Buffalo Rising Online

This is a shame. Guess I'll just keep going and spending my money in Niagara Falls. Plus NF needs the jobs & money more then Buffalo does.

Would you like to know why this is a GOOD thing? Especially for a city with no other major attraction. Like I said in the other thread - the Falls has, well, THE FALLS!

http://www.noslots.com/Aborn_Crime_Gambling_study.pdf

...still chokin on my martini

exactly potato! There are already 5 casinos in the area, anyone from Buffalo who wants to go is already going, they do bus trips from the Kmart parking lot for crying out loud.

Since they are already gambling, why not let them do it in our city and let Buffalo get a cut of the action.

If you don't want to gamble, dont go. simple enough.

Excellent news!

The tragedy here is that several buildings of real character and history were lost - now perhaps to no end. By claiming to be sovereign territory, the Senecas claimed that environmental and preservation laws didn't apply to them, so they bought buildings and swung the wrecking ball with what they thought was impunity - and even scattered pollution on their neighbors downwind (remember that?). They tore down the HO Oats complex, which had been previously owned by a developer intending to convert it to loft housing - which would have been real development. When the Buffalo News asked Barry Snyder if he would at least meet with the preservationists, he said, "no." When asked why, he said, "because I don't have to."

That kind of arrogance took the Senecas a long way in Salamanca and Niagara Falls, but in Buffalo they ran into a perfect storm of civic heroism. Progressive groups - fiercely protective of their city - joined forces to form CBB. Savvy attorneys got involved. Local foundations courageously footed the bill. The Buffalo News and ArtVoice dissected the project, and provided western New York for the first time with investigative exposes of the internal (and mob-like) workings of the Seneca Nation's development operations. Even this funny-looking kid from Rochester got involved, first by joining in the protest against the demolition of the HO Oats complex, and later by joining one of the progressive groups that was part of the CBB campaign.

Seeing Buffalo's progressive activists in operation is a wonder to behold. They don't win every time, but always fight the good fight, taking on issues like the boulevard, commercial slip, Bass Pro, the expansion of the Peace Bridge Plaza, and historic preservation. I deeply admire and love the fine folks who sacrifice and risk to fight these high-stakes (pun intended) battles, and the fine city and community they fight so hard for.

Congratulations CBB!

This is ridiculous! Why aren’t these decisions made early in the process? And what has this CBB (Citizens for a better Buffalo) done to make anything better here in Buffalo? They’re just keeping this area down by postponing this so late in the project. Some jerk on the news said that poor people will be gambling so much that they won’t be able to buy notebooks for their kids schooling. I’ve got news for them, people who want to gamble are gambling already, it’s called the Lottery. There are about a hundred different scratch off games at every corner store threw out WNY. Isn’t that gambling?

1. The timeline of "the process" was set by the Senecas. They chose to start building despite an active lawsuit. Oops -- their fault.

2. Citizens for a Better Buffalo has done something to make things better -- they've stopped the casino. That's why they were formed.

3. Lotteries are gambling. If I had my way, they'd be gone. But their existence doesn't mean that every other form of gambling is ok.

Good news for Buffalo, casinos bring many more negatives to a community than benefits. Working in Niagara Falls for 10 years I saw not only the lack of any spinoff developement but also the closing of existing business. Most people control their gambling but I knew many who lost their paycheck, spouse, and even their home. In the end we all pay for the profit of a few. Buffalo can't afford to ship our dollars out, we need to spend them here and support the very business establishments that a casino would threaten.

I dont like ART, so I'm starting a group to shut down the ART musuem. I dont like animals so I'm starting a group to shut down the ZOO. Neither of these have helped with Economic Devolpment and I know they dont bring in droves of tourists. They are only visited by locals. They take away from the local artists and animals. I can also tell you they dont create 1000 jobs or give ANY money back to the city and county much the opposite. Ohhh this would really piss off you liberals!! P.S. This decision will be overturned without a doubt. It effects people in other citys other then just Buffalo. Once they hear of it the voice of reason will prevail. People in other citys get things done!

Does anyone know whether this legal decision impacts the other 2 casinos already in operation? It seems it would make gambling on those site illegal as well...

So, a group of people have decided upon themselves to make Buffalo better? What god given right do they have to decide what others may want or what is or is not best for Buffalo? did they take a pole? get elected?... or now that no hotel is going up on Elmwood and the Gates circle condo tower WILL happen, they are moving on to yet another project to keep them occupied while the migratory patterns of birds are being decided for the new peace bridge?...And Collin, other than no casino and no scratch tickets, is there anything else you would like to see gone simply becouse you don't agree with it?

Buffalo... the place where good things go to die.

This is a joke!

$333 million development in Buffalo goes down the drain because a hand full of people don't want it.

I hope the Senecas decide to put in gas pumps and smoke shops on the site.

What a shame.

potato --

"I dont like ART, so I'm starting a group to shut down the ART musuem. I dont like animals so I'm starting a group to shut down the ZOO."

Except that you're not. Brilliant analogy, though.

martin --

1. These people are citizens and have certain rights before the law. If they had no standing to file suit, their suit would have been dismissed long ago. They have no obligation to consult with you (or anyone else) before they act.

2. Everyone else has exactly the same rights. If this issue is so important to you, nothing was stopping you from forming your own group or filing your own suit. It's a bit ridiculous to blame people for exercising their rights.

3. Yeah, there are plenty of things that I would change or get rid of if I had my way. I won't apologize for that -- why should I? I have my opinions, and I advocate for them. Sometimes things go my way, and more often they don't.

There are obviously things that you would "like to see gone simply because you don't agree with" them, as well. Lawsuits to stop casinos would seem to be near the top of your list.

The casino isn't a good thing. And it "went down the drain" because it violated the law.

The problem is that people who hire attorneys to force their issue have one thing that the rest of dont. MONEY to hire attorney's. This lawsuit has cost them over $1MM.

It "went down the drain" because a small group of pin heads decided to sue.

Unbelievable! The beat goes on.

Whoever said it - Thats a great idea. Let them open a gas station and smoke shop. I hate driving all the way out to the res. T

onestarmartin: "So, a group of people have decided upon themselves to make Buffalo better?"

Actually the entire state of NY voted to keep gambling illegal. So are implying that you are against democracy???

wow overdramatic much 300miles?

So having an entertainment venue with 200 suite hotel that will bring people into the city for weekends and during the week is a bad thing? Seneca Niagara is opening another hotel because capacity is always full, that is another 100 or so employees. No one makes any sense on here, we want people to live in the city and move back into the city, but have waited 50 wiht nothing to show, . Someone wants to create 1100 good paying jobs with health benefits, these people will need a place to live and eat and be entertained. It is far enough from the heart of the city, theatre and clubs, its is like adding another feature to the city, another draw, another reason to maybe head down to the city from the suburbs.... It will happen I have no doubt about that, just wait and see...

Taking bets that this will be overturned...who wants a piece of the action?

This is only 1 battle of what will be a long war. Its not over. It really seems that the majority is for the Casino. We should make our voices heard somehow. F.Y.I. - The tenmporary casino has drawn over 400,000 people to downtown since it opened in July 2007, how could any body argue with that!!!!!

Sorry, I was busy lookin for the rightess born again tent gathering. So, this group has inside info on what impact the casino would of had on this over-employed city? Yes Collin, I am and will always be pro casino, more for a better skyline when I'm on my boat more than anything else. I don't gamble, do not buy lottery tickets, but would like to see a massive private development happen in this city without my tax dollars as they are too busy supporting the East side. Yes, I would of gone to the casino, probably taken out of town guests also as well, it is only 9 acres in a city of massive brownfields, homes being pulled down by the mayor etc. Why's this "group" think people would not visit the FLR property's, go to the Buffalo Chop house and then throw some coins down a slot machine? [yes, some losers would just do the casino night after night, I do admit to that]. The shear arrogance of this little group astounds me, like on tonights news when their lawyer said "now the future poor patrons can buy school supplies for their children"...damn, where'd that come from? [love a good sparing match btw]

Three predicitions:

1) The "temporary casino" stays open as this goes through appeals, for years. And construction on the new place continues.

2) Byron Brown, Chris Collins, or someone, successfully pushes a bill through the state legislature to legalize casino gambling just this once on this one piece of property. The legal hurdles are knocked down.

3) Colin gets disappointed again when things don't go his way in the long run.

kooks - not overdramatic. When people try to paint this as a small group of people dictating to everyone else that we can't have casino's... when the reality is that NYS referendums have given all residents a vote, and they voted No. The reality is that a small group of politicians and Indians have made the decisions without any input from the voters of NY.

300miles...can't be the entire state. As ya'll are claiming, it's locals visiting the casino, not the out of towners. maybe times have changed or the people...[I can see some Spaulding Lake "Poodle" voting against gambling, but heading to Vegas as so many people do...lol]

Anyway - I'm not even anti-casino. But I'm against the way our dumbass State pushed this agreement thru illegally, and Buffalo is getting very little in return. Hopefully, however this all plays out, Buffalo will end up with a much better deal.

onestarmartin- Don;t you know where your tax dollars really go? The big money goes to support sprawl, at the expense of the very people you denigrate.

unfortunate for sure. especially for the 12+ friends I have that were/are employed by the temporary casino. these are seniors who needed some additional pin money to keep them going.

what has lippes done, along with his gang of monkeys known as the cbb, to preserve or save important buildings? nothing, not a frigging thing. now, they have added to under- and unemployment. thanks, you rich bastards!

martin --

"Yes Collin, I am and will always be pro casino, more for a better skyline when I'm on my boat more than anything else."

Well, it's good to see that you've thought so deeply about the question.

"The shear arrogance of this little group astounds me"

I don't get why it's arrogant for citizens to take an active interest in their city, and to try and stop it from making what they see as a terrible mistake.

Thank God. Go spend your money at a business that plays by the rules... You know the ones that have to deal with those pesky taxes, insurance, building codes, ADA, Family Leave and all the rest of the crap the Senecas can ignore.

To those looking at our city from afar, this decision just solidifies the thinking that this is not a place to invest. Whether your a foreigner with some vision that gets caught up in union entanglement, a designer with a dream for a bridge that can't coexist with a certain bird, or a tribe that wants to invest real money, there's just an inability in this community to see a project through to completion.

With a national economy in a tailspin, and jobs at a premium, this would seem like a self serving suit by a few that can afford to see the status quo through the few final years they have left.

Prodigal --

"3) Colin gets disappointed again when things don't go his way in the long run."

Wouldn't be the first time, won't be the last time.

Badash --

"what has lippes done, along with his gang of monkeys known as the cbb, to preserve or save important buildings? nothing, not a frigging thing."

They're not a preservationist group -- why would they have saved important buildings? Your complaint makes as much sense as criticizing Jason Pominville for failing to score any touchdowns last season.

Investors have to obey the law. Doesn't seem like too much to ask for.

The South has grown ten fold because there isnt the annoying red tape that there is here. Large companies dont invest here because they dont want to deal with the bullshit, this is just another reason to back up all of the movement out of here. Its because these yip yaps are miserable old ............ that only want it there way..... 1100 jobs, world class hotel and entertainment venue, plus gambling, that sounds bad to who?

Its not like we are Detroit who thought the answer was to live and die with the casinos, its just one casino to add to the flavor

Colin, the arrogense is in the statement of saving the poor people of Buffalo, I also feel a 1000 jobs are pretty darned ipmportant in this city which happens to be one of the poorest in the country.

benfranklin- Do you think maybe people are just tired of being burned and have become skeptical of the false promises that mega developements promise? Small business is what makes a community strong and creates real wealth for the citizens.

You need big business to bring in people to support small business, unless you want small business owners to live in poverty as do most of the small business owners in the area... Most cant stay open on our busiest streets, ie elmwood, delaware because there arent enough people here to spend money, So I believe in small business, but they cant be sustained by other small business owners only ..

blackrocklifer, too much of our small business is locally focused. Business A opens, just to take customers from business B. Business A lowers prices, business B lowers prices, profit decreases, both businesses close. Six months later business C opens, and the cycle continues (I've been A, B and C... and it's excruciating)

I'm all for small business, but we need more entreprenuerial efforts that create new markets, new demand, that can draw dollars from outside the community.

I'd prefer 200 small businesses employing 5 people each over a casino employing 1000 people, but I didn't see that option on the ballot.

ben- casinos have a record of displacing small business, taking dollars out of the community.I watched this occur in Niagara Falls, working for 10 years in the area directly adjacent.

The convoluted breaking of the U.S, Constitution and imposing a foreign entity for gambling purposes from day one has been the best that the brain dead opportunists could come up with for Buffalo.

Massive thefts from Catholic Churches by degenerate gamblers are like gambling over the robe of Jesus Christ on Golgatha. There has never been any reparation for the thousands that was meant for the poor and the sick.

Collins to Masiello are pawns and stooges of the casino industry like the government of Chicago was under Al Capone.

The pathetic lament of losers who want to impose a foreign government on Buffalo for nickels and dimes on the dollar are like the Tories who went along with the British during tjhe American Revolution. The sillyness that tells people from Buffalo that if they get harmed in the USA in downtown Buffalo in a casino that they have lost their constitution rights to due process are a sham.

I'm sick of reading chicken hawk blogging and corrupt go alongers who are the night of the living dead on Buffalo.

At least a judge could see the utter rediculousness of this nonsense that from day one subverted our constitution.

I take our constitution any day over the collaborators of the greatest wrong ever perpetrated on the people of Buffalo in the history of this city.

Shut this abominatoin down today.

Bring in the New York State Police, or the National Guard or the U.S. Army and shut down this occupation of downtown Buffalo. It is against the law as of today.

If people of the State of New York and Buffalo want gambling so bad in downtown Buffalo than change the New York State Constitution otherwise give it a rest. Buffalo is not a Seneca Reservation. Casino gambling is illegal in N.Y. State. The courts have spoken. Obey the law and due process of our country.

Perhaps it takes a judge to realize you can don't always have to settle for the lowest common denominator when making planning decisions for your city. Keep the fight up. We don't have to be the city of clowns.

Niagara Falls was dead long before the casino blackrock, dont kid yourself.....

WE ARE ALL IN THIS MESS becaiuse the do gooders/special interests prevented a referendum to allow govt sponsored or private industry that is taxed like any other business enter into casino gambling! The catholic church did not want to lose their bingo revenue..which took a big hit anyway, only to be even futher diminished by the anti smoking laws.The state did not want to lose their honeypot of revenue from the lottery that is regularly pilferred for other pet projects. WE ALL ARE TO BLAME..we allowed our elected officials to tell us what is right for us and prevented us from using our voice (referendum)in choosing what was right for NYS . Until the voters wake up and put people in office that are sensitive to our needs instead OF THE OLD SHELF EXPIRED CRONIES WHO SUCK OFF THE PUBLIC TEAT, WE WILL NEVER PROGRESS!! NYS has surely deserved its title for the worst state in the nation...and it's citizens have to be the most naive and exploited in the union!!

scandy- Niagara Falls is not "dead" just down. And the area around the casino was poor but had many small business's and few vacant buildings pre casino.

If New York Sate wants gambling than do it like Ontario,Canada and keep the profits in our country and not in some fabrication in our city.

Gambling can no longer be legitimized as a way to attract people from far away to our city. This was the premise for the three legged economic monstrosity from day one. Now with the proliferation and spread of gambling to and fro it has become like the inner city convience store that sells bad products to the community and takes adavantage of the poorest, least educated, and the addicted gamblers.

Please consider how currently the corrupt gambling industry is pushing Columbus, Ohio for casino gambling and a very large corporate employer has threated to leave that city.

Today Buffalo was blessed as it will be when Bush is gone from office. Laws and the constitution of this country were broken fast and furious for selfish interests..GO TO HELL ABRAMOFF!

Put people in office who worry more about the people of the United States and Buffalo before we worry about the Senecas. The no do gooders are those who have forgotten and abadoned their country and their constitution for gambling.

Recently, 3rd street has seen new life and there has been some developers buying property around Niagara Falls, o it has taken time, but there seems to be a bit of trickle effect....

well i'm so glad that they have made their minds up about gambling, i guess that means everything else will have a negative impact. How does that not sound like a lack of innovation?

Knowing that gambling is bad is not the same as seeing opportunity, even if the premise is bad. The history of the movie theather is something this city could learn from. We are still a drive in city and i am tired of these bad projects having abusive boyfriends. Not everything can possibly be wrong with this investment. Im thinking of the casino as a place to ditch my car(kind of like nj) while i mess around on the rail. is it possible that this casino could actully bring more conveniences? Most of what makes this city great is already in the suburbsI it might have been a gamble that the suburbanites would have taken.

Off the Re'z'ervation?

Lippes is a profile in couage for standing up to this abomination.

The people who disrespect him are anti American. They care more about gambling than they do for the constitution that thousands fought and died for.

Gambling was an impoverishment scam for Buffalo.

Go to Las Vagas and tell them they need a native American reservation in their city. God bless America.

If anybody gets hurt in the casino running illegally in Buffalo hire the best lawyer in Buffalo and exercise your rights to sue a business in Buffalo that harmed you.

Take down that dam Seneca flag flying over Buffalo. We have our country back from corrupt politicians and the collaborators for casino gambling appeasement.

Rez, you sound ridiculous

impressingagent- "Most of what is great about this city is already in the suburbs' HUH? I don't think so

lol thanks for reading my crap. i was not really happy with it so i threw that in there. i guess i have been struggling with how to suggest that the casino might draw a lot of interest from the suburbs and that it would be really great for the city. some how they have to connect the casino to the city. i am not giving up on the project because i believe that is one aspect that has been shrouded in gambling pro or con.

The following is most disturbing to me: "The City of Buffalo is not a party in the federal lawsuit. According to initial legal analysis, the judicial review process will continue and the city remains committed to receiving 100% of the estimated $5-$7 million a year in revenue as the host municipality to the casino." How much additional cost to the City for social services because of the Casino? Is it Mr. Magoo or Erkiel.........or Steve Casey. Regardless of one's view of the casino, this quote by a Mayor is endemic of what is wrong with the City. Quality of life emanates from performance not epistles.

hahaha exactly paul. lol :) imagine if we could fool people into thinking it was a mall? off ramp parking and then build some kind of metro station with a destination map and information center. maybe i just miss being lost in nyc. Though i do feel like this casino has room to take on extra responsibility.

I hope all you stuck-in-the-past, don't care about the future hippies are happy. You begged and pleaded to preserve the most disgusting, decreped and decayed part of an already behind-the-eight-ball city, and although your prescious rat-infested grain silos are gone, so (tentatively) is a 333 F'ING MILLION DEVELOPMENT PROJECT!!!!! GET WITH THE PROGRAM. GAMBLING IS EVERYWHERE IN WNY. HAMBURG, NIAGARA FALLS, OTB's EVERYWHERE!!!!! WHO THE F CARES IF IT'S DOWNTOWN!!!! BUFFALO NEEDS TOURISM, BUSINESS CONVENTION AND ANYTHING IT CAN GET IT'S PAWS ON!!!!

This city and it's political BS can go F itself. I've lived here for all of my 27 years on earth and can quite honestly say I am cannot wait to get out and enjoy life somewhere that isn't stuck under the strong-arm of pussy-foot losers that can't pull their respective heads out of their asses.

crobs- you wise old soul, don't let the door hit you on the way out.

I mean, I've tried to enjoy it here, and certainly it has it's pros, but let's be serious, blackrocklifer; this region is beyond ridiculous and things will probably never change, in terms of political nonsense.

It's not the point of casino or no casino. The point is, there was a $333 million project going on in a part of downtown that no reasonable developer should or probably ever would develop. My point was, there are ALREADY casinos here, so who seriously cares if the city has one that has potential to further stimulate the economy. I can tell you with 100% certainty that when business leaders make their way to WNY for any type of meeting or convention, they go to Niagara Falls to spend their money. Why not have these people spend their money in, and enjoy downtown?!!! Is this really that difficult of a concept?

crobs- things are changing, people are finally willing to stand up and challenge the bad decisions made by the politicians and powerbrokers.

hamp 'this is great news'....because you didn't like the fact someone said something critical about a grain silo. Unfortunately, we seem to be left with a lot of weak individuals like you who pick the least opportune time to make a stand. The venom expressed above from bitter individuals who don't want to see anything succede, because they 'don't compete by the same rules'..or they 'don't like the flag' or some other blather that I'd be embarassed to hear from my five year old. Suck it up people, build it, live with it. Make your statement in a proactive way, get out of the way of people trying to get something done. You're killing the city you say you want to protect.

Right on, benfranklin.

Ok, so even in your example, if your group of allies don't want anything to do with what's going on in that part of the city - DON'T GO THERE!! Obviously not EVERY group of people is interested in gambling, HAMP. Quite frankly, I have no interest in gambling. But pleanty of others that come here do. My point still maintains it's case. It's all about OPTIONS, people!! Honestly, get with the program. Life is not always fair, Hamp. Was it fair in the first place that we drove the Indians out of this area? I mean, if you want to get technical here...

Once again, Hamp, you continue to make everything a battle with your one-track thought process. I for one am happy for the Erie Canal, but once again, it all boils down to OPTIONS. If you care about the earth so much, why did you sit here and pick your ass while the Senecas escovated all that land and launched six tons of steel into the prescious downtown soil??

Well the NYS Compact only allowed revenue sharing for 15 years. -at risk were loss of the control of our city due to sovereighty -loss of revenue after 15 years since Buffalo refused to take the casino revenue off budget -our regions seniors, poor and children having access tocasinos -gambling addictions and bankruptcy

Maybe the smart thing to do would be to renegotiate a new compact for permanent revenue sharing or simply change the nys constitution.

Thing is the nation has to many casino's as it is....and indian sovereignty isnt the way to do it...because there can be no such thing as a nation within a nation.

anyway, I doubt that this spells the end of the casino. NYS refuses to collect the cigarette tax from the indians, they refuse to enforce the law when the senecas block the thruway and they refuse to collect the tax on gasoline as well as taxes on non-indian patrons of indian owned businesses. Does anyone think that NYS is going to have any more backbone with a Buffalo CAsino than they do with the other indian issues their not enforcing.

I say let them run the casino...and in 15 years when the revenue sharing expires then enforce the judges ruling and give them a choice...either share the revenue permanently or close the casino and all your businesses in buffalo and get out.

Well said, sonyactivision.

Hamp, you just don't get it. You are obviously far too ignorant to even listen to reason. My WHOLE point stems from the fact that a $333 Million construction project, ALREADY UNDERWAY, is going to be halted. If you cared about the city, you'd understand that more options and opportunity within the state's second-largest city also bodes well. So, no, Skretny's decision does not bode well. Construction was already underway. What if you were planting a tree in your backyard or opening up a little floorspace inside to add that coveted pool table - within the realm of YOUR PROPERTY, and some group of neighborhood jerkoffs stepped in and said, "Well, you know what, Hamp, we've decided that even though you already paid the neighborhood dues for planting trees and clearing space inside for that pool table, well..umm..you can't do it and we're going to sue you over it, even though you already paid and countless neighbors can't wait to come over and shoot a few games of pool or pick an apple off your tree."

Get out there everyone. Run up your credit card and gamble to save the City of Buffalo. Ha!

Now this area will be able to attract corporations that want to locate in urban areas without casino gambling..

Listen, if this were Tampa, FL, or San Diego, CA, I would say, oh well, sell the location as some sort of pre-fab construction project. Unfortunately, the grim reality is, folks, this is Buffalo, NY. There are a lot of intellegent comments on here, even the ones I don't completely agree with, but let's be serious, each and every one of you knows this land will sit and rot with those spikes sticking out of the ground for the next 20 years if this decision is not overturn. Blown opportunity- that's all I'm saying. Peace on earth, friends.

And on that, I would actually agree with you, Hamp. It's just frustrating the way things work around here.

THE STATE ALSO HAS A REPUTATION FOR NOT ENFORCING THE LAWS WHEN IT COMES TO THE INDIANS....BUSINESS DEALINGS....

Maybe the smart thing to do would be to renegotiate a new compact for permanent revenue sharing or simply change the nys constitution.

Thing is the nation has to many casino's as it is....and indian sovereignty isnt the way to do it...because there can be no such thing as a nation within a nation.

anyway, I doubt that this spells the end of the casino. NYS refuses to collect the cigarette tax from the indians, they refuse to enforce the law when the senecas block the thruway and they refuse to collect the tax on gasoline as well as taxes on non-indian patrons of indian owned businesses. Does anyone think that NYS is going to have any more backbone with a Buffalo CAsino than they do with the other indian issues their not enforcing.

I say let them run the casino...and in 15 years when the revenue sharing expires then enforce the judges ruling and give them a choice...either share the revenue permanently or close the casino and all your businesses in buffalo and get out.

Let me just say this....I was against the Casino because I thought it would hurt our sports teams and culturals and convention center and restaurants etc etc etc.

However I came to embrace the idea because I hoped that the Senecas and the Buffalo Casino might provide incentives for bringing great lakes cruise ships to Buffalo or extending the light rail to the airport and niagara falls, as well as, taking the casino revenue off budget and creating an infrastructure fund for things like: -new cobblestone, brick or paved streets -new curbs and sidewalks and trees -new lighting -new centers for excellence and small busienss incubator campuses -expansion of brownfield cleanup and IDA funds -preservation investment funds for endangered buildings and urban infill

But here is the problem....neither the mayor or the county executive or the unions wanted to take that money off budget....they wanted to use it to get rid of the control board so they could spend spend spend on unions, patronage and pork.

Now that we know 100% the county and city arent going to use the casino for any kind of buffalo investment....its fine if it goes....if it was goingto serve the people...it would have been one thing but now we know....it would have served the indians and the politicians not us.

Then you people wonder why Buffalo has NOTHING. Your city makes me SICK. I have been a BUffalo supporter for many years because of being a Bills fan - as i have never lived there. I follow all the news and I hope and pray for new development to turn that city around so my Bills will not leave. Well so much for that - that city cannot do anything right. Absolutely pathetic!

You know something - I can tell you countless people who drive from Pennsylvania to go to Seneca Niagara Casino who would love to spend their money in Buffalo at the casino and other places while there - but I guess that isn't gonna happen now is it. Buffalo is merely a city to drive through to get to somewhere that actually has something.

PATHETIC JOKE OF A CITY. All you advocates for nothing new can sit and watch your precious silos rot for the next 100 years.

"The Wendt Foundation should have their foundation status yanked for funding this folly of a suit and somebody should try and catch Lippes during the day a put a stake through his vile little heart."

Yes, murder is always the answer.

If you are a business owner it is YOUR responsibility to find a legal way to make money for yourself or your investors. It is not the job of Buffalo residents to make money for you. It is not even our job to make it easier for you to make yourself wealthy. If there is money to be made in Buffalo the burden is on the capitalist to find a way. If you want to own a casino in Buffalo, organize a potent political force and change laws.

When are these redneck "Citezens for a Better Buffalo" going to do something to actually Better Buffalo? Like help fix up neighborhoods that look like a war-zone? try to lure big companys, retailers here? clean up Main Street?help raise money for poor people? instead of stopping 1,000 good paying jobs with a destination in Downtown and now we have a mess that if the appeal doesn't go through will stay there for years if not EVER because of these Bible Beatin old school religious freaks who would rather play BINGO than go into a Casino and feel they need to JUDGE others and feel they know what is right for everyone else but themselfs.

Don't fu-k with Lippes - he is part of the old guard and gets what he wants.

Having said that, although I was opposed to the Casino in the beginning, a 333 million dollar venue in Buffalo's Ghetto could only help, not hurt. There is more than Gambling here.

I could be wrong, but I was looking at this project like the Falls View; look what that has done for NF Canada.

This was not to be some half ass Casino project like the one in NF, NY. This was the Grand Daddy. It would have been nice to see a new shiny hotel downtown in a developing waterfront.

I still feel that something will halt Bass Pro at this point as well.

People, its not about the Casino, its just so typical of Buffalo politicians to stall progress. Say what you want, but it drives away our youth, our future, and we get nothing in exchange.

Maby in 50 years, like our waterfront, we'll finally get a casino downtown.

Yeah, Casinos are the silver bullet, just look at all the developement in Niagara Falls NY, that city is a boom town, Oh and dont forget Detroit, they have 3 casinos

flyguy- people dont lose their paycheck, spouse or home because of bingo

To the temple of doom worshipers the real estate market in Buffalo is going to start to improve and now corporations that hire and pay higher pay will be more inclined to locate to Buffalo. Major corporations don't want to be located in cities that are amusement parks for adults. Buffalo is a university city.

Gambling is not the way to build weath and families in our city.

Gambling puts the weath of WNY in the pockets of the few who live elsewhere.

Save your money. Buy a home or start a business. Patronize the American restaurants and bars that pay taxes.

Attend cultural and sports activities with your friends and family.

Casino gambling is harmful to the Buffalo.

We have a government that was established under laws. It is just and fitting for any one citizen to have the right to dissent in our country. It is correct and American to protest and file law suits.Those who do not understand our consitution or our laws are perplexed by issues of gambling and torture.

If you want casino gambling than make it legal in New York State and do not impose a foregn government over us.

The Iraq War has shown me that there are large numbers of people in Buffalo and the U.S. who are easily controled and manipulated by spoon fed information. A mob rush is not the way to develope Buffalo. It isn't being a follower that shows leadership. To stand up for just and right principles established under the U.S. Constitution is being loyal and true to the stars and stripes. There are many blogger followers of the latest spoon fed pap and the casino in Buffalo is wormwood for our people and our citizens.

You will never smash those who resist in Buffalo. We shall overcome.

I refuse to be subjugated by casino gambling or the Seneca Nation. Nuts!

(A fictional Hmmmm…) Buffy?… Yes, Muffy. Come and look at this, I was just perusing our local print media and have come across the most peculiar story. Really, what does it say? Well, it says here that some local group of indigenous peoples intends to construct a gaming, entertainment, and hospitality venue in the city. Why on Earth would they want to do that? It must be corruption, greed, and perversion. Indeed, you know something Muffy…I think this temptation might be too much for the impoverished masses to endure. Yes, not to mention the hardships that would undoubtedly be brought to bear upon our “honest” business associates. Too true. We need to take action to protect our interests. Yes, but this will end up being a very public battle, we need to present ourselves as a group of citizens intent on bettering the city. Yes… I think you’ve got something there….

I feel the CBB is hurting the city rather then helping it. A new casino by the water front gives more incentive for people to go down there or build new attractions. Look at Pittsburgh, They built up their waterfront not just with a nice fancy dock near the river but added a mall, movie theatre, restaurants and overall attractions to draw people in. The excuse that people are going to spend all there money and its going to hurt the area more is completely false. People travel to Canada now to gamble are they spending all the money the city has and bringing the city down as a whole? No. It's the people like the CBB who make these road blocks for the advancement of the city. If people want to gamble they will drive some where else to do so. Why doesn't the city create its own Casino? If this blue shed raked in 12 million dollars in 6 months what would a full scale casino bring into the city? If New York state and buffalo were smart they would build their own in the city. New York state is missing the boat on this. How much lower would a state or even city tax be if we had a state owned casino? It could pay for the state medicaid entirely or at the least lower our taxes. Maybe we wouldn't be one of the highest taxed states anymore.My parents told me once how every other state started adding a state lottery and New York had the same fight as Buffalo with the casino. You have the vast majority that want this and the small group that will fight for just the purpose of feeling they are doing someone good. What happened? New York state realized how much money they would bring in from the lottery and changed the state constitution to allow it. WHY can't this be done again?

I feel the CBB is hurting the city rather then helping it. A new casino by the water front gives more incentive for people to go down there or build new attractions. Look at Pittsburgh, They built up their waterfront not just with a nice fancy dock near the river but added a mall, movie theatre, restaurants and overall attractions to draw people in. The excuse that people are going to spend all there money and its going to hurt the area more is completely false. People travel to Canada now to gamble are they spending all the money the city has and bringing the city down as a whole? No. It's the people like the CBB who make these road blocks for the advancement of the city. If people want to gamble they will drive some where else to do so. Why doesn't the city create its own Casino? If this blue shed raked in 12 million dollars in 6 months what would a full scale casino bring into the city? If New York state and buffalo were smart they would build their own in the city. New York state is missing the boat on this. How much lower would a state or even city tax be if we had a state owned casino? It could pay for the state medicaid entirely or at the least lower our taxes. Maybe we wouldn't be one of the highest taxed states anymore.My parents told me once how every other state started adding a state lottery and New York had the same fight as Buffalo with the casino. You have the vast majority that want this and the small group that will fight for just the purpose of feeling they are doing someone good. What happened? New York state realized how much money they would bring in from the lottery and changed the state constitution to allow it. WHY can't this be done again?

I feel the CBB is hurting the city rather then helping it. A new casino by the water front gives more incentive for people to go down there or build new attractions. Look at Pittsburgh, They built up their waterfront not just with a nice fancy dock near the river but added a mall, movie theatre, restaurants and overall attractions to draw people in. The excuse that people are going to spend all there money and its going to hurt the area more is completely false. People travel to Canada now to gamble are they spending all the money the city has and bringing the city down as a whole? No. It's the people like the CBB who make these road blocks for the advancement of the city. If people want to gamble they will drive some where else to do so. Why doesn't the city create its own Casino? If this blue shed raked in 12 million dollars in 6 months what would a full scale casino bring into the city? If New York state and buffalo were smart they would build their own in the city. New York state is missing the boat on this. How much lower would a state or even city tax be if we had a state owned casino? It could pay for the state medicaid entirely or at the least lower our taxes. Maybe we wouldn't be one of the highest taxed states anymore.My parents told me once how every other state started adding a state lottery and New York had the same fight as Buffalo with the casino. You have the vast majority that want this and the small group that will fight for just the purpose of feeling they are doing someone good. What happened? New York state realized how much money they would bring in from the lottery and changed the state constitution to allow it. WHY can't this be done again?

I feel the CBB is hurting the city rather then helping it. A new casino by the water front gives more incentive for people to go down there or build new attractions. Look at Pittsburgh, They built up their waterfront not just with a nice fancy dock near the river but added a mall, movie theatre, restaurants and overall attractions to draw people in. The excuse that people are going to spend all there money and its going to hurt the area more is completely false. People travel to Canada now to gamble are they spending all the money the city has and bringing the city down as a whole? No. It's the people like the CBB who make these road blocks for the advancement of the city. If people want to gamble they will drive some where else to do so. Why doesn't the city create its own Casino? If this blue shed raked in 12 million dollars in 6 months what would a full scale casino bring into the city? If New York state and buffalo were smart they would build their own in the city. New York state is missing the boat on this. How much lower would a state or even city tax be if we had a state owned casino? It could pay for the state medicaid entirely or at the least lower our taxes. Maybe we wouldn't be one of the highest taxed states anymore.My parents told me once how every other state started adding a state lottery and New York had the same fight as Buffalo with the casino. You have the vast majority that want this and the small group that will fight for just the purpose of feeling they are doing someone good. What happened? New York state realized how much money they would bring in from the lottery and changed the state constitution to allow it. WHY can't this be done again?

Sorry guys about the multiple postings . BR froze on me when I was posting and I hit reload.

(More fictional Hmmm…) Tad? Yes, Winchester. I’ve just gotten communication from Buffy and Muffy; they need all our help in thwarting an enormous private business development. They have worked a very righteous angle into it, and need to kick it up a notch. Well Winchester, we need to get the word out, why don’t we set up a web site with supporting quotes from peripherally prominent local citizens. Yes, we will present every conceivable ill; we’ll make it seem so evident that no person of public stature could possibly present statements that are directly contradictory to our own. Ah yes, fiendishly simple my good man, and yet so effective. Exactly, and in the meanwhile we will assemble financial support (philanthropic of course) and legal representation… someone eager to take on a big case trying to make a name for themselves. Yes, and as we know, no federal papers are so locked down that we can’t find some loophole to accomplish our mission. Very true Tad, why… it might even boil down to a simple case of wording that we can swing into our favor, and rule the day.

Buffalo's got a spirit talking proud talking proud

Listen up and you'll hear it

Talking proud talking proud talking proud.

The people behind the lawsuit are not racists or rednecks. The Network of Religious Communities, for instance, is one of the few truly multiracial organizations in town. It includes black Baptists and white Catholics, Jews and Muslims, Buddhists and Hindus and Native Americans. Slandering them because you disagree with their stance on a casino is offensive and stupid.

Hey all,

No matter which side you're on, I thought you might like to see this note from the anti-casino group. It's the best and most succinct breakdown of the legal issues that I've seen yet. ---------- There were two points at issue in this case, and we needed to win on either one of them, which is what happened. The first point was whether or not the Buffalo Creek Parcel is Indian Country, i.e. under Seneca sovereignty. Judge Skretny decided that it is, a decision with which we may wish to take issue at some point.

However, the second, and more important point, was whether, sovereignty not withstanding, the land was gambling-eligible under the rules of the 1988 Federal Indian Gaming Regulatory Act (IGRA). IGRA stipulates that land acquired after 1988 is not gambling-eligible unless one of several exceptions apply. One such exception occurs when the land is taken into trust in settlement of a land claim. Our position was that the land was not taken into trust at all; it had restricted fee status. More importantly, there had been no land claim at all. The Salamanca Settlement Act settled the terms of a controversial lease, but there had never been any question regarding the ownership of the land. On this point, Judge Skretny agreed with us.

You can read the full decision at http://nocasinoerie.org/legal/Cacgec-v-Hogen/DecisionAndOrder20080708.pdf

The decision means that as of now, gambling on the Buffalo Creek Parcel is illegal under Federal law. There are two scenarios under which that could change. One would be if the Government successfully appeals this decision. I'm fairly sure that the Government will appeal, but I believe we will prevail in any such appeal.

The other scenario would utilize another exception to the 1988 rule under IGRA, which requires the Secretary of the Interior to determine that the proposed casino would be helpful to the Indian nation proposing it, and that it would not be harmful to the host community. That latter requirement provides a mechanism for local and state officials to be consulted, although it is unclear exactly which officials would be consulted. It also requires an environmental review. It is a long, onerous process, and I am hoping that the Senecas may not wish to gamble their huge construction costs while they pursue it. We'll see.

I'm glad I'm not part of the Citizens for a Better Buffalo group right, they seem to be the most hated people in town at this moment. Good luck guys, you DID steal 1,000 jobs and a downtown Attraction from everyone here.

I was just wondering for personal non judgmental reasons unless the response is wildly out there, But why is it that the CBB does not want the casino built? On a side note, being from Rochester area originally, does any one remember the "Fast Ferry" that went from Toronto to Rochester? The reason it failed was because there were no attractions to draw people to Rochester. During its beginning and short lived life, Rochester was trying to build a casino downtown as well to draw people to the area. Once again the casino Idea was shot down because a small minority of people felt that it would steal the money of the low to middle income citizens. Just an idea to keep in mind as to how this could turn out for Buffalo. The best example of Rochester.

About a casino in My Fair City, there was indeed an effort a decade or so ago, when casinos were being promoted in upstate cities as the next urban revitalization craze du jour (think "MONORAIL!!"). A deep-pocketed and politically connected developer bought a large centrally-located chunk of downtown and pulled every lever (!) trying to get in on whatever settlements and legislation might allow a tribal casino to take over our center city. Our then mayor, thank goodness, stood solidly against it, consistently - and wisely - maintaining that giving over a portion of our city to a sovereign nation (and their well-funded friends) would be to abdicate any possible local control over the project. Much to his credit, he wisely and steadfastly resisted the siren song of "free dollars" that was being sung ever-so-sweetly to the community. Thankfully, we were spared Buffalo's casino agony.

And that all-promising developer--? After being blocked, he simply stopped paying taxes on his holdings, which remain marginally productive at best, and contribute little to our center-city revitalization. So we found out just how "civic minded" he was...

Heres a list of New York state casino news from 1988 to now. http://www.rochesterdowntown.com/news/rddc_casino/ROCHESTER/ROCH11.pdf Shows at the time of the information 14% of Turning stones customers were from Rochester driving 2 hours to a casino. Rachacha can you blame the developer for trying to make money? I'm not trying to be rude but Rochester is in the same boat as Buffalo. Rochester decided not to have a casino and the fast ferry died just like the downtown there. What does Rochester have to show for itself? a soon to be new bridge they have been building for 7 years and lofts by the O so wonderful Genesee river. When opportunity comes to a city that offers jobs and good pay with benefits TAKE IT.

Vivian- Las Vegas? suicide capital of the US, and to the average resident a depressing collection of trailers and drab manufactured homes. Also high crime, divorce, drug use, etc.

Jolopy, you are so right that My Fair City (formerly Your Fair City) is absolutely in the same leaky upstate economic boat as Buffalo. But I'm not for hopping aboard any shiny speedboat that roars up with a smiling skipper claiming to be a rescuer (Omigod, just had a flashback to Bashar and his powerboat!). And that was my point about the erstwhile Casino developer here: he was selling his idea as a public benefit - can't pass it up! - but when things went south we found out just how 'publicly minded' he was. I've seen similar situations so often with big ticket projects billed as economic development, like the Fast Ferry project which you rightly mention - it died due to a business plan by the promoters incredibly disconnected from reality, unkept (and unkeepable) promises, etc. When the promoters quickly burned through their startup funding, they shut down the service with no warning, dumped it in the City's lap, and ran. The upshot? Our tax dollars (still not sure exactly how many) will be paying, for decades, for a giant boat that long ago steamed away to the other side of the world.

I was fortunate to have had a political job not long out of college which gave me a front row seat to several fiascoes which were foisted on my community in the name of economic development, hearing every time the voices saying "we can't look a gift horse in the mouth" and seeing all too often the community left holding the bag to clean up the mess. So I tend to be wary of the Bashar Issas of the world, and folks like Barry Snyder and his crew set off alarm bells bigger and louder than the ones in Steel's post today about St. Louis' Church.

WHAT A SHOCKER??? How many other projects will get shot down?? It wouldn't be a savor to the city, but it would help, as not much of anything is going on. How can be "illegal', when they have it in NF and it has helped there and would help here. I'm not a gambler at all, but if you don't like the casino, then DON'T GO. Why would any potential business want to move in this city??? Can't follow through with any projects and BSC Tower and Bass Pro are good examples, The Bills will move once Ralph Wilson passes away and that will be maybe the biggest black eye to the city. Why is it that politicians will find ANY EXCUSE to hamper the growth of Buffalo. We weren't much different than Cleveland and Baltimore and even though they have troubles as well, they have prospered and have a beautiful front and we will sit stagnant...AGAIN

If your for or against the CBB "citizens for a better buffalo" and what they have done for the casino let them know. They are the ones that can either continue to stop the casino or let it go now. So let them know how you feel. Heres their email address: Ed@BetterBuffalo.com . My opinion is: they have been around for 2 years and all they have done to make buffalo better is sue to stop the casino. I can already see my property values rising and my tax dollars decreasing. Deep breathe now..hoping hoping.....damn my house is still worth the same, my property value hasn't come up and the crack head is still wondering around outside.