Buffalo Rising Online

This article presents some interesting questions.

My thought is to have the police more involved aside from simply documenting who frequents these places. A few years ago there was a problem tenant in a building under my management. I found out because one of the other tenants was moving due to the drug dealing there. The problem tenant was a grandmother in her 60s whom had moved in a few months earlier. I had personally helped her move in and assisted her with section 8 forms, security deposit, etc. You can't evict a tenant just by saying they're a drug dealer. They have to be arrested and convicted 3 times while living in the property. You can't evict a tenant for having too many guests over to visit. A guest can be considered as someone who simply walks up the driveway and puts their hand through an open window of the building during the day or night. I ended up evicting the problem tenant because she slipped up in court by bouncing a CERTIFIED check for her $128 portion of the rent. (You can bounce a certified check if you wait 30 days and then report it stolen by the way).

My situation was different than presented here but I would work on calling the police more often, asking the police to stake out the area more often, take pictures of who is coming in and out of the building and work with the city on their suggestions. Lighting is a big issue also. Gun and drug dealers don't like to be watched.

Even though Rodgers has no contact with the deli, someone certainly knows her. She really needs help in tackling this problem. In battling my drug dealer, I went as far as taking responsiblity for having the other tenants call the police over and over again. I called city hall and had them call 911 from city hall for a better response.

Why aren't the police camped out in front of these places. It sounds like they are turning a deaf ear and blind eye to a known issue and putting the public at risk in the process. How is it that we can park 10 police cars outside of the HSBC arena and another 10 - 20 in the surrounding parking lots to give the visiting suburbanites a sense of security, but we can't offer a consistent level of protection to the residents of the city. I saw the Buffalo Police Chief and the Mayor talking about partnering with the State Police and Erie County Sheriffs to crack down on crime in the city, I would expect that they could use these places as a starting point. It sounds like there is some credible evidence of crimes being committed. To me it sounds like the lack of involvement is intentional, sort of like "Hamsterdam" on The Wire.

Where are our 112 new police officers anyway?

I was really relived to see Miss Marilyn and Miss Cathy at the meeting on Thiursday. I live in the Leroy area and my life have been threatened by the owners and the customers of the markets I am going on against becouse I stand up for my neighbors who are afraid of them. Seeing these 2 ladies at the meeting gave me hope becaouse I know I am not alone in my fight. I brought a woman to the meeting with me who got charged more for grocerys than other people have. The delis don't have the visible price tickets that the big stores do and that allows them to charge what they want. The delis allow all kinds of stuff happen in the front and around them like drugs and loitering and that makes people afraid in the neighborhood. I thought I was going crazy that I was the only one to see this and fight this but now I know it goes on all over the city. We're goning to have a protest here in the Leroy area once the weather breaks and now I know I have friends on the other side of town to be there at my side and show them that we can work together.

I agree with most everything about these deli's except that I do wonder who gets the say which ones are problematic and which ones are not. Like them or not these deli's are an important sources for convenient food and serve a much larger clientèle than drug dealers and problem people.

I agree the police need to step forward more. They got brown elected, the wage freeze lifted and 100 new officers hired... WHERE ARE THE RESULTS.. are they working harder, walking the beat, actually making the city safer... I still feel they are by and large the biggest waste of tax payer money. I know there are great police officers that make a difference but the results are few and far between. I don't see criminal and drug dealers afraid to walk the street and do their business is broad daylight.

Also I would hate to see deli's closed down because some people perceive a problem. There really does need to be proper evidence that the deli owners are catering or being negligent about their neighbors and just because a drug dealer frequents their store doesn't mean it should be closed down. But doing the dealing on their property without them yelling or moving them is. But then again this goes back to police work. If the neighbors know where the problems are the police sure as hell do...

There seems to be an error in this report. Rogers has gone into the store in the past and has been threatened as a result. She has attempted to make peace but hasn't gotten anything but flack for it. She was not apble to make the most current meetings except for one last month where she offered ideas for the store to make better money through better services like a qucik lunch menu for area businesses. Still, I personally witessed a local prostitute offering to "take care of that b..." for the owner who stood there smiling along with the security guard that the store was sanctioned by the city to reinstate after they went against the first set of conditins on their license. This same prostitute was also significant in the threats against other neighbors who were finfered by store ownership. Even if the owners of a store do not take the negative road, they get their dirty work done by those who they cater to by providing spiffs like free beer or running tabs that are paid by social services benefit cards without determining if nontaxable items were on the tabs. Fabozzi has been fighting this for years to. And she has had itmes stolen from her home along with the lug nuts being loosened from her car. If these are warning signals there is nothing to say that anything else can happen. Good work that BR has decided to make these events known so these people are covered when another threat or situation occurs.

sbrof, please re-read the article where it said that

an area with eight other delis and a Tops Market in a three-block radius

What this says is there are adequate amount of other stores for the public to frequent. This is the case all over the city just as in the Leroy area where Birtha lives. Every other corner seems to have these delis, soome are good and some are bad. Most make their livlihood by selling beer, cigarettes and food stamps.

see the other mention here by tommyboyleroy who says

I brought a woman to the meeting with me who got charged more for grocerys than other people have. The delis don't have the visible price tickets that the big stores do and that allows them to charge what they want.

It shows there is lack of enforcement maybe due to way to many stores to properly enforce the laws we already have.

If I were a concerned neighbor, I would ask Commissioner Tobe about the blatant housing code violations on this building:

1. Where are the permits to change the window size in several areas of the building? Hint - look at the WHITE VINYL ones on the second floor.

2. Is this building in a preservation district? See comment above.

3. When the window size was changed, where is the stamped architect's plans for such change? See first comment.

4. You're aware that an electrical line can't come within a certain distance of a window opening. Why was this building allowed to upgrade the electrical line without putting in a masthead above the roofline?

5. How can the corner door be considered an exit when it is gated and locked? Remember the building contains residential space which brings it to a higher standard.

6. Had any proper permits been filed, do you believe that the assessed valuation on this building, which is over 4000 square feet, should be more than $34,100?

7. The owner of 257 Carolina has an address listed in Rochester, NY. Who is the local agent and where do they reside? This is required by the City of Buffalo also as you know.

just read this on SUWNY-

"There's a deli on Bailey near Minnesota which is a haven for criminal activity - stolen property is brought in and the owner resells it, among other things. This crap has been going on for years and nothing ever happens to the guy. I imagine this is the scenario all over the city, yet it gets completely overlooked. Time to start shutting these stores down. If they can't run a clean business, then they shouldn't BE in business."

Guess that vindicates a whole lot here.

Miss Rodgers, welcome to our nightmare. We have issues on our street with a business also. So far acid on a new car and a gastank full of sugar in another. I guess when scum feels threatend, they fight back in a very childish and distructive way. What they do not realize is scare tacticts only open the can of worms further and aggravate the issue at hand, bringing the problems they brought on themselvers even more into the publics eye's.

don't get me wrong i think that any one of these places that does illegal or questionable stuff should be seriously looked at or shut down. Especially when there are obvious problems, threats etc... I just don't want to see some of these business owners who are nice and trying to make a living for them and their family's targeted just because they are not up so some people's standards.

These people that cause the problems are still going to be around whether or not the corner deli's are there. It really just seems like a lack of police presence. If owners allow illegal activities to go on in or around their properties then I think they should be held accountable especially if they reward or are a part of it. But beyond that I don't know what should be done. Sure the same crack addict that breaks into a car looking for change is the guy that might go to that store for a 1.50 40 but does that mean the store shouldn't exist? I am sure there are drug dealers and prostitutes that shop at wegmans but people are not saying it attracts a bad crowd.

Businesses attract people it is what they do and I don't think they should be faulted for that alone. Unfortunately cars and houses get messed with on streets all over the city. Even those have no corner stores that are easy to blame. What are those people to do? Closing some deli's would be a good thing but the problem people are just going to move on and bother someone else. It is like the vacant house problem. Tear down the house and the dealers just move on to the next one. The problem with that is it doesn't solve in inherent problem since the dealers and prostitutes are still on the street. At least if there are known problem deli's you should be able to avoid and maybe even know where to go to arrest them. The question I have is if it is so obvious how come they are not in jail? Sounds like a lack of good police work because there are people saying where the problems are but still not have not solved the problem.

If I was mayor Brown I would get a list of these really problematic deli's and schedule a cop car to drive by every 10 minutes... But I guess you would still have to trust that the cops if they did see something suspicious would actually investigate it instead of just drive by ignoring it. Unfortunately our police force isn't proactive but reactionary. If they were stopping by and asking random people questions around an area I guarantee it would make anyone doing something illegal there think twice about that location and if it was happening like that all over the place then maybe they would realize it is too risky. But right now the police just wait around for something bad to happen and then show up to pick up the pieces.

Because police arresting people very seldom leads to them ending up in jail except for a few hours until their bail or arraignment the next day. The system is a big revolving door.

The question I have is if it is so obvious how come they are not in jail? Sounds like a lack of good police work because there are people saying where the problems are but still not have not solved the problem.

I don't see how we can say its necessarily bad police work. No doubt the criminals among the customers being complained most about have each been arrested by police many times but haven't been sentenced to much prison. Hiring more police is fine, but if you consider what a huge number of streets and blocks there are it can't make a big impact if people they arrest are back at whatever they were arrested for the next day.

Atwater you hit the nail on the head of the real issue here then. If our justice system is little more than a revolving door then the number cops would never make a difference. Just as closing down every deli wouldn't solve the problems either. We also should try and take the glam out of a jail sentence. What ever happened to making them work community services. There is a lot of garbage along our highways can could use some cleaning. Maybe a little embarrassment would do the system some good to dissuade them from wanting to go back.

How does one change the system for criminal sentencing? Is it even possible on a local level or are these things that come down from higher up? Is there some way to putting these people cleaning up the neighborhoods they have helped to destroy. Get them sweeping the streets, cutting down weeds, dealing with bees and rats because of the fear and disinvestment they caused. Put them out where people can either say thank you for helping or shame on you for messing up. even if the words are not uttered they are probably running through their heads. How does a community have to go about changing its punitive laws and can / should we push for that more than band aid approaches to a corner here or a corner there?

MR - a 2002 lien see (http://ecclerk.erie.gov:9080/prod_public_view/detail_frame.jsp?doc_id=15141338) lists Ahmed Abubaker's address as 892 N CLINTON AVE ROCHESTER NY 14621.

Thanks for answering the questions raised. It would be interesting to hear Commissioner Tobe's views on this also.

On the matter of police, we have had an outstanding relationship with B District for many years and commend the officers and their brass for making sure they do whatever they can. Unfortunately, 911 operators do not necessarily take calls regarding loitering, drug sales, public drunkenness, public defecation and urination, and others like them seriously and they are placed on the back-burner, left to languish and be dispatched long after the event has taken place. Additionally, particularly in B District, the population density and crime events are significant and the police have a great deal on their hands

Let's not enable poor policing, we have added 100+ cops to the streets, we have officers who pull in $100K+ a year in overtime, there is no excuse for this. We know that these problems exist, fixing them shouldn't depend on the local residents to continually bring them to the Police's attention via 911. The Police should have a presence in this neighborhood, 24x7. Park a cruiser out front of these establishments and hold the officers accountable for arresting anyone involved in criminal activity.

If the police won't do it, then I agree with RD666, vigilante justice is in order. Videotape the criminal activity that happens outside the store, videotape the hooker as she is picked up. Maybe we could convince the Buffalo Police to put up one of their secret cameras outside, after all this is a high crime area. If not, then provoke the scumbags and hookers to attack and kill them. Easy as that, a few citizens taking the law into their own hands may be the one thing that gets Commissioner Gibson and his lazy ass police force into gear to protect the residents of this city.

Acid and paint on cars, death threats, vandalizing homes and cars... all this and still no action? It makes me want to up and move to Williamsville. The burbs don't have to deal with this stuff. Those cops ain't no joke either!

You're right, whynot - that's why I'm actively looking OUTSIDE of the city limits. Williamsville or East Aurora. I don't need to deal with this crap.

sbrof - Good points, good questions:

What ever happened to making them work community services. There is a lot of garbage along our highways can could use some cleaning. Maybe a little embarrassment would do the system some good to dissuade them from wanting to go back.

How does one change the system for criminal sentencing? Is it even possible on a local level or are these things that come down from higher up? Is there some way to putting these people cleaning up the neighborhoods they have helped to destroy. Get them sweeping the streets, cutting down weeds, dealing with bees and rats because of the fear and disinvestment they caused. ...How does a community have to go about changing its punitive laws and can / should we push for that more than band aid approaches to a corner here or a corner there?

If I'm not mistaken, Buffalo City Court judges are selected to run rubber-stamp elections by a Democratic Party endorsement committee. Mayors occasionally appoint them upon mid-term vacancies. I've no idea how the public could influence either of those processes to select different mind set judges who'd give more jail time and/or hard work punishments for the kinds of crimes we're talking about.

But I agree with you it'd be a real solution compared to more arrests-without-prison or fewer delis. Since a toughening on punishment probably won't be happening around ehre, fighting the delis is one of the few things citizens can do so I don't blame them for trying. However it sounds like a very depressing cat-mouse game. New delis will keep popping up, or criminals will find alternatives to delis.

fredrico - You're right and it's even worse than Buffalo News crime reports imply. Notice they report 3 or 4 crimes each day for everything that happens across the whole city. There must be a lot of filtering to meet their few inches of space they set aside for that.

simcoe - Maybe you should start all your comments with 'I'm prepared to be pelted here, but'. You're right though, so I won't pelt you at all. Even if the shadiest bunch of delis all disappeared the same problems would go on. People feel frustrated so they want to do something to fight back. The good ideas for that just aren't practical so what's left is worse ideas.

I want to second fredrico's comments. Running away from this isn't going to solve anything. The problems just spread. What was one bad neighborhood has engulfed almost the entire east side. Now all the same problems as the east side are starting to creep into Sloan, Cheektowaga, Tonawanda, Lackawanna is already reelling from the problems. Those residents hold on and then move off to greener pastures. Where does it end? Amherst? Well parts of that are already feeling the bite because of problems in the University district. It is only a matter of time.

Look at how fast thousands of acres of the east side became desolate.. 50 years? what about another 50... What about our grand children's WNY. How bad would the first ring suburbs be? The galleria would be in the middle of a ghetto and the businesses would flee along with the residents. Is this something we want to perpetuate? Wasting more land, more infrastructure more tax money to pay for all of it? It isn't sustainable or logical. We need to draw lines in the sand and say enough is enough. But again most people are content to run off to a cul-de-sac and live out their days in ignorance that their decisions affect anything larger than themselves. Should be have the right to better their lives for themselves and others, yes. Should they be able to do it at the expense of others. No I don't think they should. I don't care if you, your parents, grand parents ran away from violence or disinvestment just don't look back and say HA your problem now. Because whether we want to admit it or not we are all in this together. Poverty, crime, vacant houses don't stop at invisible political boundaries.

Eli - thanks for posting this article. MR - I'm going to send you an email soon. Thanks!

BROKEEPSBLOCKINGME's name is perfect. That deleted comment didn't mention any race and didn't violate any terms/conditions (wasn't "abusive, obscene, threatening, harassing, defamatory, libelous, offensive or sexually explicit").

It was consistent with many comments from others above which are still sitting there - such as tudorguy's comment and whynot's comment. To call that deleted comment 'racist' is libelious.

On an unrelated matter I'm sure, welcome back Elena.

biz- you make a good point. But to delete somebody's non-racist comment and publicly state falsely that is was racist is... something. Not sure what word to use, but you're right it's not libelious. Maybe abusive or defamatory. At the very least it was lying.

telstart - No, he had street names in a negative manner - including Niagara and some others.

Anyhow back to the topic, I agree with you removing a problem deli can make surrounding blocks safer but don't you think the customers who had been causing problems there just went to somebody else's blocks and kept doing what they do? Maybe it made your blocks better for those 3 months and someone else's worse? I don't blame people for fighting nearby delis since that's one of the few things they can do, but how can it not just end up moving the problems a little bit?

Atwater, when the west side deli closed for three months the area was eerily quiet and we saw more kids on the street, playing. I’ve lived a few blocks from there for almost 25 years and it was like a vacation.

I am a resident in the Allentown section of the city and I have seen the retribution that these unworthy deli owners have wright on those who intend to protect their neigborhoods. Christa has a very valid point and her comment is neither lame nor invalid. Without community leaders we would be in dire conditions. They are there to defend others who live in fear.

We are losing our good residents due to inaction to defend the law by the city government. After fighting the good fight anyone would have to take a back seat. If that is what makes simcoe and others feel good and comfy, then you might really wonder who they really are under their handles.

We have to support those who would stand in the front lines if we cannot do it ourselves for any reason. the smell of urine and feces on a summer morning is disgusting. The gangs and thugs standing and blocking the doorways to corner stores only send one message, "We own this spot." and the owners sit back and smile.

There are many good stores. This resolution does not attack those that keep the peace or act as good neighbors, it only goes after those who break the law. Attacking individuals, whether the store owners or those they send to do their bidding, or those who feel they can judge from a seat at their computer is utter nonsense.

By the way, Christa, every time I have attempted to give you a high rating it goes from "6 ratings" to "5 ratiings", something is awry with the star system.

Marilyn, I enjoyed meeting you in Your Fair City earlier this year. I'm horrified to hear that you've been the target of retaliation for your good work and immense caring - my best regards and wishes. In case it may be helpful for the City policy discussion, I've copied below a comment I made to a January 17 BRO article triggered by a letter from Christopher Siano about this very same store.

www.buffalorising.com/story/my_name_is_christopher_siano_1 " We had a lot of similar problems here in RaChaCha with "problem businesses" - often located on corners, and almost always preying on the low-income - and still do, but to a smaller degree. Several years ago we instituted a new city-wide business certificate/license system which involves the accumulation of points for nuisance problems like those described by Christopher. Get too many points, and action is taken, up to and including revocation of the business license at which point the business is effectively shut down. Sure, some determined nuisances have tried to continue operating, say under a relative's name, but eventually the system catches up. The additional level of enforcement and administration of the program is largely self-funded by an increase in the business license fee. This program gives our City, neighborhood associations, and citizens who care (like your Christopher) a mechanism for cracking down on businesses and owners like this who may simply not care about anything other than a threat of closure.

If Buffalo doesn't have a program similar to this (or does, but is not enforcing it or working with neighborhoods to implement it), check out the program in RaChaCha, and get your council members involved. One of the Buffalo Control Board members is a former Rochester City Council member who worked on setting up the program - a very decent fellow who I'm sure would be open to talking about getting something similar going in Buffalo. "

BROKEEPS said something along these lines... "These people dont care about a life, they hit their women, teach their 12 year olds how to smoke Philly Blunts and swisher sweets, worry about their rims more than their kids, and get paid by welfare to pop out more kids... "

Why do we keep electing politicians who allow his cycle to go on? No wonder people leave this area every day! Why would successful people want to pay to allow people to live off the system? The taxes, workers comp, and insurance here kills entrepenuerial dreams eveyday... Enough is enough... Take back the streets from these thugs and hoodrats... As RD666 said, become a vigilante... do what has to be done, but if you do, make sure you do it right because they will keep coming after u

go ahead Eli keep deleting...well call u the new Bill Zimmerman of BRO...

In response to the comments about vigilante justice, please keep in mind:

Under Section 35.15, "A person may not use deadly physical force upon another person...unless...He reasonably believes that such other person is committing or attempting to commit [one of certain enumerated predicate offenses, including robbery]. This law was expanded in 1985 to include the instruction to jurors to consider a defendant's background and to consider whether a reasonable person would feel imperiled if that reasonable person was the defendant. In other words, if you were in a similar position and similar state of mind, would you respond in the same way. Put yourself in a jurors seat and consider a neighbor of one of these establishments who feels that s/he is at risk from the patrons of the deli mentioned above, this person may fear for the safety of his/her family, house, and other property, but may feel that calling the police will put him/her at greater risk. Past calls to the police may have resulted in retaliation and retribution. The person may feel backed in a corner with no where to turn but to take action on his/her own behalf. How would a jury rule in a trial with this person as a defendant?

Most Police Officers will tell you to never take the law into your own hands, but secretly many wish that more citizens would do the job that they are not allowed to do. It is frustrating to watch the same criminals and scumbags cycle through the legal system to the point that you are on a first name basis with them and they are laughing at you as they are being arrested. There is no respect for the law and the Police are at a significant disadvantage when compared to the criminals. The Police are bound by rules, laws, and protocols that the criminals do not follow. When it comes to situations like the one mentioned above, the Police are probably not going to be able to help the average citizen because the criminals have so many rights.

One comment that stuck with me from the Bernhard Goetz trial was a person who stated that Goetz should have been thinking about Darrell Cabey's mother before he pulled the trigger. My thought is that Darrell Cabey should have been thinking about his mother before he committed any of the felonies that he was arrested for before he met Mr. Goetz. Same goes for Allen, Canty, and Ramseur, they should have made some better decisions. That said, Mr. Ramseur and Allen went on to commit several more crimes before finally ending up in jail for 25 and 7 years respectively. It goes to show that some criminals aren't going to change as a result of a closed deli, things won't change until their lives, property, and future are in jeopardy. When it comes to gangs, one of the most severe forms of retribution is killing a member's grandmother or mother, this is one of the only things that I have seen that has turned a banger into an informant. Good luck out there.

I find the commentary on this blog hilarious, its destined for a successful movie script. The real characters being mentioned here I feel are exemplified through out every major city with big pockets for welfare handouts across the U.S. The reality of the matter, is that the acid stains, the paint thrown on cars, the Accusations of Thugz and hoes hangin outside of his or her deli, the selling dope scenarios, is a mere fact that people are not simply communicating with each other directly, and this animosity will persist, because getting apathetic politicians involved in your business will not solve anything. They have other agendas. Instead, I believe politically if we are so angry at deli's, we should really be getting off our seats to fight for a preemptive strike on getting welfare heads to show up everyday at a job. I mean, common on, why should it be so easy for them. Remember, we are subsidizing the habits of people that you habitually discrimate upon, so make this a note to yourself.

If you have lived in any other city, the city arenas that become a success are by the mere fact of people having the dialogue between class, race, etc lines, yet, without their financial backing, and the ultimate result which most people may go against, but ,can't deny brings progress, is job growth resulting in a gentrified population. It is not fare for the deli owner to have to leave his long standing business that helps cater to the honest hard working citizen and the opposing adverse characters to this script, nor is it fare for someone like the resident citizen living in that vicintiy to this deli, to have to go through vindicative acts like the ones embellished here in this thread.

By eliminating a deli that caters to a majority of welfare class or by imposing large meetings with fellow comrades and political backing to shut S(HE) will not solve this matter. We have a bigger issue to contend with, and most of us are aware of this, and its in promoting strong businesses downtown. Because, when more than half of your population is collecting welfare and sitting around all day not activating those brain sells mommy & daddy gave them, then what is their to look forward to, another blunt, or a day in the park with, Crack head Kenny.'

We are going to continue facing this up hill battle in our communities until we ask ourselves, 'How are we all getting by day to day.'

Look at the money. Are any of these bad store owner connected to political campaign donations or do they have a lobbyists working behind the back of the communities best interest? Methinks that for rotten problems to persist their is either a shady reason of gross apathy towards non rich citizens.

It is wrong to allow business's or institutions to harm city neighborhoods.

My deli store issue is the harm that D'Youville College wants to do to the public safety of my neighborod by building a cul du sac across Fargo Avenue between Porter and Connecticut streets. We aren't talking about paint being thrown on our cars or sugar being placed in our gas tanks. We are talking about a so called colege for learning for life diverting the police, fire, and ambulances most direct route to our homes in life and death situations. The city allowed Route 33 to destroy Humboldt Parkway. The city allowed Route 198 to cut off Delware Park. The city allowed Route 190 to cut off the waterfront from it's citizens. All this was done to help commuters get out of Buffalo. Now we have D'Youville College buying out owners of well maintained homes and turning around and knocking down these homes to make parking lots for suburban commuters. We have bully boy D'Youville College punching out the blocks mouth and breaking teeth and creating empty lots for parking lots. All this activity is going on in plain day light without a master plan and without the self determination of the home owners living on our street.

This all is coming at a time when the Roman Catholic pope said it was a sin to harm poor people or comitt crimes against the environment. D'Youville College is surrounding the homes of retired citizens who cannot move because they cannot afford to buy a comparable priced house in a neighborhood that matches the safety that this neighborhood once had. Put yourself in their shoes. Zoom fast forward to your senior years. Would you want a college to bully you off your block and fill your street with parking lots for suburban commuters? I have seen these seniors sweeping the streets, shovling the snow, maintaing their homes inside and out. They call the police when there is wrong doing. They vote in every election. They pay their city, county, and federal taxes. Many of them are veterans of the military and fly the U.S. flag on all national holidays.

Yet D'Youville College who has not one administrator living on our street can be allowed to close off our street and place our lives in greater danger at a time when police cars, fire trucks, and ambulances ARE needed more often than not on our street. D'Youville College speaks lies to the people of my community like the U.S. did when they said there were weapons of mass destruction in Iraq. D'Youville College says that there is a speeding problem and that the street must be cul du sacked. This is a bold faced lie.

Just as nothing can be done to stop bad business owners or slum lords in Buffalo there is also no will to stand up to bad institutions that work their harm against this community. D'Youville College is no different than bad corner delis that harm their community. The street closing nonsense must be stopped dead in it's tracks. The slash and parking lot policies of D'Youville College must be stoped like corner deli's selling drug packing and drug assistance devices and alcohol and smokes to minors.

As a Buffalo citizen I oppose deli's that enable crime in our community as much as I do D'Youville Colleges outrageous wrongs they are doing to my community.

We need to have a Buffalo Hour. We need to take one hour and do something on a grand scale to focus attention on problems like the deli's, slumlords, the imposed D'Youville developments, the free lunches to Bass Pro at the expense of the small, law abiding business in this city, the massive diesel pollution from diesel engine nitrous oxide/ozone pollution that has caused massive respiratory disease on the West Side. We as citizens are being walked upon by dinosaurs. Apathy is a plecebo medicine that is coming out of endless meetings that are usually just a snake oil tonic. Those in power seeking money must be held responsible by we the residents who reside here.

deliking... wow, which deli owners do you talk to or feel hate the system.most of these people came here for the same reasons your ancestors came here. For the freedom of a better life, escaping persecution. They come here and live in communities and social networks just as the Germans or Italians, did. They fall into businesses and skills that those before them have setup to pay the bills and better themselves or educate their kids.

They do learn our language but are not going to just throw away their own because. If they don't speak english how could you talk to them? I have had conversations with several deli workers. They are often good people albeit a little grumpy since they work 15 hour days.

I know people who work in their community often and the pattern is no different than what happened 100 years ago. Are they all great people, probably not but they are developing parts of the east side, building new homes for their community and adding life and diversity to our city. Labelling them as all supporters of terrorists is far from the truth.

You really want to take money away from the terrorist regime's in the middle east.. stop driving your gas car!

I am not saying that any of those who do sell of take part in drug paraphernalia or the trade should be excused but somehow thinking that just because they are Muslim that these places are supporting terrorists is false and frankly a racist claim. Do I see them working in other businesses, maybe, maybe not. I don't really dunno since I typically look for race when I am walking around Target but I will now and report back next time I see someone out of their 'element'

PS oriental is out dated and considered derogatory.. Asian is the proper word to use these days.

al-alo - I think your comment here was even more inflamatory than the two you pasted. Nowhere in those two quotes you pasted in reponse to fredrico is terrorism mentioned, yet you saw fit to raise the ante here by writing this:

ahh here we go . . .all arabs are fasco-islamo-terrorists

The only comments above that mention terrorism were written by you, sbrof, and simcoe. Do a 'Find' with your web browser if you don't believe me. It's also false for you to say 'after many comments have been deleted'. It looks above that only one was deleted, from BROKEEPS. I happened to see that before it was deleted. It was politically incorrect and focused on criminal 'thug' lifestyles in Buffalo, but it said nothing about terrorism. Another commenter above paraphrased what that comment said.

Personally, I don't think the ethnicity or supposed religious/cultural claims Deliking makes are relevant even if true. People have a right to be religious fundamentalists if they want, even deli owners, so I'd never say they shouldn't be allowed to run a deli here even if they have extreme religious views (and I'm not saying they do or don't).

But your comment here was even worse because of your dishonest claim that others had launched charges of 'all arabs' being terrorists. Nobody did that.

Deliking - As a matter of law for who's allowed to open a deli or any business, there's no practical way for any U.S. city to do anything about the extremist attitudes or behaviors Martha, you, and others have brought up here or in those links - anti-female rudeness, Amercia-hating, whatever. If laws are broken such as illegal money transfers from deli owners/suppliers then feds can prosecute as Martha mentioned happened a few years ago.

If you're calling for customers to boycott any particular store if they know it's run by individuals who support those kinds of extremism, then I have no problem with what you're suggesting. I wouldn't consider it racist or anti-immigrant at all. It wouldn't be be labeling anyone based on race or immigrant status, it would be simply opposing someone for their actions.

However if you're saying all business owners originally from certain nations should be considered guilty until proven innocent, then I won't agree. I don't think you're saying that - but correct me if I'm wrong.

I do not think that anyone is pointing racist fingers, it just happens to be that most corner stores are now run by certain ethnic groups over others. It is what they do in their business that affects others that concern me.

For example, I had an uncle that had fallen on very hard times due to a injury during the Viet Nam War. He would not accept the fact that anyone in the family wished to assist him and was bent on being independent. He was treated below a second-class citizen. The store owners gave him an account which they added items he hadn't purchased. Then they took payment through his social services card. On that account were his many beer purchases which cannot be legally purchased with this type of account.

So who is in trouble here? The store for not keeping sufficient records? My uncle for not having the sensibility to protect himself from unscrupulous merhcants? Or the system for not keeping check on the operations of these stores they license?

I agree with another poster here that stated there are some good stores, but there are the bad ones that need to be disciplined, some even closed. I also agree that the common council can make a difference just by taking complaints from the citizens in their districts and making sure those concerns are recognized when it comes time for license renewal. I am also in agreement with the suggestion made earlier that maybe these stores should be taken out of residential areas where they tend to become forgotten since they are not seen readily.

Unfortunately, as I said earlier, the majority of these stores are run by a certain cultural group. I go to many area stores, all run by the same group and it is indeed unfortunate that those who take advantage of the system ruin it for the others.

1stnation, i don't think simcoe was directing that against you or anyone in particular. The thread did sort of veer off albeit not horribly considering the the players and emotions involved. I wouldn't take it to heart his last post was actually a pretty fair handed observation of the situation and the thread's overall issues.

Perhaps it was the slime comment a little side handed but then again anyone who deals drugs, supports prostitutes and threatens other people are not exactly the best of us. You must admit the system is broken and the problems lie more with the clients than the deli's.

1stnation is right, simcoe has been really snide in his/her comments, sbrof seems like a nice guy that wants to do right by people. But, 1stnation said it best. You try to make things better for people, not take advantage of their disabilities. How many more of these guys are we going to see on our streets in the next few years because of trauma they got while fighting in a war? 1stnation seems to have taken the bull by the horns in working with them, but when you have some deli dude that doesn't care about anything than the almighty dollar, they perpetuate the problem with a clear conscience. I purposely drove by the store seen in the picture this evening. They had this dude dressed up like a security guard standing outside smoking cigarettes with these two other dudes that were obviously drunk. So I figured he might be moving them on. So I drove past again about 15 - 20 mintues later and they were out there, all three of them, just hanging out with a car blasting music out the windows. Seemed like a nasty little party in the hood. Then two mother groups of people I seen coming in and out of the place all came out with singles in brown bags. I get your drift 1stnation. So tell me where are the people that buy groceries here?

This topic took a turn for the stupid! What up 1st Nation, we supposed to feel sorry for your alchie friends that can't stay off the sauce? I would have laughed in your face too if you came in preaching all that hoopidy hee haw bullshit about not selling to a fellow american who down on his luck. Nigga please! Also and so forth what makes you think that a $8 buck an hour rent-a-cop is going to do anything sitting out front of the deli like a cigar store injun? What do you think happens to bucky the rental cop when he makes a stand for peace and justice? I guess the neighbors should see if they can get Patrick Swayze to play Dalton in Road House II, The Corner Deli. I heard that he may be indisposed with kemo treatments these days so maybe we can hire The Rock to step in with his two by four of justice. I can picture the esposions 'n fight scenes already, this could be the first real life movie where they actually blow up the neighborhoods for real. But on the serious tip, this don't happen in the suburbs cause the suburbs is full of uptight mothafuggas while the 'hood got a bunch of ******* who just don't give a f*** about nothin'. Ain't you or no one who gonna stop this from happenin.

This is America and if there one thing that we all should understand; it is that businesses are only and always going to be only concerned about one thing, making money. By definition that is what our whole society is based around. This guy taking advantage of people who can't "help themselves" is no different than any other business.

Unfortunately the corporation doesn't have to follow the same codes of moral conduct that us individuals have too. Welcome to America. I don't feel bad for your customers, we all make our own decisions and if it wasn't this guy selling it to them it would be someone else. They chose to join the army and hit the bottle, no one forced them to but somehow they are the victim here. Sorry if I don't feel all that bad. Everyone hits rough patches, my whole family served in one war or another and I have a couple friends in the army now who have been to Falluja, Baghdad and the other nasty-ness going on. They would also be the first to say suck it up and if they are mentally so messed up (which I can believe and sympathize with) to not be able to control themselves anymore then they probably shouldn't be wandering the streets to buy liquor from this or any other corner.

Here's another concern to consider when reviewing problem deli licenses. How far away from schools are they?

It ain't the deli owners job to tell people how to live. They ain't the cops and they ain't the schools. If some alchie n****h runs in to pick up a 40 or a six pack then who is the owner to judge. What do you want the owner to do, say no and wind up with a bullet to the brain? What else do you espect Fredrico? The owner to stop selling cigs and blunts because they cause cancer? Cancer ain't shit when theres a better chance of catching the hivee from someones momma or gettin hit in the crossfire at the car wash. It ain't no n****s job to tell another n***** how to live. Y'all people need to know that this is bigger than the delis and alleys, this s*** goes on erwhere including city hall. We got the old govnor and new govnor calling on s***k b****** to get their **** wet and their ***** on, ain't no one whos in to that who is gonna take on the local action. Hell these people are in bizness and makin' money better than most people. Ain't nothin that you or the neighbors gonna do to take that bizness away without a fight. The deli owner sells drug junk for the same reason that he sells home pregnantcy tests, because they are in demand in the hood. Dude prolly sells more pregnancy kits than he does condoms and prolly sells more blunts than he does candy bars. That is just the way it is.

This is a partial solution nytimes.com/2008/04/01/opinion/01egan.html?_r=1&hp&oref=slogin

Nobody has mentioned Buffalo' antiquated zoning code and map, which allow such commercial uses deep inside residential districts. Sure, in 1950, when the Buffalo zoning code was last updated, and most women were homemakers and many didn't drive, the small delis on every block served a purpose of providing basic staples within walking distance of most residents. Since the city's population has decreased by more than half since 1950, and the retail base by perhaps an even greater percentage, it's time to revisit the city's dust-covered zoning code and zoning map.

zen> This is a partial solution nytimes.com/2008/04/01/opinion/01egan.html?_r=1&hp&oref=slogin

I think this solution might be more viable. tinyurl.com/2g9mqh

why doesn't the city mount cctv cameras focused right on the trouble spot's front door and post signs stating that the area is under police surveillance? Obviously; you can't park a patrol car on the site 24 -7. Just knowing that they're being watched would most likely curb a lot of bad behavior. At least its a start. The Mayor is currently installing these cams in violence / crime prone areas of the city already. Can he find enough money to purchase more? You could also get the Health Department involved. After having been in one or two of these pig pens, my guess is that it would be safe to say that a lot of these businesses could be cited overwhelmingly with violations. The one featured in the story is so damned dirty that the roaches in there wear Shriners caps!