Buffalo Rising Online

Am I misunderstanding this or are the two pictures on this post the same? It looks like the "then" picture is here twice without the "now" picture.

Well, sorry but I think that Fountain Plaza was a horribly butchered project. 1) that previous building was a good building, I remember it, and today if it existed with those windows it would have made great apartments or offices. 2) they tore down Victors Furniture Store to expand the Hyatt and that was another horrible loss 3) they destroyed the street grid with the Hyatt Atrium and that was another horrible loss

Fountain Plaza was as much an abortion as was and is the Convention Center!

It is good to see the bustling street in the "now' picture...full of happy residents and tourists...Oh wait...its just two random dudes waiting for an empty train in a ghost town. Sad.

That green building was the Flint and Kent department store. Unlike AM&As, Hengerers, Bergers or Hens and Kelly, Flint and Kent never opened suburban locations, and it closed sometime in the late 1950 or early 1960s.

The Flint and Kent building was painted a sickly green-yellow (yes, painted!), and from what I remember was in really rough shape; if would be considered Class D office space if there was such a thing. It was torn down to create a vehicle loop for the Hyatt, and allow guest rooms to be placed on the lower floors of the north side of the Genesee Building.

Are we serious in calling this "Progress"????? The THEN had Department Stores, RETAIL!, BUILDINGS!!!! what is there now? NO RETAIL, less buildings, a DEAD MAIN STREET!!!! Little did we know then that downtown would become WORSE in 25 years...(Now)

Two people in that photo- I'm shocked to see any form of life there.

Wow, they have a modern office building there now. That's quite impressive. Especially if you've never left the rust belt and seen what the rest of the country looks like. And look, there's the Buffalo metro rail. Nobody is there, but there is nice light fixture over to the left, and two complimentary street lights over the rail itself. Has a certain modern-art symmetry. Same with that ladder-like thing with the wires at the top. Perhaps the Albright-Knox can add this picture to their modern art collection. Also the lack of people in a downtown square captures one final quiet moment in this soon-to-be-bustling modern metropolis.

And why is that even with the hundreds of new residence's downtown...We still have NO PLACE TO SHOP!!!!! In the last few years we've watched the Main Place Mall lose all of it's 2nd. floor retail and most of it's first floor, the 500 Block of Main Street is now DESERTED (except for a men's store that is never open on weekends)...Still no plan for RETAIL in the downtown core, and MORE PANHANDLERS and Thug wanna be's harrasing people who work, visit, and live downtown....But wait, we're still going through a "Renaissance" ....WHAT BULL SHIT!!!

NoDWN, Your anger is misplaced, in order for a city to be vibrant and attract residents it does need a strong commercial core, the Key Center is well placed. As for the retail, it will come as the downtown residential core continues to take shape, remember this housing segment is relatively new.

The other thing i would stress to those crying out for retail is that in planning we have to learn that retail in a city of Buffalo's size cannot survive everywhere and on everystreet, we need to plan and develop in a way that retail can survive and will not cannibalize or be cannibalized by other retail.

I know most people are generally aginst the notion of a mall downtown but straight out of my "I can dream" files, I would still like to see Main Place Mall reinvented with offerings and experiences not available in the 'burbs. A national anchor tennant currently with no presence in the area (Nieman-Marcus, Nordstrum's), local sports team stores (Sabres, Bills, Bisons, Bandits) where you can get gear and tickets, a food court with lots of local flavor (Charlie the Butcher, Anchor Bar, Spot Coffee) a few more recognizable stores mixed in with lots of local merchants and you would have a distinctly Buffalo venue that you could only get downtown. Make the inside really look like it's outside (Street lamps, benches, brick facades, "cars" for the smaller kiosk-type sellers) and I think you could turn around the climate-controlled shopping experience much like Indianapolis did by linking and renovating several underutilized buildings in the heart of their downtown. Like I said, a guy can dream can't he?

Blforox, Your idea is really very good, it was discussed not too long ago by students in a development seminar that took place at UB. The only problem with it is that the developers of the Eastern Hills Mall are attracting these stores which would undermine the whole idea.

Prince B - you hit the nail on the head with the descriptions of both the guys and women.

What was really strange about this development is how the City subsidized the Statler Hotel's renovation to an office building (with limited success) even as subsidized the Genesee Building's conversion from office to hotel. Did that make sense? The buildings around the Genesee Building should never have been lost.

Well.. first of all was this picture taken at 10:30 am on a Sunday morning... good god even on the worst day there are 5 or 6 bums on this stretch of the street.

Not a big fan of the buildings there now, not very friendly or inviting. Definitly there for the single use, which is why we only see 2 people in the picture there right now. Theres much to be said about mixed use projects and I just think the Hyatt was a huge was of time and money. Just imagine if the Hyatt had lofts, apartments, restaurant outlets, and street level retail. There would be a hell of a lot more action on main if some of these buildings were friendlier.

As far as the "cool" retail buildings that were there in the past... Oo well I'd rather have single use, modern space thats filled and actually generates something than retail shells that we're empty 20 years ago and would still be empty today.

Funny thing about the EAstern hills mall attracting top notch tennants ( saks 5th avenue, neimun marcus..bloomingdales). Stores like that go where the money is.... new for ya kids, the money is in Clarence, East Amherst.. etc Average income is $104,000 per year. I do see hope in the growing sophistication and frequency of the numerous new downtown residences and the astronomical rents they pay every month.

Retail follows roofs and I don't think we'll see any major retail dev. dt, however in the next couple of years its a distinct possibliity if the conversion/housing boom continues.

NoDwndesire... love the silver bullet attitude, things take time we've destroyed downtown for the past 30 years and its now just starting to show signs of improvement and life. Retail will come, where there is people and money stores will follow.

Same conversation, different thread... lather, rinse, repeat! Let's spend a few more months talking about the horrible mistakes of the past, the travesty of community planning that we call the suburbs, the conversion of old buildings, the decay of downtown, and the lack of 'mixed-use residential/retail' in the downtown core. The only time we deviate from this conversation is to complain about construction downtown and how it doesn't fit with your 'ideal vision'.

The problem with Buffalo comes back to one thing, the residents of WNY. We won't move ahead until we figure out how to cope with our past and look towards the future. The veiled and blatant pessimism doesn't help either.

... and, do you know how long it took me to find a decent wig store when the old buildings were taken down?

I agree with Urbanesque, how many times can we lament the loss of buildings & public areas, you have to shake your head once in a while but it's done, once it's gone you can't bring a building back from an empty lot. People are finally learning (at least a conversation arises) from mistakes of the past, that's the best we can hope for. A screw is loose in someone's head if they believe a major reatiler will set up shop in an area whose demographics show limited affluence and high poverty. I will harp on this incessantly, all of the projects that I have seen in recent months cater to singles or cpls w/o children, this does not lead to a stable community/population, it is another lopsided demographic. Canal/waterfront development, bass pro, mixed use retail/lofts these are all ephemeral smoke and mirrors projects. However, I have the ultimate answer to everyone's concerns, it is such a perfect notion, all will rejoice. It goes like this.... ummmm, just a moment I have to take this phone call.

Damn, I forgot my idea. If we could just bring back The Style Shack though I think everything would be good.

People in Buffalo don't realize how much this area has going for them. As a person who has traveled extensively searching for the right place to go to school, I would love to stay in Buffalo to work here after my degree. We have the waterfront, excellent colleges and universities, plenty of history and great weather from may until october.

I agree with zen and Urbanesque that its about time to stop looking back and start looking forward. How about marketing the city as the capital of alternative energy? (riverwright plant, solar power at UB and windmills are a good place to start) Additionally, its 1 or 2 hours from every major city on the east coast and chicago with cheap rents and plenty of space to build. It's really unfortunate that we have a mostly inept Common Council and a bad state government.

Not having been old enough to remember Fountain Plaza I think it looks great right now. Its the only place on Main St. that makes you believe that you are in a vibrant city. The metro stop is awful but the surrounding buildings and open space is nice.

In regards to retail, lets face it...our city is too easy to drive around thus creating the ability to be basically anywhere in 15 minutes. If you live in the Parkside area, you could almost be to the Blvd. Mall in the same time you could be downtown, finding a parking spot, and going to hypothetical store XYZ. We are married to our cars. This alone makes it hard for significant retail activity downtown.

I love Fountain Plaza! I enjoy sitting outside at Vito's in the summer, ice skating in the winter. The offices are nice. I dig it.

Part of looking forward is taking account of past bad deeds. No vibrant city today gets that way without correcting for past mistakes.

Foutain Plaza does look nice, but seems so empty most hours of the day/week. Especially on the weekends. Like, why can't Tim Hortons be open on the weekends? Some of us DO work on Sat & Sun, and some DO Live downtown now and do not have many options right now when it comes to Eating...With shopping???? I'd love to see our downtown, especially Main Street look like a mini Times Square again. Just picture it...Theme Retail, Theme Restaurants, Glittering Billboards, Street Venders, Street Entertainers (YEAR LONG), better Food Venders (Some popcorn, hot pretzels, peanuts would be nice), tables of merchandise along corners that can sell Umbrellas, Hats, scarfs, sun glasses, etc. make it busy, fun, A PLACE TO BE and not just a place to pass by as it is right now. Face it, unless it's a weekend end evening and you like party,, that is all downtown has to offer right now. The day-time is very depressing, no where to shop, not too many choices to eat, (don't even bother coming down on the weekend, because EVERYTHING is CLOSED)

And one last note- When and Where is the Security along Main Street???? Till we feel safe walking down this street again, don't even bother trying to attract new businesses or outside visitor's.

Today again, there is anticipation of great things for downtown. New development projects are announced on a monthly basis and new housing is filled as fast as it is built (getting the highest rents in the area as well). Downtown development planners still have their silver bullet projects in the works, but this time around there seems to be a difference. Today there seems to be a real and growing demand for downtown space of all kinds and development does not always depend on massive government participation. Only time will tell if this is just another dream.

Is this really true? Have we filled all loft space as quickly as it is built? Are these lofts being built without government incentives and programs? Is the growing demand a matter of going from negative to positive, or is there a true overwhelming demand for the numerous vacant offices, buildings, and storefronts in Buffalo?

Maybe the view of downtown Buffalo is better in Chicago. I see Main Street on a weekly basis and it hasn't gotten a whole lot better over the past decade, in fact it has declined quite a bit. The cops struggle to keep the homeless, beggars, and whores off Chippewa and out of the Theater district; you think it is bad now, just imagine the average suburban college kids frequenting Chippewa if their cars were burgled on a weekly basis.

I don't get these pro-Buffalo people. I mean, so what if you succeed in revitalizing some small portion of the city. Wouldn't it just be easier to like move to a nicer place? I mean, to make a dent in Buffalo's miserable situation would take decades, getting a job somewhere else could take weeks. What is so special about this city that is worth the time and effort to revitalize these dead buildings? Surely you could adapt to a new environment.

Why be pro-anywhere? Why put a vested interest in anything? Why put a value on anything but next minute? Why try to build anything of your own when you can just follow others? Why care about anything?

I really hope this is somesort of ill-sarcasm, whats not to get about these pro-buffalo people? You're obviously not from around here, granted people move because of the miserable situation but wheres your sense of loyalty. Everyone has a sense of loyalty and love to the place they grew up in? By what I've seen across the country, Buffalonians are some of the most loyal in the nation. Its no secret that this place is far from great, but it does exert great potential and possibility. Its easy to pick up and move just because things suck, but if you don't care about where you live and unwilling to make ana effort to change what you dislike, then you've going to be moving alot? MJ worthhington says it perfectly, you've going to have trouble living anywhere Gengiss.

good riddance prince b.... I'll be in Chicago for the summer but I'll be back. Leaving the HICK TOWN, thus makes you a hick, always remember once a hick always a hick?

Let's not jump to conclusions, divadisintegrator. It is entirely conceivable that doris is merely the other guy's wife/spouse and they have just found a perfect match for each other. As for Hospitable, well I guess the loyalty here is admirable, reminds me of the parents of some juvenile delinquent who think their kid has a lot of potential, if only he were given the chance. Then he goes off and mugs some old grandma for drug money. And btw I have liked other places I've lived in, most of them in fact.

Isn't it amazing that the people who hate Buffalo so much that they can't wait to move away also can't stay away from sites devoted to Buffalo?

Buffalo-Love it or leave it! Just like the good ole' USA. Seriously though, if you loathe this place so much just go. Those that have an allegiance to this "unfashionable dump" are pretty much immune to vapid criticisms as to how this is not New York, Chicago, Toronto, that's such a stale critique. Most people will always have a soft spt in their hearts for their hometown and I woudl reckon that that is how most of us feel abt bflo

Thank god they did not implode the Genesee as originally planned.who is the photographer of the 1981 shot,was it from a 3d slide? Larger cities have massive traffic problems and sprall mall burbs that go on & on forever.

Some people are not in a position to leave due to family or career issues; I personally was in a really bad spot careerwise before getting a very nice job offer, which forced me to relocate to this area. Sort of the opposite of the usual, but that's what happened. While being overly negative may be counterproductive, I do think the bubbly cheerful propaganda attitude of this website invites this kind of response. It's hard to look at this Fountain Plaza and get excited. Simply put, there's really nothing special about the place. Maybe back in 1957 your mother took you here to skate or whatever, with all the wonderful memories associated with it, but now even by Buffalo standards it's just some part of the downtown area now.

Deconstruction of the Metro Rail Transit Mall has already started. Someone with connections at city hall was given that metal tower when it was removed in front of Studio Arena. It had a great value as scrap metal. Our company inquired about it to no avail.