Buffalo Rising Online

Certainly the DL & W Terminal is a great building for something be it a market or some other unique people friendly attraction. I don't hear the NFTA offering it up for anything at this point. I believe we need to see some substantial physical progress along the foot of Main Street and that overall area before anything might happen with this terminal. Surely it offers tremendous potential.

Step #1 would be to clean up the vomit-inducing stench that permeates where Main st. rounds the corner of the HSBC Arena and turns into South Park Ave.

Gabe, I bet that's the infamous Hamburg Drain you are smelling. I fear that the stench will only get worse, when they cut it back so it dumps into the new Commercial Slip instead of the river.

Oh arent we a great bunch of optomists...Im sure the civil engineers thought of the smell in designing the Western Terminus of the Canal and that the smell is temporary after having dug up so many years of decay....whenever that much decay is open to air its going to release methane.

Perhaps, instead of waiting for the NFTA to have some sort of plan for the upper floors...perhaps we should just be demanding that they open leases on the upper floors. Yes your right it would be a perfect place for a small grocery store and market. Hey Guercios and Broadway Market tenants...if your looking for a 2nd location...you might want to consider the DL&W.

Now if you could only get the Great Lakes Cruise Ships to visit Buffalo and dock at the Terminal....maybe even bring the trains back and rebuild the main concourse.....this was another huge loss to Buffalo when it was demolished. That would be another possibility.

No, they haven't dug it up yet. The smell from this sewer, which carries one third of all the storm overflow in Buffalo, is evident after every heavy rainstorm. If there is any plan to alleviate that, please look it up and let us know about it, L.

Optimism doesn't mask the stink of raw sewage, does it ?

Great idea for a large public market at this location.

See also Pike Place Market in Seattle.

Small grocery store and market? Think big like Boston or San Fran for cryin out loud. I was just thinking of this last night on my way to Lowe's. Since I rarely drive out to the burbs I have a tendency to forget about the river since as we all know the best view is from the expressway...pity. I am ashamed to admit the lake does not play a big part in my life either other than the usual "beginning of the summer burger" at the marina. How amazing would it be if the center of the city life could revolve around the water since we have so damned much of the stuff. I believe we are probably the only city left in America that has done nothing with water views, even city's with simple canals and small rivers have centered "shopping/dining/nightlife" around them and have created great spots for urban dwellers and tourists alike.

Iive often wished Buffalo had a large market a la St. Lawrence in TO or even Camden in London, but those cosmopolitan cities have something Buffalo just canit supplyOepeople. I love the idea so Iim all for giving it a shot thoughOe

I think it is doable and a perfect fit to the location, move the country market in there at first. I think that even though we do not have the population of these larger cities it will be made possible because as gas increases so will the cost of importing our food from California and Brazil, the local products actually will start to be reasonable in price and better for the environment and local economy. For those who think about what they purchase. Plus the quality is ALWAYS better as the fruits are allowed to ripen on the vine and not in the back of a semi cruising along the interstate. It seems like a no brainer if you like the taste of the food you eat but i think most poeple do not know what a tomatoe should really taste like.

Splendid idea, Queenseyes! We already have the nucleus of a year-round public market in the open-air farmers market held on Main Street in downtown Buffalo every Tuesday and Thursday from May to October.

Expand it as a venue for the development of food-based retail businesses, to support the mission of the Massachusetts Avenue Project to develop food-based production businesses, and we have a winner.

I LUV this idea Queenseyes. Why not have a market, restaurants, and shops at this Terminal? With a growing Cobblestone district across the street and waterfront development to the west, why not include something grand in the middle of all the other projects?

first i agree with gabe, what is that stink? does it have anything to do with the hamburg drain or anything. yikes. it's god aweful.

that being said, a market in that building is the #1 best possible thing it could ever house. it's like the st. lawrence market and the terminal building were separated at birth.

i'm so sick of seeing all this opportunity just sitting there. who do we talk to? what can we do? where are the delevopers and the people with the capital funding? do we need tax incentives for vendors to move or open up there, so what politicians can we talk to? maybe bob rich needs to give up the bass pro dreams and put his money into something real like this(i'd be okay with Rich's Market). or maybe that drew cerza guy needs to put his money here, seeing as he is a "food promotion specialist." savarino or jacobs should want to put $ into something like this with their cobblestone lofts right there. and most of all the NFTA should want this... it's a cash cow for their own train by making the end stop a desination in and of itself. the powers and politicos that be need to stand up!

Isn't a giant marketplace (like the famous one in Boston) already part of the long-range waterfront plans highlighted to be phased in after the Erie Canal terminus completion and (hold your breath) when Bass Pro becomes more than a daydream?

a giant marketplace is indeed in that plan... but this building is here and now. not some pencil sketch for pondering until 2011. we cant afford to wait for grand plans and silver bullets that are in some powerpoint presentation.

By the time is and when Bass Pro does decide to set up here, it will be a "Has Been Store". The only draw would be it's (if) Great Lakes Museum and Hotel. But like I said, it's a big "If".

SEE...Scottsdale Arizona (desert land) they have a 20 ft wide canal running through downtown Scootsdale, the salt river extension, a very small waterfront..BUT there is over 3 billion indevelopment happening there, the W Hotel is building condo-hotel, several waterfront mixed use developments, rests. shops, a Whole Foods is going in there, Starbucks, Bana Republic...THATS THE DESERT PEOPLE!!! WE HAVE THE LARGEST BODY OF WATER AND CANT GET OUT OF OUR OWN WAY!!!!!!!

makes me sad, I love home so much but dont see the light at the end of the tunnel beacause of our political landscape...so sad..I MISS HOME!!!

The smell comes from the Kelly Island Pump Station, which has very little to do with the Hamburg Drain, and is much closer than the drain. When the drain is truncated, it will not stink up the Commercial Slip, as some may fear because 1) there are relatively few heavy rain events annually that trigger the overflow system into operation; 2) actual sewage is minimal, albeit not desireable, due to considerable dilution from excess rain; and 3) remediation techniques, namely water flow and aeration, are designed to address any potential odor issues.

Show Bass Pro this site, save the tax dollars and give away involved with the Aud. Let Bass Pro remodel as they like, besides they could have their own marina and launch.

hey everyone remember that buffalo had a thriving market on the site of the M+T Bank Parking Lot @ Chippewa between Washington + Ellicott Streets:

Buffalo has a lot of young families living here. How many of us find ourselves trolling through the malls pushing strollers in the winter months? The mall isn't the draw, it's the ability to walk around somewhere that's above 20 degrees and do some shopping. An indoor marketplace would be an amazing alternative to mall shopping. There is a huge untapped market of parents and kids around the area...I think this is truly a case of if you build it, we would come!

^^

must explain the sucess of the main place mall....

The Main Place Mall is a piece of crap!

Thanks, Fox - I didn't know about that at all !! Now, if something can be done about the pumping station smell, it would be very helpful. Maybe some kind of chimney or stack, enclosed in a small structure, to shoot the "aroma" skyward ... Under the disguise of a new Liberty Pole, even ...

Has anyone ever considered the idea of establishing a city farm that would become both a source of locally grown food as well an educational tool for the community. An interactive farm that provides training programs for entry level farmers, teaching environmentally sound land stewardship and farming practices. You could begin a community garden geared toward the beautification of the city. You provide access to resources, skills and markets. At the same time you would be providing bountiful amounts of affordable, healthy food using simple technology and renewable resources. These products could go hand in hand with a Buffalo River Market. When people grow food together and re-connect with the land, communities and families grow strong, hopeful, confident and healthy. The market would be fed with local products grown by local people gaining knowledge and experience and feeding the local economy. That's why it's called sustainable agriculture, and afterall agriculture is the basis of civilization.

Bad idea. It's in the middle of nowhere. No one is going to go there. A large city market should be located near Buff State for pedestrian traffic, or in a revitalized waterfront (planned casino area).

you can't assume people wouldn't go there. You have to give people a reason to go somewhere. People wouldn't go to the middle of the dessert if Vegas wasn't there. Now I'm not trying to make a comparison; but let's face it, if people are given a destination then it becomes just that. There's so much wasted space in Buffalo; that unless people start getting creative, it will just remain stagnant. People and ideas make cities grow, it's the responsibility of the community to revitalize the city. We can't count solely on the politicians. If they were creative, they wouldn't be politicians. I think you need to see Buffalo from the outside to truly appreciate its potential.

Take a look at Buffalo's Preservation districts http://ah.bfn.org/a/landmks/landmks.html

Why does it matter? It matters because the Main-Niagara Corridor is pretty much a mass Preservation District. It may be carved into distinct districts but its relatively intact and your not going to be demolishing any blocks for a factory or office park. Its an area limited to infill development only.

And this relates to the DL&W how? Because as Buffalo grows it can really grow in two directions south along the lake and east toward the airport so your conclusions that no one will go to the DL&W are completely wrong. The question is whether we rebuild a retail and museum wharf at the Western Terminus of the Canal or at the DL&W.

AS A SIDE NOTE, IS ANYONE WILLING TO DO A POST ABOUT THE NIAGARA FALLS AIR AND SPACE MUSEUM MOVING TO BUFFALO? The senecas have taken over the land and building of the Niagara Falls Air & Space Museum and are evicting them. When I heard I invited them to relocate to Buffalo at the waterfront at the Air & Naval Park. I hope they come to Buffalo where they are wanted.

When I heard I invited them to relocate to Buffalo at the waterfront at the Air & Naval Park.

Well, as you are L, (and still insist on misspelling "your" when you mean "you're,") I'm sure they took you right up on the offer, stat. Because after all, you are the director of the Air & Naval park, and are thus in a position to invite them and all that.

Asshat.

Ah.., if anyone has ever visited the famous fish market on Germany's largest port in Hamburg would know of one of the potential and similarities for this terminal. This event has been taking place on weekends for over 300 years. Hamburg's Fischmarkt is open from 5am to 9:30am and is most often the last stop after a night of revelry Saturday where visitors are exposed to shopping, music and entertainment and the occasional eel thrown to and fro. Lake Erie has eels too!

Well its called taking the initiative. I cant force anyone or make their decision for them but I can plant a seed, I can volunteer, I can donate and I can connect them to resources

You contributing better ideas...or would you rather they just close down and sell their museum collection when they close.

This place appears to resemble Cleveland's west side market - an AWESOMe fresh food market with lots of local vendors and growers. If only we could do that here....

Wonderful building. Not so sure about the location.

As someone mentioned they gotta clean of the foul odors. People won't want to come there if it stinks all the time.

More importantly this place is so isolated (besides being next to the arena) that if a market were here it would be a one-stop destination, meaning it will act like a suburban attraction where most people pull up in their cars, park, use the market, then drive back to whereever the hell they came from.

This is the problem with having large attractions in isolated locations.

I'd rather see a market set up within the dense built-up fabric of downtown's streets. Somewhere like the M&T lot in the theater district or a nice reuse of the Main Place Mall would be much better. People would not be able to park next to the attraction, they would have to walk several blocks, meaning other retilers and attractions could capitalize upon this captive audience.

I think the idea behind this post is well-meaning, but people want to build up too many areas with very little actual resources.

Let's work with the downtown we already have (it needs alot of help), not try and build new ones.

There is a huge parking ramp right across the street used for the arena. How about connecting the ramp to the market via enclosed overhead walkway.

I was thinking of this while I was in Germany for the World Cup. My host family took me all over the place, and we were in a Ruhr Valley. The area was a heavy industrial area, Gelsenkirchen, Dortmund, etc is the area I was in. My friend took me out the first night I got there and there was an area that reminded me of that Terminal, it even has a hockey arena at the end of it, and I just thought hmmm...this looks exactly like that area. Now there are tons of little restaurants and shops on the boardwalk, it's an amazing area.

I was thinking of this while I was in Germany for the World Cup. My host family took me all over the place, and we were in a Ruhr Valley. The area was a heavy industrial area, Gelsenkirchen, Dortmund, etc is the area I was in. My friend took me out the first night I got there and there was an area that reminded me of that Terminal, it even has a hockey arena at the end of it, and I just thought hmmm...this looks exactly like that area. Now there are tons of little restaurants and shops on the boardwalk, it's an amazing area.

Again, nobody is going to go to that location! Picture it in the winter: a dead zone! Sure, Buffalo looks great right about now, but what kills it is the 7 months of arctic like conditions. Nobody will solve that. Markets thrive on pedestrian traffic like the largest and greatest market in Europe, Barcelona's la Boqueria located smack-dab on the Las Ramblas walking boulevard. I like the idea of having it in the M&T parking lot, or even on the Main St. waste land. I think a location near Buff State would draw all the residents off Delaware and Elmwood. A top notch market needs a place/location that has residents and already draws visitors. Nobody's going to take rail transit to go shopping at the market. I wouldn't count on the losers gambling away their pensions, SS payments and workers-comp checks over at the Seneca Nation Casino project to stop in. Until the cobblestone area has more residents besides the project dwellers, the arena area is a dead zone (saving bars on game night).

Urban critic, you probably know this, but the M&T lot in the Theater District (Washington and Chippewa) actually was a market for the better part of a century, maybe longer.

Maybe M&T could be convinced to give up their lot and restore the market sheds and central hall. No need to look to Toronto or Boston or Seattle for inspiration... Rochester has a hell of a cool market. Get there before 7AM on Saturday or you can't move its so packed. It's my favorite thing about the Flower City.... and maybe a more pragmatic model for our beloved Buffalo.