Buffalo Rising Online

very nice

Underground parking. Two thumbs up!

I love it.

Big improvement from whats there.... underground parking.... slim at the top thicker at the bottom so those weirdos can't complain about their "air flow"..internationally known landscaper... more Buffalo residents... I will however miss that chicken shack... too funny

Its still unbelievable to me that bufallo/wny actually has a market for something like this.

How many high end apt/condos have come onto the market over the past couple of years, and we are still planning for 100's more? Shocked.

But i love it......the fact that uniland and others believe so strongly in this market to invest the millions that they are....really tells you something about our market. what a big change from not to many years ago.

go buffalo.

After seeing this its very fun to go back and look at the Pano's design. Its like an A student and a D student.

judge elfvin and other "prominent" buffalonians who live in the neighboring park lane don't like this project; so, who cares if the rest of us do?

Wow beautiful! I think this will contrast the new and the old buildings in the Buffalo area nicely. How can't you love this project? Please no lawsuits!!!!!

23 floors of limestone and glass goodness. Thank You Uniland!

This project must be stopped. The building is much to out of place in terms of the neighborhood. This building would work great in Toronto, but Buffalo is not Toronto. Not in my backyard. I will chain myself to the chicken shack and let the bulldozer run me over before this building is built. To me this is the new Basspro and Panos I've previously been engaged in stopping.

I made fun of the casino building so here is my penance: I love this tower!

All I can say is "wow"! Well thought out and truly beautiful looking.

Maybe "Buffalo Rising" should start an online petition to take to the city to prove that a majority of the city residents want to see such development and put the useless "old guard" who have done nothing for this city in 30 years in their place. Maybe 5-10 thousand names in favor will help. What has this Carol Collard or Judge Elfvin done to make progress in this city anyway? Maybe instead of spending time stopping development, they should try to do something useful with their lives like volunteer work at the childrens hospital.

If I was approached about a tower like this on the corner of my street [North Pearl] to replace Bills Deli or any of the slovenly bars or apartment houses, historic area or not.... I would be truly giddy

If the Locker Room (the old bar on W. Delevan and Delaware) was still open, if I had the cash and a job in the city..... I would be sooo there.

Anyone know what is going to happen to Millard Fillmore Gates?

Great viewpoint! Buffalo Snooze says there is wide opposition, however I do not understand how neighbors can object to this project. All of the surrounding uses are high density residential, the design is amazing. Look up the street at those tacky blue colored "condos" that resemble something on South Beach. It will be a real shame if lawsuits hold this project up. What grounds are any lawsuits even being formed on anyways? I really hate the Buffalo Snooze perspective of this project, great article queenseyes!!

I too can't stop thinking about the comparisons between this and Pano's. Yea, it's a multi-million dollar project vs a greasy spoon's addition, yet scale is irrelevant when it comes to conscientious planning. For those that claim this looks out of place, you've got to be kidding. There's a monolithic mountain across the street & what about the Floridian blue condos down the street.

As Board Member Emeritus of 800 West Ferry Condo, I think it's cool. It even blocks the Park Lane's view of the east side.

On a side note - isn't Judge John Elfvin the one who cost federal taxpayers more than $450,000 by ripping his stenographer's (Edna Conlan Paczynski's) blouse or something? I thought he was dead.

This project gets an A+. The designers have taken every step to keep the neighbors happy, but they're going to complain anyway because they don't want to lose their view. Unfortunately, this is one area where Buffalo needs to learn to be a "grown up city." People in Manhattan lose their views all the time when a new high rise tower is put in next door. It's not as though Uniland is building a behemoth here that is squeezing every last inch out of the parcel... there is plenty of room for air flow and sight lines around this this building. All the parking will be underground too. I mean, could you get any smarter? I really hope the NIMBYs lose this one. There should be broad citizen support for this project, one of the few home runs to be proposed in the "big project" category. Compare this to the "Waterfront Village" condo tower proposal. This is modern, urban-residential appropriate, doesn't need a sea of parking, and raises the profile of one of our city gems, an Olmstead Circle (again a feature where we can compete with Manhattan).

Also, I love this because it is going to extend the city skyline further north.

How can the local residents sign a petition complaining about the view??? Even if all you can see is this building out your window it looks better than 90% of Buffalo. It would be really cool if they built more buildings like this.

How many people who are not already in East Amherst, Getzville or Clarence with enough money to live in one of these places are going to move back into Buffalo? These condos/apartments are way over priced for this area. I love the fact that there are developers willing to invest in this great city, but high end condos? If there were resonably priced condos in the area, maybe that could make a better or greater impact? The look is something I am sure (p)reservationists will object to anyway.

Pretty sweet! Buffalo needs something that looks new and is not brown all the way through.

Anyone who is opposed to this project is a flat-out idiot. And there is no legal right to a view. And what wonderful view are the opponents going to be losing anyway?

With respect to the prices, it is solely up to the developer to set them. And if they are too high he will be forced to reduce them. But no matter what the ultimate prices are, they will be much higher than any other complex. And this is GREAT for Buffalo, because it will prove that people with ample means are willing to invest in this area. Imagine this happening 15 years ago?

I'm surpirsed nobody has suggested setting aside 10% of the units for Section 8 housing.

bbvdm - Im sure Uniland has doen their market research. They wouldn't be spending the money to build these condos if there were no demand. In order for Buffalo to grow economically we will need outsiders with money (who can afford these condos) to come here to do business.

al-alo - Untwist your panties. We all disagree with you because you are wrong. That is all.

I love the design.

Martin - If you can get that petition going I will definitely get my name on it.

So the neighbors would like a more contextual building?.. okay, how about a 16,000 square foot floor plate to 10 stories with a foot print to the property line to match their building. I think they would change their mind when they see the view- a wall and no light.

this is a tower in a park, very le corbusier and very contextual. great project.

This is great!

To those complaining/commenting on too many "High-End" condos, please stop and think about it. If there was no market for them, they wouldn't be building them. There may be a market for lower cost units in the city, but If a developer has the choice, they're going to try and get the most bang for their buck. Especially in a midtown area like Gates.

No one means to offend. We all think we are right and enjoy and good argument.

Excellent design. Too bad we are going into another "here we go again" scenario with all these stupid lawsuits in this area. When I first saw this article in the Buffalo news, that was the first thing that popper into my mind. Anyways if it does actually get past all the legal BS it will be excellent for the city. Hopefully the city will stop listening to the vast minority of city residents who keep comnplaining about every new building that wants to go up

Daniel Sack - How much of an impact does narrowing the street a bit actually have on your life? Do you agree or disagree that the construction and success of this tower will increase the value of the surrounding property including your own? Do you agree or disagree that projects like this need to happen to bring Buffalo up to par economically with other American cities? Why do you think you have right to "stop" Uniland or anyone else from building a clean, beautiful, well designed building on property that belongs to them and not you?? I could see your complaint if they were building a sewer treatment plant or something but come on man these renderings are incredible and this building can ONLY help. You point of view is selfish and it is people like you who bicker over trivial things like curb cutting that prevent anything good from happening in Buffalo.

As an ex-pat living in the south this is the type of develpment that is helping cities to grow. Good luck, I hope it goes through and not tied up in lawsuits like the hotel and the tower near main place mall.

The only way the city will ever grow again is if there is new housing construction in the city. This is the right project in the right area, so far I just don't get the complaints. The architects and designers did a good job of pre-emptively dealing with all the NIMBYs arguments. It hurts so good that the NIMBYs really have no argument now.

Well said SLEEPL8 and DanielSack get a life man. No offense man but come on! It's people like you who constantly bring down this great city. It's a real shame!

Parking lot's 50 cars are not welcome traffic? How much traffic do you think 50 cars could possibly generate? This is crazy stuff. And I would take those 50 cars, given how much property values are going to SKYROCKET in the area. Why will they skyrocket? Because when people see that buyers are willng to pay $400,000 and up for a condo in the area, confidence in the area increases, demand rises, and prices go up!

Lancaster already has two large apartment buildings on the Delaware end of the street. Lancaster is a long street, stuffed full of houses...so how are 50 more cars going to disrupt Lancaster? As for the little park...if you walk another 50 yards around the corner, you have a few miles of historic Olmsted Parks to enjoy. If someone is using "parking" as their battle cry, it is so weak. Just out yourself as a NIMBY! This is a great project. For Buffalo's benefit, I hope Uniland shoves it down a lot of people's throats.

I am all for this new construction and feel it is a great start in helping our city grow. We have to realize that much of buffalos old money and many influential people are living in the Park Lane Condominiums and they are not going to let this be built without a fight. So all of us in favor of this need to be heard louder than those opposing it. We need to start petitions in favor of this, the campaign can be titled “Raise the Cranes”. Its great that 60% of the interested future residents of this building are from the suburbs , that will bring their money back in to the city where it is needed.

To all of you trying to stop development : Move

So if the people who are opposed to this tower (which I love by the way) get their way and block it's construction - what are the chances that this same tower can be built downtown? If the market for these high-end units is there - people will buy them no matter where they are built and downtown may be an even more appealing market.....

Why must there always be people who want to slow up - or stop projects that bring significant improvement and appeal to the area?? WHYYYYYYY????

Oh - to clarify my post above - I love the proposed tower design......not the people opposed to it.........I guess that could be construed the wrong way....

The biggest problem with parking on Lancaster is the hospital workers parking there chewing up a good amount of the spots. While I was living in Rochester's Corn Hill neighborhood we were issued local parking passes to park on the street. This would curb the employees from Gates parking there.

Can you imagine the publicity Buffalo would get if the Issa tower, Bass Pro and this complex were being constructed simultaneously?

Oops, sorry. We cant have tiered parking for Bass Pro. People from Amherst and Clarence can and will happily take the bus. And isn't there some danger that the Issa tower will negatively impact bird migrations?

I wonder if the obstructionists within the Parklane have ever considered that their great block of a building obstructs the views of many people.

Beautiful! Built It!!

Daniel sack,

I think you would have to agree that a driveway on Lancaster is much better than the current driveway on the Circle. You and your neighbors should back down. This is a good project for the city.

Besides from what I understand Uniland could be filling in that big parking lot on Lancaster in the future with townhouses. That would be extra good. The city needs to unite against the greedy self interests and move into the 21st century.

It look's BEAUTIFUL !!! I hope it gets built. And if Elfvin opposes it ..TOO BAD !!! He is old and will die soon. So don't put your "position" in the way of this. Do what is right for "BUFFALO" , not what is best for people living in an old building.

Also Daniel Sack

How many other curb cuts have you opposed on Lancaster? I know that are at least 20 new ones in the last 10 years or so for individual home owners.

I waited for the design, kept my mouth shut for a while, hoping that I would see a beautifuly integrated and respectful design for a sensitive circle...and what do we get? Clean, fresh air for the hundred or so new condo owners and a severe and passe tower that you can find in dozens of cities on dozens of forgettable corners (my old neighborhood in Toronto a classic and especially ugly example). Taste will be taste. Once again, Buffalo Rising's forum descends into blunt and cartoonish polarization of the arguments for projects like this. I would smile to see this tower built downtown, where its scale and textures are much better tailored to the existing structures. At Gates Circle it just looks stupid, but people in this city are so ripe for being dazzled by anything that their vision of the actual textures, patterns, materials and scale of the most beautiful neighborhoods goes dim. This is a mediocre building at the wrong site, and Uniland would save themselves a lot of aspirin if they just built it downtown, where they could still find buyers in high rnages.

And Newell... How did you know at 8:05 a.m. that "consensus seems to rally behind the...design"? That's the kind of writing, in addition to the cliches and platitudes, that makes BRO seem parochial when it addresses difficult and complex projects like this one.

Build it now. Go Buffalo!!

Good points RonR.

:)

SNOBBERY AND ELITISM! I see no reason why a variety of scales, textures and materials and styles cannot coexist in this neighborhood (even though they already do). These folks (EricOak, Daniel Sack and al-alo) don't seem to care about "good" design. They only care about "fitting in" with the style that THEY have chosen as the official style.

RonR, Right you are and that was my point; taste is relative, so I can't fault anyone for finding this tower design distinguished. That is their tatse. I just find it dull and common and I think it's a very bad fit for that curve of Gates Circle. This building shouts for a context of other modern high rises, so I'm just confused about why people find it so exciting...but there you are..taste and competing visions of what Buffalo's older residential (and historic) neighborhoods should look like. That said, I don't believe I have ever called anyone names or used heavy sarcasm or simply berated someone for thinking differently than I do. Why do so many posters on BRO do that?

What do I think should go there? Probably nothing. The tower could go so many other places downtown and be successful. I was very glad to see the Park Lane torn down, but 23 stories is just too tall for a circle whose surrounding neighborhood is overwhelmingly late Victorian or just after Victorian houses. It just makes no sense to me, just as the hospital makes no sense to me. So why add more shadow and height to an already compromised circle?

The Park Lane condos that do exist now, however, seem to be a decent fit because they don't dominate the fountain and green space of the parkway and the circle. The original Park Lane restaurant was a gracious old Georgian Mansion, and that fit beautifully into the curves and architecture, the stone and greenery of Gates Circle. This tower does not. As I said, it is entirely unremarkable and can be seen all over North America, Europe and Asia. In most cities, nobody even notices a tower like this because they are so dull and so common.

But Buffalo is not common, and especially not commom at the gate way to the only citywide connected Olmsted parkway system in the country. Even some sections of Elmwood Avenue would be better suited to this design. But what people often forget when they hunger for development at any cost, is that short-sighted development is part of what ruined so many stretches of Buffalo's streetscapes. When you have an older, historical city like Buffalo, you harmonize carefully the disparate elements, especially in older residential sections of houses, gardens, and parkways. My cousin from Florida was here this morning and he was stunned, simply stunned at the beauty and harmony of so many Buffalo streets and neighborhoods. He did not mention being fascinated or pleased by any tall buildings. In the end, what Buffalo needs are specific development guidelines for the most sensitive architectural and historical areas. And laws to stop willful neglect that leads to demolition.

We can have both our glass towers and the softer, textured, and subtler architectural skin you see when Chapin parkway weds Delaware avenue at Gates Circle.

Based on the renderings, the proposed Gates Circle tower looks very much in scale with the rest of the buildings. It's flanked on both sides by massive, mid-rise buildings so the slender form contrats well with them, but is not so tall as to dwarf them. It looks to be maybe 2-3 times as tall, and not nearly as massive, so it presents an overall good composition.

It is rather disappointing to see such negativity towards what looks like a very well thought out project. The design is modern and distinctive for the Buffalo area without being gaudy. While you might find similar buildings in Toronto or other large cities, you won't find them in Buffalo, and that's what matters. This building would be a big plus for Buffalo, and should be built. It would be a major blow to the city if the obstructionists get their way.

I can't believe it. There are actually people out there spending their time and money on a lawsuit regarding a curb cut for an upscale residential building! Unreal.

THIS PROJECT WILL NEVER HAPPEN - too many retired hairy crotches with too much clout live in the park lane condos - in this town, they can tie up this project for an eternity- only place in the country where a small minority can prevent a project of this magnitude.

just another cool project in a long list - that we can all get excited about then depressed when it falls apart.

Living here is a mind f-ck

THIS CITY WOULD BE SOO COOL IF WE COULD GET JUST A LITTLE DEVELOPMENT

who's the realtor...i'll buy two units off plan, thank you

Euclidian, My family, both sides, came from the East side and I worked in the heart of the East side through high school. I had relatives in the worst part of the East side until the mid eighties and friends there until the mid nineties. I know the area well and I also like many streets on the East side. Maybe you don't. Every city I know has scarred, poor neighborhoods, and I have seen far grimmer ones than those in Buffalo. Your sarcasm is a distraction. We're trying to debate the merits of this particular building at this particular site. It's more than possible to be in favor of new development but not support every single project at every site. I enthusiastically supported the hotel on Elmwood. I'm working along with many other folks to bring MORE development to Elmwood Ave (would love to see a modest high rise there). So, why don't we all stick to good argument and debate and leave the sarcasm, the reckless assertions, the character destruction to simpler minds.

Jet2Vegas - you stole the words right out of my mouth. Airflow & views??? The airflow thing is wacky. Also, the paper said that the Park Lane chick had 2,000 signatures. Are all these peeps concerned about airflow and views? That seems pretty unrealistic.

Richard Lippes ESQ is on the job once again, taking any obstructionist job he can find. Anything to make the almighty dollar Lippes!!! Fight to block the waterfront, the casino, and now a condo. Please save us Richard!!!

BuffaloCook - You said it - only here would we be clamoring for no lawsuits to stop this. How can you possibly sue to preserve the "sunlight and breeze" you currently get in your apartment. This building would be a great thing for Buffalo. This area should be exclusive.

I think city residents should have the right to have development in their city. No time in Buffalo's recent past have so many projects been simultaneously in development.

Folks like EricOak want Buffalo to remain in a static Victorian timewarp for eternity. If only the entire city could look like your stodgy rich WASP enclave of mini-mansions otherwise known as Oakland Place.

I'd rather see Buffalo thrive as a living, breathing city than an interpretive history museum. This sexy new highrise will help breathe some new life into an otherwise yawnirific area.

After Reading The Comments Here is the Final Vote:

Pro Development/Condo : 62 Against Development/Wieners: 3

That is All.

It looks like it would really improve the look of that part of downtown. Let the lawsuits commence!

EricOak; I believe your opposition is mis-placed. I hear your concerns but there are other, simpler things u could do to improve the look of your neighborhood. for ex., if i were you, I would let the condo project be and focus your energies on trying to improve the corners down the street at Del. & Delavan (the bogus gas stations, rite aids, run down bldgs., etc. Same as the Elmwood Hotel proposal, seems nuts to me that there was so much opposition when 2 of the 4 corners @ Forest/Elmwood are either empty or a gas station. by the way, people shouldn't lump things together; for example; i think what Panos' did is very bad & will never go there again (only ate there once anyhow); at the same time, the proposed condo seems very good.

The design is modern, beautiful, and just what this city needs more of. Anyone opposed to this specific project should relocate immediately.

Not everyone wants "Victorian Glory".

Very Vancouver (British Columbia)

If the project gets done it will make an excellent addition to the neighborhood. For all the posts about the price being too much for Buff---the highest sale price for a unit at 33 gates was over 1 mil last summer. One of the biggest problems stopping growth from happening in this region is the "little buffalo" mentality. This area may be economically depressed, but there is still a 70 billion-dollar/yr economy in this region.

Daniel Sack,

You are the reason people move out of Buffalo. Are you serious? You are filing a lawsuit against the city because of a curb cutting permit? I can't even express in coherent terms how much of a joke I think you and your lawsuit are. You want to stop a project that brings in jobs, money and people to the city because 50 extra cars might use your street? Clearly, your priorities for this city are misplaced. Its really cool to see that the existing building there is vacant and looks like crap. Oh but that's ok because 50 extra cars aren't Lancaster. If this thing is built I'll fly back to Buffalo just to drive around your neighborhood repeatedly for days at a time. I really want to rub this one in your face. Your lawsuit takes the cake for most asinine lawsuit in Buffalo history. It's even above the lawsuit filed by the Main Place group against 50 Court street.

I really want to live in a real city and projects like this help to push Buffalo forward and out of the 1980s. Unfortunately, its people like you who stop the progress and clog the legal system with frivolous lawsuits. Can you find something better to do with your time?

BTW I'm surprised no one has complained about the lack of first floor retail.

Lancaster is a narrow street and I can understand why residents would be concerned about adding a potentially significant volume of traffic to it.

Instead of attacking DanielSack with jokes about his name (is there a lower form of discourse?) how about pondering other alternatives, or at least attacking his position in its merits?.

For instance, the Park Lane restaurant has driveway access to Lafayette, which presumably now belongs to Uniland. Why not enter and exit there on a street with two full traffic lanes and a striped median, as opposed to Lancaster, which is barely wide enough for two cars to pass each other going in opposite directions.

Logically speaking, 50 cars won't be passing on the street at one time. If you want to free up Lancaster, stop allowing hosptial employees to park on the street by using parking permits for the street. I can't tell you how many employees park at the end of the street.

Daniel Sack

I understand that you are filing suite based on procedure but I am betting that procedure is not your real concern because I don't think you would spend your money on this unless your real concern was more concrete like a concern for for the curb cut itself. The parking lot exists and i think the current access from the Circle side is a detraction. A new curb cut on lancaster would be better and hardly compares to the 30 or so new curb cuts and front yard parking pads issued for Lancaster over the last few years

Of course I don't know what they are planning but based on the tower design I think I am safe in believing that it will be tasteful and well designed (fingers crossed)

Thanks for the response, Newell. There is clearly strong support for a high rise on Gates Circle, but I know there is also strong feeling that it's a clumsy idea for that location. The signatures on the petition, which I never signed, are approximately 2,000 I believe. I looked at them all and they are from all over the surrounding neighborhood. I did wait for the design before final judgement and I honestly hoped it would be a structure worthy of that area. It's just not. It's an ordinary building that belongs downtown or on certain parts of Elmwood. I'd love to see it there.

Dude: I just disagree with you. Why waste energy on personal attacks? If you find the Delaware district a bore, I don't know what to say ... maybe you're in the wrong city?

Hodge Podge: I am involved in the neighborhood, my own immediate area association and the larger Elmwood area. This is just one concern among many, but after long thought I'm convinced that development at any cost, mixing up contemporary with older and historic architecture, is not what will make Buffalo a more vibrant or interesting city. It's already an exceedingly interesting city and it's vibrant in patches, but the overall temperament of Buffalo, its own particular charm is really quite unique. It needs more concentrated residential use downtown, along with the businesses that append to that. But what will hurt Buffalo in terms of its growing and very promising architectural tourism, its uniqueness, and its charm, will be to imitate and blend in with the laissez-faire development that is so trendy and short-sighted now. Look at Savannah, which is a very flavorful, not large and youthful city. Plunk a glass high rise on a Savannah street and you have spoiled the essence of the city. Cities do have essences, and Buffalo's has been diluted and polluted for many decades.

But it's still there. Buffalo has the kind of idiosyncrasy and edge that is getting harder and harder to find in this country with its insistent, media driven hunger for the cliches of hip, cool, and modern. As the country gets blander and blander, Buffalo has resisted that, sometimes to its detriment but at times to its advantage. From an aesthetic, historical, and urban perspective I see thrusting a building like this into an older Olmsted circle a clumsy idea. Maybe sexy at first (though I find that building makes one yawn more than pant), but in twenty five years or less, just another 1088 or 1217 Delaware.

We can still have this building! Let's have five more of them, but not where what makes Buffalo unique and inimitable is at stake.

EricOak:

you write "...The original Park Lane restaurant was a gracious old Georgian Mansion, and that fit beautifully into the curves and architecture, the stone and greenery of Gates Circle". Time for some new, graceful curves at Gates Circle, doncha' think? Didn't think so, because, as you note "...taste is relative".

So why not then, drop the pretense of architecturall objections to the project - they're non-starters. Instead, let me suggest you simply join up with Mr. Sack and argue the legality of cub cutouts in order to delay, and that's all you'd accomplish - DELAY - progress.

This project makes sense on so many levels - empty nesters anticipating a low-maintenance, city-centered life style; sound real estate investing and capital preservation for aging baby boomers; housing base for UB 2015 growth projections; alternative housing to combat the traditional "flight-to-the-suburbs"; job creation during all phases of the project lifecyle; increasing City of Buffalo tax base; and, supplementing the ownership interests ' of the surrounding Gate Circle community, just to name a few.

My sincere advice.....Get on board or get left behind!

EricOak; I do not, nor, I believe, most people, want un-fettered growth. this proposed condo is not being plunked down in the middle of Chapin parkway, Lancaster, or any other street. It's proposed for a large traffic circle which already has problems. the location seems reasonable and this is coming from someone who has been accused of being a obstructionist. anyway, I stand by what i posted earlier: it seems nuts to me that you & others may be spending alot of time, energy & $ fighting this when there are many easier and, to me, more obvious things you could be doing to improve the "charm" of Buffalo; like trying to improve the corners @ Delaware & Delavan -- or, any of the street corners on Main Street from Lafayette to Allen. wait, the "east side" or main st. corridor is not in the "Elmwood village" so let's screw them or ignore them more....?

EricOak's post can be summed up in one sentence:

"I'm all for new growth in this city, but Not In My Back Yard"

First - I love the building. I live in a co-op a few blocks south and think it would ADD to my view. I find it ironic that some of the people in the Park Lane are complaining about views and air flow when they live in an 11 story building situated in a predominately 2-3 story single family home neighborhood.

And from what I can see given where the new building would be place, the only views obstructed would be of the hospital. Not exactly a huge loss.

Here's what I think (especially about the PL people): they're afraid of the new building because they've been the big kids on the block with the most desirable address (to some). This new building will take their crown, and open up playing field for those looking for a condo in the city. People looking won't have to settle for a pre-war classic six if their tastes run more modern.

There are some friggen idiots on this site... build the thing for the love of god!!! There is so much on the table right now on the verge of coming to reality in the city and stupid lawsuits are stopping them. This city could be so different in just 3 years if lawyers and judges refused these ridiculous cases.

and if they happen to get this thing blocked (ala "magical deed")??? I say plop an F'ing Walgreens or Taco Bell in the spot. See how they like that!

hello

"Buffalo has the kind of idiosyncrasy and edge that is getting harder and harder to find in this country with its insistent, media driven hunger for the cliches of hip, cool, and modern. As the country gets blander and blander,"

Buffalo should not be Savanah. If you actually respected the idiosyncrasy of Buffalo then you would know that the essense of it is nothing like Savanah. If fact, there are many places that try to be little Savanahs. "new" Urbanism pushes Savanah onto every corner of the country. Savanah IS an HGTV cliche that is SO very boring!

Do you think I can file a law suit against Lippes and Co. for constantly pissing me off?

While I'm not a fan of modernism—and this is a very stereotypically modernist design—it is fortunately possible to design a modern building that both urbanistically appropriate and contextually sensitive. While not the worst possible design, this building accomplishes neither objective well. The scale, massing, and disposition entirely ignore the site and the neighboring urbanism. Much unfortunate justification for this is found in other mistakenly-designed structures nearby; namely, Millard Fillmore Hospital, and several of the aforementioned Florida-style apartment buildings along Delaware Avenue.

Like it or not, the building's context is fixed and fundamentally important. It amounts to nothing less than our unique local character and urban vocabulary. This is true in Buffalo and everywhere else in the world. Successful cities pay close attention to context, to ensure that new development reinforces the good character of what's already there.

Having said that, the question is: do we want to support the existing (historical) context? Or do we want to start creating a new vocabulary and a new context for this site? Either way, we, as a community, must come to a consensus on what we want for our neighborhoods. Then we've got to write that vision into our zoning code, so there's as little ambiguity and unpredictability as possible in the development process.

Most areas throughout the country suffer the same NIMBY-ism that we have here. And you really can't blame the NIMBYs, because it's just a natural reaction to decades of harmful planning and development decisions. And you can't blame the developers, because they've never been given a clear, reliable set of development rules to follow. So there's always the threat of a lawsuit. In this litigious, adversarial, and unpredictable environment, it's no wonder that investment is stifled. And everyone ends-up feeling frustrated.

The handful of progressive cities that have solved this impasse have replaced their conventional zoning codes with "form-based codes," which, unlike conventional zoning codes, prescribe the "form" of the building and streetscape. The new code is based entirely on the community's vision, and calibrated via a series of public design charrettes. So there's one large public process in a short period of time, instead of lots of individual ones (the currently unavoidable protests and lawsuits) continually over a long period. So, most of the time, everyone—citizens, investors, and developers—is happy.

We'd do well to emulate the success in code reform and development process that certain other cities have seen. Or we can simply choose to live with our existing dysfunctional system.

Mercy, folks, I'm not spending a dime on fighting this building. I fully expect it to be built--no petitions or lawsuits for me. I'm not that industrious. This is just one project that I think is wildly overrated...among many. DougK: I think the building is terrifically mediocre. I wish I didn't but my eyes tell me otherwise. And how this is the ticket to a rebirth of Buffalo I just don't understand. It will make a small ding while it deepens the bastardization of Delaware Ave, considered possibly the most beautiful street in the country not all that long ago. The Avenue is now littered with development blunders, building upon building that did little to help Buffalo's tax base or competitiveness in business or architectural tourism. This just makes what is still unique in Buffalo less unique.

Denizen: I believe Gates Circle used to be Chapin Place and I think it was indeed part of Olmsted's parkway design. It was renamed Gates Circle after its redesign by Green & Wicks in 1902. Maybe I am wrong. But it is still the entry to the oldest interconnected Olmsted Parkway system in the country and I think its vistas and textures are best enhanced by the grammar you see there now, minus the hospital and a few smaller mistakes. There are still two single family homes on Gates Circle. The glass tower looks vulgar to me in this overall context...that's just my taste, but if Buffalo wants to be a city known for its architectural and planning legacy while it strengthens its downtown, I think the glass tower at this curve is a mistake. People will come to Buffalo for its history and architecture; whether they will come for its hot business climate is a big if, and I'd rather bet on what makes Buffalo unique rather than on what makes it blend in with every other medium sized city.

HodgePodge--I don't follow how adding more height, traffic, and shadow to Gates Circle makes it more friendly to the pedestrian traffic and park use we're trying to rekindle.

David: I never said Buffalo is like Savannah in style. But I think Buffalo's signature in the future will be a kind of old, historical , other- time essence that you also find in Savannah in a more pronounced way. It should combine this with a thriving, modern downtown, which is always where Buffalo's architectural innovations and adventures took place. They didn't take place in the older residential areas, excpet for FLW's designs, which in scale complemented rather than challenged their neighbours. I think the MOOD of Buffalo has much more in common with older cities like Savannah than with the latest urban fads in Baltimore or Indianapolis or Columbus, and I see no reason why we shouldn't cultivate that essence while we develop the BUSINESS areas of downtown with more contemporary flavor. We could have a graciously complementary balance in Buffalo, but not when you think developers should build what they want anywhere in the city.

Also Denizen: I could not disagree more with your characterization of Buffalo as totally eclectic and random in its architecural lineage. Frank Lloyd Wright thought it the best planned city in the country, and the styles that evolved worked out a complex and soothing harmony up until about 1940. After that, a lot of bad chords came crashing in, and I think this design is just the latest.

And finally, Definite Assertions: thanks for articulating far better than I did how much more nuanced and precise our thinking about design should be in older cities. Yours was by far the best and most acute comment here; that's the kind of thought that will help us debate in a constructive way as we move the city forward.

I'd be curious to read where Wright said that Buffalo was the best planned city in the country? Like did he consider the L'Enfant Plan for Washington DC?

Buffalo has a nice plan, but I just don't think it holds up against the nations capital.

"I think Buffalo's signature in the future will be a kind of old, historical , other- time essence that you also find in Savannah in a more pronounced way."

I could not disagree with this more. I think you are obsessed with an image. You've diminished cultural shifts as "trends" and "fads" while you continue to worship an image/dream of an "other-time" Buffalo. If we cannot live in the present and for the future, then we are not doing much of anything at all. Does your city of an "other-time" have people in it?--technology?Music?Art?Politics? a functioning economy? Philosophy? Scientific research? fashion?--or does all of this belong downtown in your innovation ghetto? I'm not going to live in a tourist destination of a neighborhood--i'm going to live in a vibrant place that attracts tourists because its a good city. If your "other-time" bias is only about architecture --than you ARE living in a postcard.

This project originally included first floor space for a art museum or theater...I wonder if that is still the case. It isn't mentioned in the description.

Lord, Davvid...relax...why are you so hostile? Buffalo already has philosophy, art, scientific innovation (lots of this), music, and politics. Maybe you should get out a little more.

It seems like you've missed my point ErikOak.

Davvid--you asked if my city of "other-time" has all these things in it, and I said yes, yes, it does! I completely absorbed your point; I just don't think it's a very thoughtful or original one.

Denizen: The cities that have protected and groomed their architectural pedigree and legacy are the ones that attract young professional people who want a beautiful and stimulating urban environment. Of course the city needs more jobs and opportunity. but that's not what we're debating here. I don't see how my having a simple opinion--- that I would love to see this very buidling in a slightly more congruous setting-- is so menacing to the future of the city. I like high rises, I lived in one for two years. But I think the urban patterns of Buffalo streets are more sensitive than you realize, and respecting that will actually bring more developement and investment and interest to the city.

You can't argue by reducing people's positions to cartoons, with a dash of personal attack. It's sophomoric. And if you think Buffalo has no soul...then I don't think you are fully connected to the city's offerings, its history, its suffering or its moods.

That was Olmstead who noted that Buffalo was the best planned city in the world. I believe he made that comment after depositing his commision check for the parks. Seriously, it was Olmstead and not Wright.

EricOak,

did i say the project is "...the ticket to a rebirth of Buffalo"? it's a project making sense on many levels; unfortunate it doesn't pass your narrow architectural snobbery evaluation; please seek help at obstructionists anonymous

DouK: sorry if I misinterpreted your comments, but the drift of most comments here is that without this building Buffalo is doomed. As for being obstructionist, I am currently fundraising to help the Elmwood Village Association bring more developemnt to the neighborhood, including apartment towers. How can I be an obstructionist when I give money, time, and effort to get new buildings and business to the area?

I think people are insinuating that if we do not stop the "lawsuit to block new development" trend the city will be doomed. I vote for the adoption of the "Out with the old, in with the new" policy. Not just for development either, it goes for people who are afraid of change as well. You can't have growth in an area where the people are afraid of change.

Spaulding: Love that Issa tower! Great design, great location; i'ts just what Buffalo needs.

Mr. Sack will get his way and this project will, like too many before it, just wither away. What will be left will be a track of land that people will drive by and always wonder why "someone doesn't do something exciting or creative with a parcel that has so much potential."

b/t/w... Why hasn't bar complaints been filed against the lawyers that file cases without merit and who use the courts as a pawn to promote their own agendas or harass those they don't like? Let the BRO readers get off their ass and do something. Post an article how readers can file bar complaints against offending lawyers.

Jet2Vegas:

Las Vegas is the most vile city in America I have ever seen. Phoenix will be unlivable in 50 years. But I'm glad you enjoy those places and I wish you well there.

The majority would choose job and economy growth over building your "perfect" city. Sure we'd all like to see things done the correct way but right now we NEED job and economy growth.

EricOak:

i've reread your posts and can only characterize them as 'obstructionist' given comments such as "...(the Gates Circle tower) just looks stupid..." and "...this is a mediocre building at the wrong site...just built it downtown"

"...I just find it (the Gate Circle project) dull and common and...a very bad fit for that curve of Gates Circle, ...so I'm just confused about why people find it so exciting"

it's obvious many disagree with your sense of architectual aesthetics, yet you continue to dig in your heels...what would you call it, if not 'obstructionist'?

i suggest you just stay confused and allow the project unfold and realize its potential