Buffalo Rising Online

All financial issues aside, I hope that this has as large an impact on smoking as it possibly could. Now, realistically, the Senecas are going to fight this for God knows how long, and it probably won't even come into action. "The issue here is not cigarettes, but the protection of the Nation’s treaty rights. We will do what it takes at the right time to protect those rights.” This is bull, it's all about money.

On a previous thread, someone mentioned that these treaties don't cover sales to non-Indians. Does anyone know if that's the case?

new york state doesnt pay for roads in canada either.

The issue here is about the government's greed and their thought of an easy way out of the state debt crisis. The amount may not cover all of it but something to help out. The fact that state and national goverment does not honor the treaties made by past leaders does not speak well of our nation and much more respect should be shown to the first people that were here and that are still here.

This is just about as stupid as Paterson's so called "Obesity Tax." It is a tax on all non-diet sodas and will generate an estimated $404 million dollars a year (milk, juice, diet soda, and bottled water would be exempt.) New York State needs to tax the Indians, soda makers, etc. because Paterson wants to increase welfare payments and expand social services. Someone has to pay and it begins with the Indians!

In a previous thread on this subject, the poster "NewBeginning" wrote:

"Before I discuss the tax let me make it clear that this tax would only apply to those who are not Native Americans. If someone who lives on the reservation were to pay some sort of tax that individual would be given a rebate. So this tax only applies to those who live OFF the reservation. In the early 1990s the US Supreme Court, yes the highest court in the land, voted UNANIMOUSLY that this tax free business being done on the reservations was illegal. Amazing that the most conservative and the most liberal justices agreed on this decision. In the treaty of whatever year it was, it said SPECIFICALLY that tax free business be done ONLY between Native Americans. Tax free transactions are prohibited under this treaty between Native Americans and "white men." Furthermore, the US Supreme Court said that those who are not Native Americans, but go to these reservations to purchase tax free goods are guilty of tax evasion. These transactions are therefore ILLEGAL"

If this is correct -- and I don't know whether it is or not -- sales to non-Indians are taxable. Does anyone have particular knowledge of the issue? In other words, something beyond "honor the treaties" or "you can't tax the Indians."

Well, the long term impact of empire zones may be bad for Buffalo and WNY but it remains to be seen how and what new form economic developed incentives for our area will be restructured.

However, taking sales to non-natives effectively eliminates the near monopoly of unfair and unregulated tax free businesses....which isnt the end ofthe world for indian small business...it just means that those businesses will be competing fairly. DOES ANYONE KNOW HOW MANY GOVERNORS AND ATTORNEY GENERALS HAVE NOT HAD THE GUTS TO COLLECT THESE TAXES ON INDIANS AND ALLOWED UNFAIR COMPETITION TO PLAGUE PEOPLE WHO ARE PATRIOTIC NYS CITIZENS BY THOSE WHO NOT ONLY DONT CONSIDER THEMSELVES NYS CITIZENS BUT US CITIZENS.

Unless Paterson does a major screw up...having the courage to tax indians alone gets him my vote.

PS and yes taxing indians is going to raise the priority of the Buffalo Casino and the other casinos.

Now, if NYS can collect sales taxes on cigarettes to non-natives then shouldnt they be able to collect sales taxes on gasoline, hotel rooms, buffets, entertainment tickets, parking, ... and basically all sales transactions to non-natives even on reservation such as casinos. I expect as the budget crisis worsens ... the pressure to collect sales taxes on more than just cigarettes will gain momentum....especially since Buffalo and NYS only have an agreement to share slot revenue for 15 years....after 15 years the loss of that slot revenue is going to either extended or replaced with sales taxes.

Colin - This may only apply to non-Native Americans who are buying gas and tobacco on the reservation; however the non-natives make up the majority of the customer base for these businesses. Maybe if the State woke the f... up and realized that people will drive 30 minutes out of their way to avoid paying the exorbitant taxes that the State of New York has imposed on people, then we wouldn't be in this mess. Maybe the State of New York could right size the government and eliminate some of the unregulated Authorities, the outlandish usage fees, and other expenses that the people of New York are expected to shoulder. Maybe the State should look at the State spending instead of breaking treaties and continuing the centuries of abuse, racism, and discrimination against the Native Americans.

Take their land, force them to move to reservations at the point of a gun, kill tens of thousands of them in mass genocide,remove the children to be adopted by 'white families', build thruways and canals through their assigned reservations without compensation, remove every viable means of business and commerce, and then we wonder why they are pissed off. The Native Americans are the most impoverished group of people in America. Spend some time on a reservation with the Native Americans, learn about how they really live, and then make your comments about how the Supreme Court decided blah, blah, blah.

I hope they shut off the reservations to all outsiders. Close off the New York Thruway and the roads to Niagara Falls. Shut down route 81 and 17, and wait for the State of New York to bully the Native Americans once again by bringing in the military and state police.

New York state should be ashamed of themselves.

whynot --

The treaty either does or doesn't say that sales to whites are taxable. From the evidence presented, it's seeming more and more like they are. All along, the native position has been "honor our treaties." Or was it actually "honor the parts of treaties that benefit us, but not those that hurt us?"

And I think you're right -- unless the state backs off, this will be settled with force.

what about the bird migration tax for hi rises and bridges?

Can't the Seneca's just hold back Casino payments to the State and municipalities?

I have to admit.... In every debate, Casino (I don't gamble) and Cigarettes (I don't smoke) - I pulling for the Seneca's.

So unless someone can point out where in these treaties it says that the Senecas can sell tax-free to non-Indians, there is really no argument to be had here.

Yes, lets reduce our tax load to reservation levels so we can live on an indian reservation too. ;)

If this is true and does get extended to other types of buisnesses, there may actually be an even playing field too allow other complimentary buisnesses to grow up around the casinos.