Buffalo Rising Online

Typical Buffalo....stopping anything from happening here. Hmmm, I should just pack up and move someplace where things actually happen?

yeah, and take a couple more cynics with you on the way out

Spare us the "typical Buffalo" stuff. Quite the opposite.

The people that spoke out against selling Fulton Street have legitimate concerns. They are looking out for the city's future.

Building gambling halls that don't pay taxes is hardly the way to make the city better.

Demand more for selling the street to them. If the street is the deciding factor in them building an A+ or C- casino, they should be willing to pay $10 million. They'll make FAR more than that to cover the costs.

Ummmm, should'nt the city be giving away the land to the Seneca's for FREE?...This was originaly the land of the indians before we came in and kicked them out while making ourselfs at home. Second- What is really wrong with a casino? It's not just a gambling joint, it also has entertainmnet, food, and draws people from outside the area. I don't see how this would really effect the small businesses as much as everyone is saying it would. How do we expect to grow if we don't encourage MORE Development?

The clergy was present?

Such hypocrisy!

The day that the Catholic parishes shutter their bingo halls, cancel Monte Carlo nights and charity poker nights and turn to bake sales and tithing to take care of their bills, then and only then, will the Church have the moral authority to protest a casino in our midst.

Do you really believe that Bingo and gambling casinos are the same thing?

so let me get this straight in the arguement of the casino providing economic benefits to the area. Has anyone ever heard of the law of diminishing returns. If the Buffalo Casino is built; in the buffalo niagara area we will have four casinos. all fighting for the same dollar. What will happen to the restaurants, hotels that now must compete with a indian casino. The costs that we must give up to get the casino are too great. The drive to get te casino is like being in a relationship with a high maintenance person. soon the costs don't outway the benefits. I work in Buffalo and on the weekends it is sad to see the only people on main street are tourists taking pictures. To see people when they waste money on the dollar and a dream mentality praying on money they can't afford to give away on the promise of money they odds wise will never see.This is not living in the what if's, ex: UB or the Bills Stadium downtown would have done to develop Buffalo. This is about making smart choices for Buffalo and the area. Their diminishing dollars to go around and we as citiziens should be educated consumers to make our dollars go to the most innovative and effective waves to stimulate and grow the region. The growth promised in Niagara Falls because of the casino has yet to fully materialize. I could ask the same question of building bass pro when you have two; one outside of syracuse and one outside of toronto. has anyone checked the numbers of visitors and sales both have had since opened and see if that is a good ecnomic deal for the area. asking questions isn't being a cynic

Either casino proponents are completely ignornant to the facts, brain dead, or have special interests tied to the casino. Please if you are any one of these please stay out of any casino debate.....

That being said a casino is negative for a number of reasons, which are too numerous to count, if you were acutally concerned you would investigate yourself and find this out. Countless downtrodden cities such as Joliet, Ill., Gary Ind., and Mobile Al. have been swindled to believe casinos are beneficial economic development engines, they are not, and these cities provide real life proof.

A casino is a desperate last hope for a city struggle to find itself... Niagara Falls anyone...not for Buffalo. We already have the opportunity for casino entertainment so what makes you think the proposed casino will be any different. We are already starting to re-establish ourselves with cultural tourism and natural economic development.

So please read up or shut up. The casino will only impede progress, strain local businesses, and yes take our money.

ps. THE HOUSE ALWAYS WINS

I think it is sort of wierd when a prof from Niagara U speaks against the casino. Why didn't he speak against the casino in the Falls.

Dear J - who the hell are you to tell anyone to shut up. Why don't you shut the F*** up yourself. I have read the study out of Baylor UnIversity and I think its crap. Have you read it?

...And you wonder why preservationists are often considered obstructionists. The following article seems related to this topic, because it seems like people in this town are just never happy. How can people be so unhappy about anyone wanting to invest money in Buffalo? Come on and get real!

Critics go to court to air grievances on new Burchfield-Penney Center By MARK SOMMER News Staff Reporter 10/27/2006

A preservation organization has filed a lawsuit to stop Buffalo State College from going ahead with its new Burchfield-Penney Art Center. The Campaign for Greater Buffalo charged in State Supreme Court on Thursday that the college failed to conduct a state environmental review for property that has been designated a National Historic Landmark.

"There was never an opportunity for the public to participate. The state environmental quality review process allows you to do that," said Paul McDonnell, board president of Campaign for Greater Buffalo.

"It resulted in a project that is inappropriate for the site, which includes the H.H. Richardson Complex, the Olmsted landscape and the Museum District."

Construction work for the $33 million museum began on the five-acre site Aug. 24. The most striking feature of the museum, which was designed by Gwathmey Siegel & Associates Architects, would be a curved, 35-foot-tall zinc-coated wall visible from Elmwood Avenue.

Buffalo State had earlier declared a full environmental review was not necessary, claiming no significant environmental resource would be harmed by its action.

Buffalo State spokeswoman Claire Jones said the college was unaware of the lawsuit but touted a new museum's potential benefits.

"The new museum will be a wonderful addition to the cultural and architectural heritage of Western New York and contribute to the economic renewal of the region. We are looking forward to its completion," Jones said.

The Elmwood Village Association, which has criticized the lack of public meetings over a new museum in the past, plans to file papers in court in support of the lawsuit.

"The main reason for our support of the lawsuit is the lack of an environmental impact study," said Daniel Sack, a board member of the organization and co-chairman of its design committee. "This is New York State law, it's not something we just made up. Buffalo State chose, in our opinion, not to abide by it."

He said the group had to file a Freedom of Information Act request to get design information from the college.

"The only public meeting was one we held after the design was determined," Sack said.

A secondary issue for the association, Sack said, was that the building did not open to Elmwood Avenue.

The Grant-Ferry Association also is supporting the petition. Its director, Robert Franke, said the group's concerns extend to the entire Richardson-Olmsted campus, and it fears a lack of public input at one end of the site could carry over to future decisions over its redevelopment.

e-mail: msommer@buffnews.com

bongo, look what happens when you open your mouth. thanks for proving my point, please continue being a retard.

oh and send me the link to this baylor report, id be happy to read it and help you understand it.

In other .. They must have been looking long and hard for that loop hole or they would have played the card way back when. This is more about small shot wanna-be's who stomp their feet like petulant children so they can get attention. LOOK AT ME!! LOOK AT ME!! I am the mostest important person on Elmwoood.

J - Talk about being a retart J or L or whatever. Put your hand's to the keyboard. Type in google. The when that narrow box shows up type in "Baylor university report gambling" if u want type in professor Grinois name also. If you can't figure out that much for yourself I'm not going to hold my bearh for your interpretation.

occcurs

Why don't we just have a plan in order to get projects approved and built ASAP without the public input stopping every dam thing from happening here. Have a plan such as style, hieght/size in a certain district, what type of business/clientele, etc. If we had this in place, we wouldn't be having these arguments everytime a new idea comes public with the grumpy ones trying to stop them all. This is a ctiy, change usally comes with the terroritory. If you don't like change, move to the country where living in a time warp is the usally. Or better yet, become Amish. I'm so sick of people trying to stop anything exciting from happening here, this is why we have no big exciting things in our downtown, young people leave (It's not all because of lack of jobs, it's also lack of excitment here). Did you all not hear what the plans are for this casino? It will be marketed outside this region to bring in tourists (outside money which will not ALL Be spent at the casino, come on folks, they need a place to stay -local hotel, they are going to get curious as to what else Buffalo has to offer, they will walk around, shop, eat, may even go to a museum or art gallery while here)..we may never know.

Dam that public input! How dare that public, trying to have some say in what happens to their surroundings! You'd think this was some sort of democracy or representative republic or sumthin.

(ps - The public was asked for input about the casino, which is more than Buff State can say, but who can blame the college for wanting to gobble-up the neighborhood so they can surround themselves with a no-mans-land of huge parking lots? )

With all this concern about our communities morality I almost feel like I'm in a red state. Free will, ever heard of it? How about personal acountability?

Where have these concerned citizens been until now? In a city where the bars stay open 'til 4 am, where our favorite pastimes go best with beer, where people will stand in line for 12 hours for a new Tim Horton's or Krispy creme, and where until now the best gambling was done at church it's safe to say we have our fair share of vices. Are these people protesting NY Lotto, football pools, online poker and Church gaming? Aren't they concerned about the moral fabric of the lady at bingo trying to man 50 cards, or the guy holding me up at Wilson Farms while he picks out a social security checks worth of scratch offs? People will become addicted to things no matter what you do. People will make bad choices. Everyone knows the house always wins, alcohol will rot your liver, drinking and driving kills, smoking gives you cancer, coffee is a drug, and Krispy Creme and fast food will make you a fat diabetic.

Before you tell me it's small business your trying to protect, let me tell you I own one. People have to chose to shop local. My sales might be better if it wasn't for Target, Pier One, and Ikea, but I wouldn't be in America. Are these anti-casino people advocating the ban of all national chains? If you want to keep money local, here's a clue: THE SENECAS ARE LOCAL. The originals in fact. No the city won't get tax money from the gambling, but they don't get it from any of the online gambling shops either. However, after the casino any activities by the Seneca will be subject to tax. For example the Seneca golf course near there other casino is not a sovergn land and pays just like any other business.

I expect the casino to help my business. It will encourage others to make the investment in developing downtown. Once the Senecas get the people there I think you'll see alot of the slow-poke projects moving forward. They'll take the risk for us. I trust that more people and companies will want to come to Buffalo for conferences, and vacations. I also trust that many of them will even be able to leave the casino and see all the other wonderfull things about the area, including my business.

I myself have never even bet someone a dollar over something, I probably have about 2 cocktails a year, and do 85% of my shopping at local stores. I will not however attempt to force my will on my fellow man. Be accountable to yourself, your family, and community. I encourage everyone to think about the last dozen things you have said or done or purchased. Would they all stand up to the morality police now patrolling the streets of Western New York?

Furthermore, I would like to assure J(from above) and any one else that I am neither ignorant not brain dead and I don't feel my interest to be any more special than anyone elses. I am however an American Indian living and running a business right beside you in this great city and I feel I like everyone else has a right to the discussion. J should be ashamed of himself for suggesting otherwise.

Durring the October Storm the Seneca Nation donated 2000 meals to be served in local warming centers. Would these anti casino people prefer the city decline such donations?

I don't think the casino will save Buffalo, or be the start of Armageddon. What I do think is that Mohawk is pretty much spot on.

Something I forgot to mention earlier, The Senecas donated 2,000 meals to the city to be served at the warming centers durring the October storm.

Ummmm, should'nt the city be giving away the land to the Seneca's for FREE?...This was originaly the land of the indians before we came in and kicked them out...

'Not Telling' makes an interesting point above ... but J's post attempting to censor people is amazingly condecending and arrogant:

Either casino proponents are completely ignornant to the facts, brain dead, or have special interests tied to the casino. Please if you are any one of these please stay out of any casino debate

So basically, J, you are the self-appointed dictator of truth and anyone who has an opinion conflicting with yours is not allowed to state it? It can't just be that they are well informed, intelligent, and independent but have a different philosophy or different interpretation of the situation? Quite an open minded freedom lover, aren't you?

You Know theres something to be said for having someone look out for you.Trying to protect you from the evils of gambling. Some of these same people were there to protect you from the evils of a strip bar above the century grill.

Now just where did Littlle BO-Peep go????? BAAAAAH

First the casino will take away jobs, take away jobs, take away jobs.

Second it is FACT that for every casino job created three are lost.

Third downtown Buffalo is U.S. territory and I don't think that New York State or the Bureau of Indian Affairs has the right to take U.S. land and give it to any tirbe or country without a vote of Congress and approval of the President.

Fourth the Congressional legislation to allow casino gambling on native reservations and land adjoining it HAS BEEN MISINTERPRETED and these New York off reservation are unconstitution and unlawful in my opinion

Fifth I hereby quite playing the New York lottery. It is a huge waste of money as is casino gambling both U.S. and native. A dollar is what most of the New York scratch off prizes are for one dollar. Recently a women who worked as a medical administrator in a down state New York doctors office stole over a million dollars to play the New York lottery. She got caught for this theft. Her winnings from spending millions of stolen dollars was $5000 and $10,000. She is going to jail and will have to make restitution.

Sixth native American casino money was given to Jack Abrmoff and funnedled into a Christian Fund and used to lobby (I call it bribing) our Congressional and State officials and to reelect Republicans who caused the wrongful war in Iraq and now are throwing out rules in the Geneva Convention against torture. I remind everyone that a previous Republican administration smuggled massive amounts of cocaine and crack into American inner cities to run an illegal war in Nicaraugua. Incidently what is the differenc between Panamanian Noriga and Irqui Sadaam? They were both U.S. allies/puppets. TO THE BEST OF MY KNOWLEDGE THE SENECA CASINO IS NOT PART OF THE ABRAMOFF AFFAIR but they are part of this escallation of U.S. gambling that is hurtful to our people in Buffalo and on native reservations.

Seventh Native casino's do not have to obey State health laws on smoking and will contribute towards higher deaths from cancer and cause a greater burden on New Yorks health care system paid for by U.S. taxes.

Eighth there is no difference in going to Canadian or Native casinos for of Buffalo because both of these entities casinos do not pay taxes to New York State. The small amount of money being given back to Buffalo by the Seneca casino is helping fund down state New York. Downstate New York will never allow a Native casino in Manhattan or Long Island. This is no different than the New York Thruway tolls that taxed Buffalo unfairly and taking all the majority of the money to downstate New York. In the case of the Seneca casino in Buffalo THE CASINO IS NOTHING BUT A HUGE CURRENCY TRANSFER FROM BUFFALO AND TO DOWN STATE NEW YORK STATE AND TO THE SENECA NATION.

We Buffalonians are the big losers on that!

Ninth the Native Americans in this country have had past U.S. administrations practice genocide on them. This is U.S. history. Abramoff has recently acted no different than the oppressors from past Bureau of Indian Affair administrators who stole their oil and mining right profits and desire to tax them on their territory today. These people who do this are practicing devide and conquor amongst the U.S. Middle and Lower classes to enrich the weathy few. They want us non native and native to fight and waste our money on crazy gambling casinos instead of improving health care, education, and justice for ALL AMERICANS BOTH NATIVE AND NON NATIVES. The same reasons for invading Iraq were used over 100 years ago to rob the Cherokee of their land and force march them (like Bataan) in the dead of winter to Oklahoma. Other American tribes were also attacked like Mai Lai and saw attrocities that we non Native Americans should all forever be ashamed of.

Ten the media is not telling us the facts about the negative impact that casinos have had across this country. Remember the man who had to be rescued on the brink of Niagara Falls two years ago? He was a big loser at a casino in Niagara Falls. How can anyone who calls themselves a Christian forget that if they win a big prize while gambling are indirectly robbing others of their money and becoming part of a system that impovrishes families and causes other people to take their lives? This is the fact that your maker will ask you in the next life. Did you let others hurt men and women or did you act like a Christian and stand up for the principles of your faith and assist in doing right? Casino equals wronging others.

I won't be part of anything that harms others any more. I refuse to go into any casino anywhere. I won't be part of allowing the U.S. government to break the Geneva Convention. I won't go to a church that promotes any sort of gambling. The Romans rolled dice while Christ died on the cross.

I won't be played anymore. I oppose any casino in Buffalo and the proliferation of gambling in our community and country.

All life and nature on this planet is sacred. To come closer to nature and our humanity is to come closer to the great creator our God.

The road to hell is paved by

I agree with one post the Catholic Church is against gambling if its not in their bingo halls or making them a profit.

Most Catholics are hyprocrits anyways. They are against gays but have gay priests, against gambling but own bingo halls, against hate but hate gays and oh yeah , ever heard of the Holy Wars?

Back to the Casino-- Don't approve?, so what, don't go. Noone forces you to buy lotto tickets or attend Bingo. Noone will force casino gambling on you either, if you have no self control, then that's your problem, not mine or anyone elses.

A modern state of the art attraction is something Buffalo needs. Not everything built or proposed is ment for Everyone folks. And um, did'nt we fight for the casino to move downtown after the Senecas wanted Cheektowaga? Did we not write letters to Artvoice and Buffalo News to request the Cobblestone District or anywhere downtown instead of the burbs? YES WE DID. Who's the hyprocrits now? You all folks.

Right on Tye

Free thinker you are smart, and for that I like you. However its important readers should know you have a special interest, please admit that interest before you talk again......

Personality I have no special interest..... I am a college student who wants the best for his city. I want to make my home in Buffalo. I want to raise a family in the city I love, its no special interest. The casino is no good and the sooner people realize this the better. Oh and did I mention the house always wins.

Is anyone aware of the rapes and robberys that take place on and around Chippewa Street on the weekends...YES! So much goes on that the media wont tell you because it's covered up by undercover cops and bar owners not to scare away it's suburban crowds from coming back. Oh no! Does this mean bar hopping and drinking should be stopped here too?

Apples and oranges and other perception management spin techniques will not wash away the facts despite what the obstructionists of factual information blog.

The proven facts are that for every casino job created there will be three present Buffalo jobs destroyed.

Casino gambling causes a massive community problem in bankruptcies and family break up and embezzelment of public and private funds.

Gambling causes suicides.

Oh so what. Facts and hurting of other humans doesn't matter anymore to the obstuctionists of humanistic and reasonable decision making. Next they will tell us that torture is exceptable. Then they will tell you that you need to work longer for less pay and get rid of holidays off. Then they will tell yoou that it is now 13 o'clock when they tell everyone to turn the clocks back.

Give you money away to Big Brother. A dollar and a dream. Double plus good huh!

Doesn't drinking have the same results? But, yet, noone is trying to stop the city from opening more bars and serving booze at local events.

G. you are spinning the issue and obfuscating the matter.

Yes there is some comparisons between drinking and gambling. Yet it does not make any sense at all to add more fuel to the fire.

Helping more people get into problems in Buffalo, and lose more jobs than the casino will create for Buffalo is not wise or responsible leadership or the best opportunity for this community.

Fact: Casino's have not helped Niagara Falls, Detroit or Atlantic City to develope. On the Canadian side of Niagara Falls casino workers were recently laid off. The money that was going to Canada is now going to the Seneca Gaming Commission. Either way the casino business in Niagara Falls, N.Y. has hurt development in the city of Niagara Falls. A very few will get a fortune, a fractionally larger group will get very little, and the majority will lose lots of their money and sometimes steal from their employers to get the money that they will lose. It's happening now all the time in W.N.Y. That's what the big brother casino media is not going to tell you.

Adding more job loss and problems to Buffalo is bad for Buffalo, New York.

1) The "city" caves in again - "sells" the street for only a "half million", more or less. Make it more - 10 million seems reasonable - make it high, because you know they WILL settle for less - but it will be for FAR more than the lousy "half million".

The Senecas want it, and want it BAD.

This is ONE TIME PAYMENT - money that the City will never be able to recoup once that "agreement" of so-called "profit sharing" takes effect that will BARELY BREAK EVEN to cove the costs of police and STREET MAINTENENCE surrounding the property in the future...

I was shocked that the city settled for EXACTLY the price that was first offered. Maybe the rest of us should offer our own value of our businesses and homes and present OUR figures to determine what we should pay in TAXES - hmmm maybe the Senecas are on to something here...

2) I just LOVE the stinking hypocricy of the Catholic Chursh - it's not "gambling" they oppose, they love their bingo, it's just SOMEONE ELSE'S GAMBLING they don't approve - not because of some high moral principal - but because it will cut into THEIR profits. I expect NOTHING else from an organization that TO THIS VERY DAY continues to HIDE PEDOPHILES IN THE VATICAN!

Disgusting no matter which way you cut it...

Anyone wanting more info on the casino issue should go to nocasinoerie.org Or NCALG.org. There is overwhelming evidence that casinos create a net loss of jobs (1.5-3 jobs lost for every job created and cost communites $3 for every 1$ the community brings in. Why? Because casinos suck up much of the community's discretionacy income and send it out of state and even out of the country. In the case of an Indian casino the situation is even worse, since the restaurants, hotels, and retail stores within the casino pay NO sales tax or bed tax. They do not have to comply with state labor laws, licensing laws, etc. Do alcohol, tobacco and Bingo create problems? Sure. But they are nothing compared to the problems that inevitably occur when a casino comes to town. There is a big difference between putting up a building and economic stimulus. Go to Niagara Falls and see what the casino has done there. Do they have a beautiful hotel with a fancy resturant in it? Yes! Are businesses near the casino thriving? Are new businesses opening? Do you see activity on the streets? No, No and No! Is the casino making money? Yes. Is the City of Niagara Falls better off than it was before the casino opened? Absolutely not! Buffalo is economically fragile, but it's not dead. The city cannot afford to make this huge, potentially fatal, mistake..

Staying the mistaken course crosses both party lines.

Carl Paladino actually used the word "abrogated"?..........I'm impressed.

Todays approval by the Buffalo Common Council was a another example of Power Failure in Buffalo. "Staying The Course" Buffalo politicians went with a secret agenda The deck was stacked. They ran another Commom Council Production last week but this fight is truly for the courts when elected officials stone wall against facts and what is best for Buffalo lawfully, economically and morally.

To those who will be reading this posting in generations to come please understand that this recent fight was conducted to counter the perception managers who slur and name call the word obstructionist to avoid implementation of a transparent and open democracy in Buffalo and the United States.

Buffalo and U.S. politicis is spinning like it did when the State government went against the wishes of protesting Buffalonians and built U.B. in the swamp lands and forest of Amherst.

Our government in Buffalo is for the oligarcy of dunces. Exception to the rule is Tom Golisano for having the money to buy the Sabres and to be outspoken against casino gambling in Buffalo while the rest of the business establishment did their silent twirling in the wind, and elected Federal, State, and City officials did the throw the figurative baby out with the bath water act again.

We can only hope that the laws of this land will be upheld in our courts. This battle will go on to the last full measure within the law.