Buffalo Rising Online

wtf...this city is gonna suck forever...im the biggest buffalo advocate there is...but if even a project like this is going to be stopped by people who have flawed perceptions of whats best for buttalo then there is no hope for this city. The casino wouldnt bring money to buffalo but holy shit it would bring SOMETHING for people to do in buffalo when the sabres arent playing.

The project is stopped because of the law. Gambling is illegal in NYS. That piece of land may be owned by the Senecas, but that doesn't make it part of their sovereign territory. From the BN article:

"The question answered in today's ruling is whether the land on Michigan Avenue, bought by the Senecas in 2005, is legally considered sovereign Seneca territory. The lawsuit claimed the Senecas can only operate a casino on land considered sovereign.

The land was purchased with funds from the 1990 Seneca Nation Land Claims Settlement Act, which settled the question of longterm leases in the city of Salamanca.

The Senecas said the settlement act gave them the right to expand their territory. John J. LaFalce, who co-wrote the legislation while a congressman, said the act never was intended to legitimize gambling casinos off the reservation."

Best News the city has received in a LONG time. Enough with these 'big-bang' solutions, guys like Rocco Termini are the future of the city, not the SGC. Good work!

What about Bingo halls, QTB's, lottery system. Of course it's LEGAL in NYS to gamble. And so what are we suppost to do with the current hole in ground and steel that's already been put into place for what was suppost to the new Casino? I'd just leave it and say "there, look at this instead, Mutha fu**".

thats exactly what they'll do...itll just add to the rubble and "promises of a future" buffalo pretends to hold

You guys are funny

We need another judge here, I'm sure it was set up all along. Well, there goes the new 1,000 jobs we were promised AGAIN.

this is so g*y...leave the senecas alone...this city is soo messed up its beyond belief. First the unions kill bashar's plans on investing in Buffalo, now politicians are stopping a $300 million investment as a source of entertainment and revenue...you anti dev liberals can keep it...

This is indeed great news. This will be tied up for years in litigation at this point, but it will be very difficult for any higher federal court to overturn this decision.

Despite what some of you think, casinos are NOT economic development.

this is so fu**ed up. hey feebs why dont u pack ur sh*t and get the fu** out of the city if u dont like the development going on! im gonna laugh when construction continues and the casino opens for gambling.

If "Gambling is illegal in NYS" why is there a Casino in Niagara Falls NY? As far as "'big-bang' solutions", I don't know any reasonable person who thinks that one business will create a boom. I'm not a fan of gambling, but I'm all for a diverse water front. I'm sure the same people who don't want a casino are on their way to protest the new Peace Bridge. Just when I was getting so proud of my city a hand full of people stop progress.

So how is it that Seneca's are able to operate a Casino in Niagara Falls on land they bought from that city? Last time I looked Niagara Falls was part of New York. Can one of you left leaning liberal anti-casino lawyers explain this for us?

Casino gambling is illegal in NYS. If the Senecas want to hold a church bingo or a meat raffle in their blue shed, I assume they're free to do it.

As for the work already done on the site, too bad for them. The lawsuit wasn't a secret. They knew perfectly well that this day might come, and they chose to go ahead anyway.

1, 000 jobs? What cocktail waitresses and black jack dealers? That comment pretty well sums up Buffalo's problems. Need more focus on real jobs not casinos and fishing stores where only a few get rich at the public's expense. Very short-sighted thinkers here.

A casino that would cater to locals isn't progress. It's a way to enrich others at our expense.

Seriously all, lets do a little research before we form opinions. 1,000 jobs and money for the city sounds great right? Where the hell do you think they are making these huge profits from? Your pocket and mine. We are giving them hundreds of millions of dollars and then we are supposed to get excited when we get $7 million of it back? It is basic economics folks. If money is spent in one place it can not be spent in another. Every job the casio would have created would have been taken one from another downtown establishment. Don't buy into the SGC's one liners, "1000 jobs and $7 million dollars". Nothing in this world is free.

I'm delighted by this news. I'm not necessarily anti-gambling, but this deal stunk. The state can't raise taxes much more, so they found a new way of revenue creation. They made a deal with a few Indians, a decision in which we had little to no input. This was meant to make money for the state, the Indians, and their investors. If this was for Buffalo and the municipalities, it would've been better to just legalize gambling (like in many other states) and put it out to bid. Let Harrah's, MGM, Caesar's, etc. and Seneca Gaming bid for the license and we'd see who could give us the best deal. But that was never the point. This was an inside deal with the state and it kept out other competition. Casinos aren't development, they just crap out local money in a dirtier form. Most places now have gambling so it's not like we were bound to get lots of out-of-town money. This was yet another attempt by the state to avoid having to make real changes to doing business in this state. It was easier to collect gambling money than to lower the costs of doing business (taxes, regulation) that would attract real, lasting development.

This sucks but I'm really getting used to this in Buffalo. There is a certain population in Buffalo that is really against any progress and wants to stick to their old ways. Where were all these groups when Buffalo put up the Skyway and built Ralph Wilson in Orchard Park. This is a huge set back for Buffalo!!! For you whiners, why does it bother you so much that some of us want to gamble and want to see something built in Buffalo. You lose NOTHING. Dont go and it doesnt cost you anything.

feebs you're wrong...they dont take money out of your pocket unless you play there...and if you are going to say they take part of your tax dollars stop, homeless people who use it to buy crack have been doing it for years...

1000 jobs at 7 bucks an hr > 1000 people on welfare....your logic is unreal. So instead of sitting home i might go see a show at the casino or have dinner and this is a bad thing because im spending my money? Why build malls then? its just using up our money on stupid pieces of fabric. Why have restaurants....waste of 14 dollars for a piece of fish i can buy at wegmans for 5....get out of 1970 becaue you and the city of buffalo are both stuck in there...and apparently are going to stay there for a while to come. You talk about us all being short sighted. Do you even have a view from your perspective of buffalo? didnt think so.

tony.. my very republican friend was one of the fiercest people against the casino.. the market doesn't work when some people get to play by special rules whiles others don't. Nothing LIBERAL about it..

I will comment on that galaxyjay - Most people that are opposed to the casino are not against "gambling" but the economic implications that it brings. I personally gamble from time to time. In a place such as Las Vegas, the money that is spent on the strip is from TOURISTS. That is money that would have never found its way into Las Vegas if it wasn't for gambling and casinos. The problem with the Buffalo Creek Casino is that the money that is pouring into the slot machines is from LOCALS. The key is to make this city a destination that attracts tourists and a casino is not going to do that. It is merely going to drain the economy. Do some reading on the subject and you will be amazed.

When you're in a hole, the first rule is to stop digging. Casino gambling is a giant admission of failure. Why try anymore to attract and develop real wealth creation when you can take the easy way out. What kind of development is going on in downtown Niagara Falls? Not much. The Buffalo casino wasn't really near downtown but it was right by a thruway exit. So people could drive past downtown, gamble, eat and drink inside, and drive right back out. A resurgence of retail and restaurants downtown will not come about because of tourists or schemes like this, rather it will happen due to many small developments both commercial and residential that will add up to a greater community.

When you're in a hole, the first rule is to stop digging. Casino gambling is a giant admission of failure. Why try anymore to attract and develop real wealth creation when you can take the easy way out. What kind of development is going on in downtown Niagara Falls? Not much. The Buffalo casino wasn't really near downtown but it was right by a thruway exit. So people could drive past downtown, gamble, eat and drink inside, and drive right back out. A resurgence of retail and restaurants downtown will not come about because of tourists or schemes like this, rather it will happen due to many small developments both commercial and residential that will add up to a greater community.

Can someone please answer the Niagara Falls question? How is that land sovereign and allowed gaming but not this land?!

When you're in a hole, the first rule is to stop digging. Casino gambling is a giant admission of failure. Why try anymore to attract and develop real wealth creation when you can take the easy way out. What kind of development is going on in downtown Niagara Falls? Not much. The Buffalo casino wasn't really near downtown but it was right by a thruway exit. So people could drive past downtown, gamble, eat and drink inside, and drive right back out. A resurgence of retail and restaurants downtown will not come about because of tourists or schemes like this, rather it will happen due to many small developments both commercial and residential that will add up to a greater community.

So the Statler project is stil on hold, City Tower seems pretty much dead, and now the Casino is a goner, I bet tomorrow we'll find out that Bass Pro changed thier minds and are NEVER coming here either.

Right because using other means of investment in buffalo has been paying off great for the past 30 years....

feebs you're wrong...they dont take money out of your pocket unless you play there...and if you are going to say they take part of your tax dollars stop, homeless people who use it to buy crack have been doing it for years...

In all reality, a casino would not have done much to the surrounding areas of downtown Buffalo (not that it won't still happen). Anyone thinking it was a great idea to begin with, take a walk around the city blocks surrounding the Falls casino. Or, if you are really adventurous, drive to Detroit and take a stroll around the city blocks surrounding the Greektown casino, which is squarely downtown. You won't make it far.

I think Buffalo may be onto something here. It was certainly a great way to get HO-Oats demoed free of charge.

"We are giving them hundreds of millions of dollars and then we are supposed to get excited when we get $7 million of it back?"

There is a more simple solution other than keeping 1,000 jobs from happening.... don't go into the f***** casino if you feel that way!!!! My god you people make me sick. "No casino will revive the city... no fishing store will revive the city. it will take more than one project for that to happen." Well if we keep the first project from happening then you will never see the others to follow. This is beyond my comprehension.

Everyone who filled this lawsuit should be permanently moved into an abandoned grain elevator and locked up for life. I am sure they won't mind as they will be in their favorite place.

Sorry about the multiple posts before, it was freezing up when I tried to post.

I gotta say I never really though about how much money the state/county/city was going to get, because I really don't care. There's enough space down town for tons of other business'. What Buffalo needs to do is create things for people to do in that area. I'm starting to believe that the people who are against the casino are the same people who think that it's going to take just 1 business to revitalize Buffalo. The Anti Casino people are against almost everything, yet they offer no ideas.

Feebs1112, is this your example of research? "Every job the casio would have created would have been taken one from another downtown establishment."

I'm sure the people SoJo wont have a problem replacing their hot bar tenders. You can't tell us to do research when you offer no tangible research of your own.

I'm still trying to figure out why NY authority over something that is "sovereign"

What does this mean for the Niagara Casino?

This ruling is Federal, and could mean more casinos could close, wonder what's going to happen to all those people's jobs?

Bass Pro will be in Chapter 11 any...day...now.

ereizi...didnt you hear? the way for buffalo to make a comeback and be great is by having people come and look at our old buildings adn play at our waterfront that has no attractions near it

I don't gamble, and I doubt a Casino would spur much development (although it would create the beginnings of a nice district, including Canalside and HSBC Arena), but seriously??? Someone finally put their money where their mouth was, and did something, and people sued and won.

I think we need to look to the governor to legalize gambling in this district of New York State, and let the Senecas have at it. I was in Milwaukee over the weekend, and they have an Indian Casino just outside of their downtown. Funny, I had a hard time getting a hotel in Downtown Milwaukee, and the bars and restaurants downtown were PACKED. Tell me again how a Casino would/will kill Downtown Buffalo? Oh what did you say?....you THINK it would. Try getting some facts sometime, and venture outside of Western New York, where the world is leaving us behind....

Due to the VERY vocal minority that consitently keeps Buffalo in 1960, I am a little less proud to be from Buffalo today than I was yesterday...

Thank God!

galaxy jay --

That's the thing -- I don't dislike gambling. I've been to a few casinos in my time, and generally had an ok time.

What I dislike is the idea that gambling represents progress or economic development. A casino that would cater primarily to local people isn't a positive development.

sbrof - if your buddy is pro-development (con/lib aside) then he would definitely see the benefits of having a casino. People are saying look at NF or look at Detriot. Those cities suck to begin with. They have nothing else. When you couple a casino with other attractions and hotels and retail, you begin to get real tourist dollars. Look at NF, Canada, or Las Vegas. You need to have someone break ground first, then others will fill in.

PS - Who else is realistically thinking about investing in Buffalo, NY?

At one point I also thought that casino jobs were low wage, bottom feeder jobs. But, having the opportunity to visit the 'workers cafeteria' in Niagara Falls changed that. Not only do the casinos pay their employees very well for low skilled jobs, but they also provide one hot meal per shift and as much cereal, muffins, yogurt, etc as you want. The food is the same menu as the restaurant and it is excellent - and you get as much as you can put on your plate. I understand many people are against casinos, but I guarantee that if this casino becomes operational it will give the thousands of families who are employed there a better life.

Of course, like the lottery, quickdraw, Bingo and all other gambling operations, it will cause problems. But it will also give Erie County and the city of Buffalo millions to spur economic development. I was never thrilled about the idea of a casino in Buffalo, but at some point you have to step back and look at the whole picture. New York State allows gambling, it just regulates how and where. Is this really that much worse?

glaxyjay...while im as pissed about this as you. Id be more inclined to blame conservatives and theri inability to ever want to change anything or spend their precious money for this

The claim that the casino would cater to locals isn't based on psychic powers -- it's based primarily on the Seneca's business plan. I believe they drew up a new one when the original was made public and proved to be an embarrassment.

The claim is also made by simple geography. There are already casinos in NF, Salamanca, and outside Syracuse. And there are smaller gambling operations in Ft. Erie and Hamburg. Plus the country is chock full of Indian casinos elsewhere, to say nothing of Vegas or Atlantic City. It's hard to imagine people traveling from very far to Buffalo to gamble.

I think that the Judge ruled against the Casino because of the proposed signage, I mean look at how unprofessional that looks.

Another possibility, Skretny is a fan of buffalorising and just wanted to ensure he had some good reading when he got home tonight.

Any wagers as to this becoming the longest thread ever?

Also, what if the Senecas had chose the Livery Building as the site of the casino? All joking aside, could they have had better odds if somehow they worked the HO-Oats building into the design.

Two steps forward thirty steps back...

I propose that these so-called groups that represent the public interest be required to hold public hearings and respond to public comments just as anyone working 'for' a project....espeially if you call yourselves 'Citizens for a Better Buffalo'. Are you saying that you represent us citizens? What a joke! How aboit MAKING SOMETHING HAPPEN istead of PREVENTING THINGS FROM HAPPENING! That would really MAKE BUFFALO BETTER!

This is ruling is a real disappointment. I'm not a big gambler but these casino's have great restaurants, bring in national entertainment acts, bring visibility to the area, and create a destination on the waterfront. Those who fight these projects are shortsighted.

Correct me if I'm wrong... but wasn't the entire basis of the "last ditch" lawsuit to call into question whether or not this land was properly transfered to the Senecas... thus calling into question it's sovereignty? Well, if a judge rules that the land is indeed sovereign Seneca land (which this article contradicts but I've now seen three news reports saying it was ruled to be sovereign.. just not gaming eligible), how can a judge then dictate what can be done on this sovereign land? Guess I should just wait and see what the Senecas have to say.

I bet it was the Bible beaters and those who didn't get there way in this project. (wasn't going where they wanted it, so they sued).

"this actually makes no sense...if the judge said that the land IS owned by the SENECAS.... then they should be allowed to do what ever the hell they want..."

It makes perfect sense. Just because you own some land doesn't mean that you can do whatever you want on it. You are still bound by the law. The law in NYS prohibits casino gambling.

but tony if we followed the same route as Niagara Fall, On things would have been different and a lot of people wouldn't have fought to stop the project. Those casino's go directly into the city coffers since they are operated by the government. Not a sovereign nation in the city... Therefore ALL that money from NF goes back into the schools, roads, and other economic development that would happen in their city. The plan for Buffalo was to take hundred of millions of dollars out of the city and give us 7 in return.. and sicne we know how little we get from the State I wasn't going to hold my breathe to get anything back except a new building to point and oogle. Nothing wrong with that, the new building would be nice but the economic side of THIS (not all casino's) story was a crappy deal for the city and region.

no colin thats not how soverign land works. The US govt does not have the right to even enter into embassys in DC. That land belongs to the country its designated to and they can do whatever they want there.

no colin thats not how soverign land works. The US govt does not have the right to even enter into embassys in DC. That land belongs to the country its designated to and they can do whatever they want there.

"Yay big government!! Yay!!! ....."

The government is one of the parties pushing the casino. Their goal is to enrich themselves by what amounts to a tax on local people. A casino is good for "big government."

So if the judge declared that casino gambling is not legal in NYS, and the Michigan Street assemblage is in fact the Seneca's land, as well as Salamanca, Niagara Falls, etc.. then I do not understand how those casinos are allowed to stay open??!!

Every Project in Buffalo hits major opposition - PEACE BRIDGE, OUTERHARBOR BOULEVARD, ORIGINAL COMMERCIAL SLIP, BASS PRO, CASINO... the reason: lack of public leadership. lack of thinking beyond the problem. small minded new york state with no foresight and inept buffalo officials. when are we going to shake out of this?

kooks --

Yes, I understand how sovereignty works. The land that the Senecas bought apparently isn't their sovereign territory. Just ask Judge Skretny!

The judge didn't declare that casino gambling is illegal in NYS. That's always been the case. He found that buying the land in Buffalo didn't transform it into sovereign territory. I think. The casino in Salamanca is on sovereign territory. Niagara Falls, I'm not sure about.

Perfectly said Orlanmon!!! Ahh Mr. InformedOne(Terrible name for you) When you refer to These people, I hope you mean 80% of the WNY community!!

I am sure this ruling will be overturned. There is already precedent set in Niagara falls for the last several years for sovereign land in the center of a city. If Niagara Falls is legal why not Buffalo? What is the difference?

Steel:

The only reason the casino operated in Niagara Falls is because nobody challenged it. Sorta like when you run a red light but there is not a cop at the intersection.

There was a cop at the intersection in Buffalo. And the drivers are screwed.

This is a solid legal decision and it will be incredibly difficult to overturn. And it'll take awhile.

I can't wait for the federal marshals to show up with the padlocks tomorrow.

well im glad this is not a quality of life issue because GOD knows its not within the states interest to gamble on the upstate ecomony. complete hocus pokus social bogus. this area has never even seen an investment of this kind and perhaps the state owes us for our dim reality? what if minimum wage jobs are appealing?

I was not geared up for a big winfall from this project, however i had hope that it would help integrate our districts by providing a plug that could be continually placed into a wet circuit.

Casinos are social time capsules and while the effects of gambling is generally in the forefront, this city has resources of people who were willing to sacrifice income for entertainment, and entertainment Its not exactly something we outsource by the barrel. I wish people would put down the pro or con pitch fork and consider just how difficult it is for outside ideas to become reality . Like it or not this is an attraction that was lost because someone with an ichy finger pushed the button, but why can't they push the button for the statlers tax credit? This city needed to be knocking down the states doors as soon as issa purchased the property. look what we have here! It has been to the benefit of other developers that he has had problems, if the unions are this big of a problem in this city, then maybe we should just give them the rest of their share. I question just how free our democracy is when we have large projects ejected out like flying elephants.

casino gaming is not as big of a problem during the bush administration.

Steel --

Was the same process used in turning over the land in NF? I don't know -- honest question. Beyond that, precedent isn't some kind of legal straitjacket. To draw a grandiose analogy, Brown v Board of Ed contradicted the precedent established in Plessy v Ferguson, right? Disclaimer: not a lawyer.

rydog --

"Citizens for a Better Buffalo" was formed for the express purpose of stopping the casino. They weren't formed to do any of the other things you mentioned, so your questions are sort of pointless. And who ever said they were the "voice for all of Buffalo's citizens?" And who ever stopped you from forming your own pro-casino group to counter them?

This city its so screwed up because of all you freaking hippies!!

No Casino, No Statler, No Basher Tower, Main street an empty war zone block after block, 13 people a day leaving the area, but wait, we will have a new condo tower on gates to shuffle a few ageing Buffalonians around and a new fed courthouse for all 12 employee's...oh I forgot about the 65 mill for a "BADLY" needed Bass pro...They were building a 300 million destination place with their own money, would of employed a 1000 people and given the city millions each year in badly needed revenue, not to mention the enhanced skyline. NOPE, lets toss 65 million of our money to Bass Pro instead, who by the way also pay minimum wage to what, a 100 people? Also, the casino would not of "made" anyone go, people do that of their own accord, but now that they will not be here, all the "poor" people can buy school suplies for the kids and continue to spend 40 million on lottery tickets instead... I am beginning to think Buffalo really is headed...NOWWHERE! My cell phone is smokin hot tonight and I'm choking with laughter on my martini! PA-THET-IC

On a side note maybe the cement they already poured can be a skate board park...those seem to be of real interest around here...

Would you like to know what happens to an urban area that brings in Indian Gaming without any other major attraction? Read this - http://www.noslots.com/Aborn_Crime_Gambling_study.pdf

Remember, the Falls has something Buffalo does not - THE FALLS!

Brown v Boiard and Plessy were Supreme Court cases based on constitutionality questions. Precedent means nothing in a SC case if the judges view it as unconstitutional.

The lawsuit was funded by the Baird and O'Shei foundations. The campaign was supported by groups like the Network of Religious Communities and the League of Women Voters. The casino was opposed by people like Bishops Mansell and Kmiec, and groups like the Buffalo Niagara Partnership.

Not exactly a bunch of hippies.

1. The casino wasn't a "destination place." It would draw the great bulk of its business from locals.

2. The casino wouldn't have "given the city millions each year." That's our money, from our pockets. Letting us keep a small percentage of our own money isn't some great deal.

3. No part of Buffalo is a "war zone."

4. There are plenty of examples of positive development over the last few years. There's no reason that we can't keep that going without the albatross of casino gambling hanging around our necks.

if you are 45 and dont like jazz or going to music events...give me one location for a man and his wife to go to downtown that doenst involve running around in a park or staring at old buildings?

spending money at the casino in buffalo > spending it in NF. people arent going to become gambling addicts becaue theres a new casino in town. People who gamble, gamble. Those taht dont, do not. Its that simple. Who the hell is anybody to tell me what i can and cant do with my money. If i want to buy beer are u going to tell me that i am wasting my money too? we should really close chippewa. All those college kids are wasting their money when they should be investing it!

No part of buffalo is a war zone because nobody is fighting to develop ANYTHING here other than lofts...but if people dont have anywhere to go in the evening nobody is going to buy these lofts

postive development is not made up. Buffalo has been makin changes. Ive been raving endlessly about how excited i am about whats going on in buffalo. But frankly this has killed a lot of my excitement. We CANNOT attract anybody to this city old buildings to look at and an waterfront that has no attractions other than water

knowing what i know of people in the suburbs, i choose to believe that attracting them is a better asset then whatever buffalo's share of revenue was suppose to be. A great majority of people choose to live outside the city and find every excuse to feel inconvenienced by a trip.

Most of us have spent time in a casino and know how they work hard to reel people in. we could benefit from having people interested in our city, even if they are our own. The casino could create its own exit on the 190(similar to how they do for airports) and its own existence on our metro rail. I do not believe that any other business offers the ability to cover this much ground on the scale of Convenience and attraction. I remember parking at the canadian casino just to walk around. what this city needs is a way to amplify suburban traffic and keep people interested in exploring our beautiful city.

The casino should come back with a clear stance of pro buffalo and challenge the way they have been represented with pro buffalo ideals. They already doubled the cost to build something more prominent. People already drive in for one event and leave, this is a pattern that the Senecas should be looking to change.

build a significant metro rail station that is connected to the main entrance create a direct relationship from the 190 to the parking structure. business deals that encourage investment in the city.

1. Nobody is telling you what you can or can't do with your money. The judge told the Seneca's that they can't operate a casino on the land they bought. Kind of a big difference.

2. Even if you don't like music, you could go downtown to see a play, or have dinner. Or to see the Bisons or Sabres. A farmer's market, or Taste of Buffalo, or the wing festival. Or Brewfest, or the waterfront. Off the top of my head . . .

3. There's plenty of non-loft development happening. The medical campus is a big deal, and an example of real development. And lofts are important -- adding residents downtown seems like a necessary first step toward more commercial and retail development.

"arbitrary and capricious" is a very lax standard to meet, this will get reversed...take it to the bank

Gambling is illegal in NYS? Really? Every Wilson Farms is a casino.

This is a joke! Buffalo.. the place where good things go to die.

$333 million development in Buffalo goes down the drain because a select few don't want it. Shame on them!

I hope the Senecas decide to put in gas pumps and smoke shops.

"So many good things were starting to happen in Buffalo. Casts a shadow and reminds me how backwards people are here...."

Obeying the law is backwards, isn't it?

1) im not talking about what they do with their money. When i was in college i worked at wilson farms. you would NOT believe the number of people who come in and spent over 200 a week on lottery tickets. How is that benefiting buffalo at all?

2) agreed. But is going to a play or a sabres game and paying over a 100 bucks at either of those pumping money into buffalo? last i checked people in buffalo bitch and moan about how the bills just steal their taxes and do nothing for buffalo, we ought to get rid of them and the sabres then...they dont give ANYTHING back to the city other than morale. And im sure a stroll thru deleware park is a much better time (and free) than going to a sabres game anyways

3) why would you drive all the way to the city for the sole purpose of going to dinner when suburbs liek williamsville are FILLED TO CAPACITY with retaurants. for a family of 4 with gas the way it is?

4) I agree the medical development is phenomenal. Im in medschool now so im stoked about this picking up so i can look to getting a job in buffalo when im done. But for those not in the field, on a friday night when 2 24 yo people wanna go out to do something, would they be more likely to go to go to applebees and rent a movie and go home? go to a casino have some drinks gamble a little and maybe stay at a hotel? or go over to buffalo general and watch a colonoscopy performed? you cant compare medical development and entertainment venues. They are nowhere near the same thing

"go to a casino have some drinks gamble a little and maybe stay at a hotel? or go over to buffalo general and watch a colonoscopy performed?"

This is the best thing anyone has had to say in this whole debate. Cheers!

lol...IWe agree on one thing colin, good quote, love a dry sense of humor. Now, I have to make another Martini.

"This is the best thing anyone has had to say in this whole debate. Cheers"

of course it was a ridiculous comment...your mocking it only futher proves how great your logic was that entertainment development downtown is the same thing as all other types of development....you can build all the lofts in the world but if the area is boring nobody is gonna shell out thousands of dollars a month to live there

no dont get me wrong i def am not bored w/ buffalo..my frustration is based in a desire to see big business enter downtown...whether its this or bass pro....or whatever else is designed...

Hey kooks --

I was being sincere. Your colonoscopy comment had me cracking up when I read it. But I think you're wrong -- people ARE moving downtown, casino or no.

Let me just say this....I was against the Casino because I thought it would hurt our sports teams and culturals and convention center and restaurants etc etc etc. However I came to embrace the idea because I hoped that the Senecas and the Buffalo Casino might provide incentives for bringing great lakes cruise ships to Buffalo or extending the light rail to the airport and niagara falls, as well as, taking the casino revenue off budget and creating an infrastructure fund for things like: -new cobblestone, brick or paved streets -new curbs and sidewalks and trees -new lighting -new centers for excellence and small busienss incubator campuses -expansion of brownfield cleanup and IDA funds -preservation investment funds for endangered buildings and urban infill But here is the problem....neither the mayor or the county executive or the unions wanted to take that money off budget....they wanted to use it to get rid of the control board so they could spend spend spend on unions, patronage and pork. Now that we know 100% the county and city arent going to use the casino for any kind of buffalo investment....its fine if it goes....if it was goingto serve the people...it would have been one thing but now we know....it would have served the indians and the politicians not us.

Bini --

I'll have to return the favor and say your post says it all in one neat package.

Between this and the Livery I haven't gotten any work done in a month . . .

What is with that Anti-Casino guy they keep showing on Ch. 7 News saying "I don't want this in my town, I don't believe Buffalo should be the type of town where what ever happens here stays here">.......Um, yeah buddy, like ONE Casino will turn Buffalo into another Las Vegas,,,,LOL. And as far as this being illigal. IT'S THEIR LAND, they have the RIGHT to open a Casino on this land. It's time to appeal and get it going again.

difficult to argue against your article Biniszkiewicz, great job! though sony has me turned on too

If the seneca's are our only chance for this kind of development, i guess i am interested in seeing them take on a greater responsibility. I know there is a lot of local interest in gaming and most people have fun doing it else where. I believe that our developers could create a positive spin from the local interest alone. Sure it is an unfair advantage but this is where i think we could make our investment pay off. The Senecas have already built an empire and there has to be a way for them to take their unfair advantage and invest in back into area businesses. I am just interested in seeing if a casino could create more interest then the inner harbor project. if this is the case, then how can we divert the public into downtown space.

anyone that is against this casino i honestly want to leave go somewhere else, move to toronto. this is not a silver bullet it is coal in the furnace propelling momentum it NOW is just another thing to point to in an embarrassingly long line of patheticness that can't be built because of a few small special interests

no gambling downtown? oh the 700,000+(ok not all gamble but) people that live in the suburbs will just continue to go to hamburg or Fort Erie or NF instead of going downtown and creating a 'ciritical mass' of people out and about and in the city.. i think a lot of people under estimate the number of people that live in the suburbs and NEVER go downtown.. even if it was 20% from outside the area that is now 20% less than would be there in 2010, also it was in the seneca's business model to advertise (free to us citizens) the City of Buffalo and the casino, it wouldn't make sense to ONLY promote the casino to locals

leave our city obstructionists please, do something the rest of us can finally get behind

colin your comments are ignorant and self serving. Shame this city is the worst in the nation and these ***(edited) lawyers are using people buying school supplies as a pawn in this argument. Good luck buffalo you're fucked for life. Amazing how they'll give $60 mil to a fishing store and won't take in 1000 jobs and millions in taxes from a private venture. The subsidized mindset is amazing.

AND YOU ALL WONDER WHY BUFFALOS PERCEPTION TO THE REST OF THE WORLD IS SO POOR. PERCEPTION IS REALITY

....and just yeaterday someone was arguing just how much of an accepting city Buffalo was to different races, religion, etc. Thanks for proving my point Assaroni.

1. I don't see how anything I've said is self-serving. I don'town a stake in some competing casino. I have no interest in any of this beyond my own opinion. If you mean that my comments reflect my own opinion, well, of course they do. Don't yours?

2. You're another filthy anti-semite. Or maybe the same one. BRO apparently is fine with antisemitism.

Well Assaroni's slur was edited, so maybe BRO is waking up to the problem. They let several day's worth of similar slurs stand without editing last week. Progress.

I am disappointed over this decision because it puts another large development project in jeopardy of not being completed. I am honestly losing hope of ever seeing major change for Buffalo. The waterfront is nice but it isn't going to bring in tourists from across the country or even around the region. The Bass Pro probably won't either and it may open at a time when people's disposable income is at the lowest point in two decades. I am disappointed that we will not have the opportunity to increase the number of jobs available to Buffalonians. I honestly don't think that we are at a point where we can turn-away decent job, paying a living wage, with insurance, because we don't believe that they are "good enough" as someone stated above. I am disappointed that on the day that we cease progress on a major development, the Mayor is on a press campaign about demolishing more of the East Side. In a time where we celebrate the change in ownership and hopeful restoration of the Livery, we see the demolition of an entire neighborhood to build houses that will likely result in the demolition of another neighborhood. I am disappointed that Bashar Issa paid his fine and is re-evaluating his project at the Statler. I am diappointed in so many things with this area right now and feel that it is time to re-evalute my decision to live here.

I wonder if we will ever get out of our own way to see true and significant progress for the City. I am embarassed to bring friends from NY, Boston, Chicago, and DC to visit Buffalo. They all think that it is quaint, but they also think that I am missing out on the life that I left behind in the other cities.

I had hoped to see real economic development in Buffalo, but have seen very little positive growth over the past 4 years. I had hoped to see the Casino and Hotel rise from the wasteland of broken buildings and under utilized streets. I had hoped to offer guests and business partners a nicer place to stay downtown. I am not very optimistic about Buffalo's future right now. Thank you for the splash of cold water to the face that this announcement brings.

I guess "Rising" is a relative term.

" instead of going downtown and creating a 'ciritical mass' of people out and about and in the city" --- more like in and about within the fortress that is the casino design.

Bini said it well above. Legalize it and open it to any private development or make it totally gov't run. don't give away a monopoly on a highly profitable buisness. If this was set-up with the minimum of an urban design (restuarants facing street, hotel acess at street, etc I would begin to believe this would create something besides a shiney new building. How is downtown Salmanca doing with all the offshoot private development? how is NF USA doing with all the offshoot private development?

The lottery is state run with 50% of revenue into our gov't budgets and the other half paid back to the players. Way better than this casino set up or odds.

Give Bass Pro a monopoly on Sporting Goods in Erie County and I bet they would start building yesterday...or maybe we shoud just give the Seneca's the sporting goods monolpoly and then fawn over how quick they build something.

The casino is not "real economic development"! A far far cry from it. Be glad it won't happen then you can save yourself the embarassment that the city's biggest development project is a casino..that's sad.

The only ecomomic gain associated with the casino are construction jobs and those are temporary. The rest of the jobs become a wash.

brof - and that is exactly the model this backward city should have done..instead of letting the Senecas come and build the casino themselves the City of Buffalo should have posted bonds and built it. Then all that gaming revenue would have been returned to the city (aka NF model). The problem is, nobody in this f'd up city can ever agree to anything. Too many people want to build and expand here and are forever stopped, either by politicians or preservationist or anti development "people".

Think of it like this, even if the anti-casino haters go and spend their money there, they can rest easy knowing the money will be going back into the city of Buffalo, not the Senecas. They can even market that - "Pull a slot, give a kid a pencil for school". Whether or not B. Brown will put that money to improve the city or the unions and bureaucrats will eat it first is another story.

Okay Citizens for a Better Buffalo...now that you put a stop to that evil casino can you get to work on who wants to buy a large plot of land that sat vacant for at least a couple of decades and is adjacent to the Perry Projects. After all, you are trying to make a "Better Buffalo", right?

Good luck with that one.

Frederico, Get a clue bro!!! Should we bring back buggies and dirt streets while we are at it?

if you are anti gambling in the first place you don't deserve a voice, go thumb your bibles, there that takes care of half the people against the casino, the other half just takes useless comparisons and cherry picks statistics to backup a questionable at best counterpoint.. the idea that 1000 jobs will be lost a corresponding 1000 jobs is a falacy, the 1000 jobs that would have lost can not be quantified. those lost jobs are still lost because instead of gambling at the buffalo casino they will gamble somewhere else, they are still gambling whether it is here or there so there is no additional net loss of jobs unless people ALL OF A SUDDEN LIKESSS decide to start gambling the day the casino opens

2 interesting articles I found on casino's and economies. This one shows how 1 casino saved this city. http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9E02E6DD1E30F932A15754C0A96E958260

This one I believe is a state owned casino and it brings in $3.1Billion a year in business sales. This is a pdf file. http://www.casinosoflouisiana.com/pdf/EconomicImpactReport2005.pdf

I know this doesn't prove the casino in Buffalo will make us strong but I just found it interesting that other hard hit cities have turned to them as well. Make what you want from these. I am not trying to forced my ideas simply showing evidence how it "might" help the city.

If your for or against the CBB "citizens for a better buffalo" and what they have done for the casino let them know. They are the ones that can either continue to stop the casino or let it go now. So let them know how you feel. Heres their email address: Ed@BetterBuffalo.com . My opinion is: they have been around for 2 years and all they have done to make buffalo better is sue to stop the casino. I can already see my property values rising and my tax dollars decreasing. Deep breathe now..hoping hoping.....damn my house is still worth the same, my property value hasn't come up and the crack head is still wondering around outside.