the city due to cameras. If anything, the opposite is true. Most arguments against these cameras are fueled by cynicism and paranoia. But, to test that premise, let's take a poll of business owners in these districts and see how they feel. Are their businesses negatively affected? Do people feel more or less secure? Have people from the suburbs stopped coming to shop at their store? I predict nearly 100% of businesses are in support of these cameras and will see positive benefits. Now, let's take a poll of drug dealers, thieves, gangs, etc. They will most likely be 100% against the cameras. Who do you want to listen to?

What the television media is showing is that the cameras can zoom in tight for a close up of a face and a license plate. The audio can pick up conversations far away on the street too.

A suggestion for making WNY and Buffalo safer is to place cameras along our bike paths, waterfront trials, and in our parks.

A suggestion for making WNY and Buffalo safer is to place cameras along our bike paths, waterfront trials, and in our parks.