Buffalo Rising Online

its funny to see how many people in the link were convinced that there was no way in hell anybody would ever buy these

I was positive that they would not sell on the open market. I'm stunned!

Well the test was if they sold, now the test is whether they hold value.. sure both are important points but changing the bar halfway through is a little self serving. Assuming they are built with high quality materials that would allow homeowners some degree of customization \ upgrading over the years I think they will hold value. If they were built like other new housing in the city over the past 10 years, cheap and fast. then i doubt after some wear and tear people will want to reinvest into them. That is of course something only time will tell as I don't know what types of materials or methods were used in this construction.

The GIANT garages really ruin these buildings in the third and fourth pictures.

If this development was in practically any other market, the developers would be ecstatic with a slim 6% price reduction from a year ago.

This is another example of heavily taxpayer-subsidized housing development that is clearly unsustainable.

And it is occuring in the context of the fast-approaching city tax sale on Oct 20-22, when a record breaking 4,580 distressed or abandoned Bflo properties are on the auction block.

Why would the city heavily subsidize folks in a shrinking impoverished city to move where nobody lived when Bflo was more than 2X larger? And on toxic land no less!

Further illustrating its folly, 10 of 11 buyers so far are from Bflo, not buyers from afar adding to Bflo's ever-shrinking numbers. That means that 10 more Bflo houses are likely to go vacant, insuring that taxpayes will possibly face the demolition of 10 more houses.

Taxpayers build, then taxpayers demolish . . . sound policy??

R Kern

Well it seems that the tax payers have paid for the demolition of the old building and the cleanup of the site so that it is no longer toxic, after that the developer is constructing the buildings just like anywhere else in the country. The difference here is he much sell some of the units at a lower price, probably as a contingency for winning the right to build here to begin with.

If there are other tax dollars in play I would sure like to know, but 500k to have one less toxic parcel in buffalo is something I don't mind paying for.

Yes these people came from Buffalo but what would have been their other options for a $150k plus new build clustered around other new builds? Certainly nothing else in the city. Result, an eventual 10 families that would have been in Lancaster, etc instead of in the city with 10 houses still "left vacant". Though seeing these people are paying over $150k, I doubt they are leaving a 10k house that is about to go vacant.

I'm surprised, but in a pleasant way, that these homes are selling so well at that price point. Good news....

What I am wondering though, is why suburban style housing is being built in the city? Vinyl siding and front loadeing garages? Why no alley and garage in the rear? I'm probably nit picking here, but I'd guess that people who choose to live in the city, typically choose it for the lifestyle and urban environment. If they wanted suburban housing, they would live in Amherst. Then again, judging by the sales numbers, it appears I'm wrong.

Looks like I have a lot to learn!

[deleted]

Things are on the upswing for the City. There has got to be a point where the population of the City will rise - maybe another 5 years?

> lot of house for that price - good deal - wish I were black, I would move down there in a heart beat.

There's no rule that you have to be black to live on the East Side.

That being said, similar projects in impoverished, predominantly black neighborhoods in Cleveland tend to have mostly black homeowners. Those in transitional neighborhoods -- the Cleveland equivalent of a University Heights or Pine Hill -- have more white buyers; they've really helped to stabilize and reinvigorate the surrounding neighborhood.

tjhorner1> What I am wondering though, is why suburban style housing is being built in the city? Vinyl siding and front loadeing garages? Why no alley and garage in the rear? I'm probably nit picking here, but I'd guess that people who choose to live in the city, typically choose it for the lifestyle and urban environment. If they wanted suburban housing, they would live in Amherst. Then again, judging by the sales numbers, it appears I'm wrong.

Hardy board and other composite materials that are alternatives to vinyl siding aren't really popular in Buffalo, for some reason. Compared to other cities that are dominated by wood frame housing, vinyl siding, and it's predecessors, aluminum siding and Insulbrick, are much more prevalent in Buffalo. At least the porch and stairs don't incorporate ornate Italian-style decorative metal railings; they may or not be real wood, but they at least feel substantial.

No alleys? Alleys are a staple of New Urbanism, but Buffalo's not really an alley city. Blocks were originally platted without alleys. The few true alleys in the city, for example Tarkio Place in the Kensington Neighborhood, have always been quite rough. Alleys have a bad reputation in Buffalo compared to other cities where they're the norm, such as Chicago and Denver. Blocks in Buffalo also tend to be quite long compared to other cities, and alleys need to be short if they're going to function effectively as a common driveway. Snow removal can be an issue, although it's being addressed with more recent NU projects in Michigan and Illinois.

Well, we seem to be having a real negative fest this morning over some relatively good news for the city. Can so many be so pissed that their predictions for total failure for this project not materializing cause them to bash away anyway with predictions of falling values and soon to be discovered substandard building materials? Hey quick, let's find out if the buyers of these market rate homes are receiving the same secret tax deal that the buyers of new city houses at the main-LaSalle project got. How can anyone want to live in a nice new house in inner city Buffalo that isn't subsidized? They shouldn't be living in a new house with so many abandoned houses to choose from. Only in Buffalo can "the glass is half-empty" crowd morph into "the glass is cracked and dirty and the dishwasher is permanently broken" crowd. Let's all have what Dick Kern is drinking and then let's have a few more rounds of it. As it's often said, Buffalo has no worse enemy then some of its own citizens.

These houses all have Hardy Board siding, They are built with an alley with rear loading garages. Oh and they are in Buffalo not Denver.

Note: Alleys in Chicago are not plowed. Snow clearance is up to the home owner and believe me most don't bother.

PB --

The east side isn't a neighborhood at all -- it's a huge geographic area, something like 1/4 or 1/3 of the city. There are certainly neighborhoods within it that work, and others that can work with a bit of investment. But there are undoubtedly others that are simply gone. I don't trust the people in City Hall to make the distinction.

Kern you likely have company complaining about these new homes in the corporate offices of Marrano...these are buyers that likely would have ended up in Lancaster or West Seneca.

Many of the homes will have alley-loaded garages:

Site Plan

It is difficult to find data about costs in the many earlier BfloRising posts about Sycamore Village. Below is an update from David Torke, eastside activist who has been highly critical of the project.

There also was the taxpayer-funded demolition of two newbuilds on the site, built without adequate clearances by the city on contaminated land.

COPY: (from Torke)

http://fixbuffalo.blogspot.com/2007/08/sick-yet.html

update - 8/28/07 11am Conversations this morning indicate that the 25 homes scheduled for this site weigh in at $265,000 with a subsidy of $75K and homeowner incentive of $25K. The actual cost, when you internalize the 1.3 million remediation that took place, late 2006 brings the cost of each 1800 sft piece of suburbia with an attached 2 and half car garage much closer to East Amherst than what would work for the City's East side. ROI? None. Taxpayers will be subsidizing this forever.

PLEASE ...there has to be alley's...where else will the hoodlums go to do their muggings? WHAT'S next..sect 8 homeowners?

Public Hearing, Oct 14, 2PM

The cost of this project is staggering to absorb in a city facing its biggest-ever tax auction on Oct 20-22, where 4580 abandoned or derelict properties are listed for sale.

Spending this kind of money to subsidize new housing for predominantly Bflo residents in a city having perhaps 26,000 housing vacancies is heavily counter-productive.

Here is the latest update from Geoff Kelly at ARTVOICE about the important upcoming public hearing:

http://artvoice.com/issues/v7n40/news_briefs/common_council_report

Minding the business of the people

• The controversial Sycamore Village project reported offers to buy its first six houses, at prices ranging from $201,765 to $212,348. If that sounds like a lot for a new-build at the corner of Sycamore and Jefferson, bear in mind that estimates of the cost to build each house range from $400,000 to $600,000 each. That high number is due to the cost of environmental remediation of the property, not to mention tearing down and landfilling the houses that had been built there prior to the remediation.

The Buffalo Urban Renewal Agency reports that nine of the 10 houses planned for the project’s first phase are near completion, and six of the nine houses in the second phase are likewsie close to finished. The third phase comprises six more houses, all priced similarly to those six that have received offers.

Before the sales can be approved, the Common Council must hold a public hearing That hearing takes place on October 14 at 2pm in Council Chambers.