Buffalo Rising Online

pathetic.

I would rather see the 10 Story Hotel/Office that the other developer had planned, yeah, I read it in todays Buffalo News. Funny how the former Councel Member's development company, PITTS was chosing so fast and his plan is smaller and more suburban looking. YUCK isn't even the word.

OMG! I thought this thing could never be approved by thinking people. Is this for real?!

Completely underutilization of probably the most valuable property in the city.

What the hell BURA. Shanghai Reds was a horrendous design and now we picked the same company to do something even worse.

You can not tell me that we can't get a developer to design a better project than this.

The entire Erie Basin marina is one giant sea of parking that is NEVER fully utilized - and now we're allowing this lackluster project to pave over greenspace for another huge lot? ABSOLUTELY PATHETIC.

Couldn't we get an ALL GLASS Hotel built instead of the 1980's crap that alredy attacked most of the waterfront already.

Pitts is still the Pitts after all these unproductive years...

FAIL

I'd like to write more about this but I don't even know what more to say. I'm speechless.

I'd like to know why the 4 story suburban was choosen instead of a 10 Story Office/Hotel/Retail instead??????? Why do we settle for less in this one?????.....Oh yeah, because PITTS was involved, PUKE!!!!

Zzzzz... Another wasted opportunity on mediocrity.

But at least it will bring in some tax dollars.

WCP - Is there any public process yet to come that you are aware of for this project?

Should'nt the public get involved in this one? We should be getting the 10 Story Mix building , NOT this ugly 80's crapola.

This is pathetic, why was this the preferred option? Pitts was pathetic when he was in government, how does he have development firm???? What experience could he have in development?

This makes me so mad, even Erie has a nicer hotel on their waterfront, why can't they build something like this:

http://www.starwoodhotels.com/sheraton/property/overview/index.html?propertyID=1728

BURA Board of Directors. They should all be contacted by anyone who is pissed...

* Mayor Byron W. Brown, Chairman * Brian Reilly, Commissioner of Economic Development, Permit and Inspection Services * Drew Eszak, Director of Planning * Janet Penksa, Commissioner of Administration, Finance, Policy and Urban Affairs * Alisa Lukasiewicz, Corporation Counsel * Council President David Franczyk * Councilmember Mike LoCurto * Councilmember Mike Kearns * Virginia Oehler

The board should be shot. These politicians should be run out of town!

They rejected a proposal for a 10 story mixed use building???? For a cheektowaga hotel on our waterfront?

Whoever voted for any one of these politicians should give yourself a nice punch in the face..... we are the ones that keep voting these @ssholes in.

I've stayed at a wingate...i have nothing against them....but we have the opportunity to do something better.... and this is what our leaders choose!

300miles...no tax dollars because they are getting a 10 year exemption...this city is sad, pathetic, and unimaginative...this could be a huge project but yet again falls to the politcal trappings of a select few...F#@k these politicos

I hate to say this - but I'd support a lawsuit to block this. It looks like a very so thinly veiled attempt by Shanghai Red's to get more weddings and banquets - not a valid piece of waterfrnt development. This actually hides the waterfront further and adds more asphalt. But at least it will keep Pitts paycheck coming in, now that he's exercised his influence to secure this junk deal. I bet his take is 10-20% off the top.

Newell will have a follow-up on the heated meeting this morning.

The sale of the city-owned property will need to be approved by the Common Council. There is hope.

This is not a 'NIMBY' as was the reasoning for the blocked Elmwood Hotel (which by the way would look better here than this garbage). There should be a hotel, just not this crap, I have already written an e-mail to each member of the board, this is pathetic

This cannot be the best use for this parcel of land. No way.

Unimaginative.

sigh. crap begets crap... Shanghai reds was allowed to ignore the areas urban design plan in the past.. so this will will also. Where do you draw the line. This should be a vibrant waterfront URBAN area.. nos something reminiscent of Genesee Street in Cheektowaga... way to go guys... way... to... go...

Fail!

bhorvath, It has nothing to do with the style of the architecture. It's a failure of urban planning.

Here are the actual e-mail addresses: jPenksa@city-buffalo.com, bbrown@city-buffalo.com, aeszak@city-buffalo.com, bReilly@city-buffalo.com, aLukasiewicz@city-buffalo.com, dFranczyk@city-buffalo.com, mLoCurto@city-buffalo.com, mkearns@city-buffalo.com

I already fired off one e-mail to the whole group (although with respect to LoCurto, Kearns, and Franczyk for at least attempting to have an unbiased approval process)

Here is Brian Reilly, (Commissioner of Economic Development) email address breilly@city-buffalo.com. Perhaps a few email complaints will get his attention.

Unreal, if that project goes through they may as well just plop a friggn cheesecake factory and a super walmart down there.

I'd still like to see what the 10 story building proposed would of looked like....This crap looks like it was moved over from Amherst. If PITTS is interested in suburban design, then he should build them in the burbs NOT on PRIME DOWNTOWN LAND. Mr. Pitts, you are a moron and noone liked you when you were on the Common Councel and it's obvious we still don't like you.

Sadly, Cheesecake factory would be a tremendous upgrade to these two properties...

I'd rather see an ALL GLASS/MODERN 10 or more story building go up instead of this tiny building.

flyguy, this has nothing to do with architectural style and nobody is advocating for 1880's imitations.

I don't see how a 4 story, 100 room hotel is going to fit into the master planned Canal Harbor District. I would think that any new hotel along the waterfront would want at least 200 rooms and RETAIL Space since this area is suppost to attract more and more people once Bass Pro and other projects are completed... Right???

I would rather have the city sit on this land for years than allow this crap to be built. This would be a mockery of a city that is attempting to improve its waterfront.

Our only hope is that LoCurto and Kerns can rally up the rest of the council and get this stopped.

I wonder what the naysayers would prefer in this space? If a hotel is earmarked for this space, what should it look like? What is the current "New Urbanist" agenda in new hotel builds?

What's Next? A Wal-Mart on the waterfront????

Hey, someone stole the wingate hotel from the parking lot of my suburban St. Louis office park and moved it to the Erie Basin Marina. What gives? I wonder how many trailers that took?

This is pathetic. A stock design mid range hotel on what should be the most valuable real estate in the city. Pathetic, pathetic, pathetic.

Ok, lets take this back to what is really going on here. BURA chose what is a typical 4 story, suburban style, generic, single use project with a surface parking lot vs. a 10 story, mixed-use project with internal parking. Basically, they are just continuing the poor planning decisions that have plagued the waterfront over the past 30+ years solely because they cannot think outside the box, which is typical of Buffalo. The reason given in other news reports, that the 10 story design doesn't meet the current zoning, so instead of allowing the developer to seek a variance so that the superior project could go forward, they took the easy way out and chose a plan that in no way should ever be built on the waterfront. The worst part is, the Waterfront Village residents supported the 10 story design which is contrary to what one would believe. The blame solely rest with the Mayor's office as he controls the majority of the BURA board.

This is typical Buffalo short-sightedness. When will this town wake up and realize that it should encourage good design and urban densities and that development for the sake of development is not going to make the city successful? I am disgusted once again by the totally inept government that runs this city.

Buffalo Rising could start tracking down the architects and clients of these lame buildings and see what they have to say about their own work. Are they proud of this?

Thank you Stevan and Jbrennan.

Awful, just awful.

I thought that this community was pretty clear with wanting urban, mixed-use development on our waterfront. What happened BURA?

bhorvath,

Have you ever been to Pittsburgh or Rochester? Neither of these places have thriving economies but they sure as hell have good design and planning. And, apparently there was a market to do something better because Ciminelli proposed a better project, and well being one of the larger developers in town, I would think that they may have a clue what the demand may be.

Rinky meets dinky. Clearly it is time to crack open the heads of our neighbors and feast on the goo inside. Seriously, this proposal has to be tossed. Is their a height restriction? Is that why the other project lost?

no, they're stupid, trust me.

Project potential= FAIL

yes, it is good that downtown is getting another hotel option however this project reeks of suburban mediocrity. And it seems kind of suspicious that BURA wouldn't even hear the Ciminelli proposal which sounds much more attractive by comparison to me as a Planning student.

http://buffalo.bizjournals.com/buffalo/stories/2008/12/01/daily43.html

I guess there was a height restriction which disqualified the Cimminelli tower:

"The problem, according to Buffalo Mayor Byron Brown, is that height restrictions for parcel limit any development to a maximum of four stories. Brown said both development teams were aware of the restriction, although Ciminelli had hoped for a variance.

Amending the height restrictions would have taken another year of public hearings and reviews, added Brian Reilly, Buffalo’s development chief.

However, Gail Edwards, Ciminelli chief administrative officer, said her company was never informed that the restrictions would be a deal breaker."

You would think that the only height restriction here would be that you could not build a one story single use restaurant. But I guess not

We are only stuck with this one because it involves PITTS. Just because he's not head of the Common Councel anymore doesn't mean he's still not connected with the local goverment at City Hall. ....So we are most likely stuck with this eyesore.

If time is so valuable why did it take them a YEAR to choose a proposal? Does Brian Reilly realize the stupidity of his statement? We get this peice of shit for the next fifty years OR spend one more year and get a project that works in this context for the next 100 years...

How about just plan for better projects - rezone everything down there now instead of waiting for developer proposals that don't work because you don't want to waste another year - on top of the decades already wasted. Really what does it matter?

This is not architecture at all, it looks like it came from a 1980's pattern book for hotels located at suburban highway interchanges.

I rarely act upon my urges to pan another architects work, but this is where I draw the line. How can anyone say with a straight face that this Highway Clone Hotel fits on our waterfront? It is an abomination and must be redesigned from the ground up. I guess the developers thought they could just sky-crane one of the Genesee Airport Hotels down to the waterfront and call it a day............not likely. Let's see some real architectural prowess here......solve the problem and put the right building on this property!

Wow! spare no expense, that looks like top quality authentic dryvit on the exterior. Good to see an innovative and creative use of this material.

shouldn't one of the mainstream media outlets give a flying F that such a POS was ok'd for the utterly transparent reason that PITTS was the one making the proposal?

There's no TV News Producer or Buffalo News Journalist who wants to make some hay out of this? Doesn't anybody give a damn anymore? It doesn't even pass a smell test, this decision is garbage on its very face!

Somebody write a letter to the editor! If they're not gonig to cover it, we should

From Buffalo News' website:

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Bhorvath, I just sent emails to WGRZ and WIVB's investigative journalist...they better not come out in favor of this crapola

Buffalo Urban Renewal Agency Real Estate John Hannon, Director Address - 901 City Hall, Buffalo NY 14202 Phone: (716) 851-5275 ♦ Fax: (716) 851-5590 Email: jhannon@city-buffalo.com

Ditto what most everybody else here said.

A small interstate highway exit-style hotel on prime waterfront land, with a site plan that was pretty much a cut-and-paste from a similar project that was probably next to some Cracker Barrel in Arkansas. This is so small-town. I'm not talking Erie or Racine, but like something one might find in Ashtabula, Painesville, Geneva or Dunkirk.

Seriously, what next? A Flying J or TA at Aggasiz Circle? A KOA off the Kensington at Grider?

So small town. A minor league city project. I hope that's not an indicator of Buffalo's current stature. Put this in some Interstate convergence truck stop town like Breezewood, Pennsylvania or Mt. Vernon, Illinois where it belongs.

I don't care about the architecture debate, but other things are bad about this.

- BURA's vote 5 to 3 (as reported by the Buffalo News today here) against allowing to a full public presentation of Ciminelli's proposal sounds very shady. Are Mr. Reilly and Ms. Penska on the BURA board mainly to do the best possible job for the public, or mainly to follow orders? What reason can there be for not allowing both full presentations? Those two could've swung that vote to 5-3 in favor.

- I don't think either proposal deserves the tax breaks that Assaroni says are being offered. It's bad enough that taxpayers are already handing over public cash to the Hyatt. Some other hotels don't get any handouts or breaks. There shouldn't be any tax breaks or handouts ever for hotels, retail, or residential. That list would grow if I thought about it more.

- The height issue sounds incompetent, shady, or both. Incompetent to not tell Ciminelli in writing at the beginning that tallness is a disqualifier and let them waste time developing a proposal to be instantly rejected. Or shady if not telling them was to set up a reason to reject them. I agree with nyc's comment that Reilly's quote about a year delay to change the height limit makes no sense. That's at least two strikes against Reilly on this - first for voting against listening to Ciminelli's presentation, second for saying the year delay was a real reason. It's crazy that it should even take a year for a height variance, but even if true it shouldn't be a deciding factor.

The council should vote to reject BURA's decision, cancel any tax breaks, set a height limit fair and square for everyone (better yet, no height limit), and open up to proposals all over again.

The tax break thing is out of control. Time to level the playing field and end all TAXPAYER subsidies for business. Prime waterfront land should attract developement that can pay their own way and their fair share. Atwater, add IDA's to your list of handouts that we must stop.

This is absoutly criminal. Ciminelli's design sounded perfect for this particular location. Shangihi Reds would be better off with the Hilton Gardens. That hotel would bring in more money and more people. Mayor Brown is going to have some difficult questions to answer about this location and what is being proposed.

I really hope something is done about this, this is an outrage to one unbelievably valuable location which is going to gain more value. Canalside, a 500 million dollar development, is being proposed just a quarter mille from that parking lot starts and is commencing construction this summer. I hope channel 2 on your side contacts ciminelli to still find out their view and if they are still interested in showing their plan to the rest of WNY.

105 posts in 6 hours, is this a record? Where to start - Is this Pitts' 1st project big? Hopefully we can create him a new city job on the planning board, obviously he has tremendous vision. I never thought I would be jealous of Erie PA's waterfront...this is hysterical. Zoning is a problem here? Take a look at the other buildings. Build a hotel to save a shitty restaurant. Great plan. These guys should consult the auto industry on how to get back on track. I seriously hope this didn't get the green light just because we need more hotel space downtown for the WJC hockey tournament in 2011. I've been gone for almost 5 yrs & just got back. When I came back, I could see little improvements happening that gave me some hope about this place rebounding. Then i see this $hi! & get disheartened...the powers that be can't get anything right. The BOA plans in south buffalo looked promising but they all called for boulevards. How can that happen if Rt 5 just got rebuilt? And it's said because too many ppl are on diff't agendes. If the city doesn't have a master plan, but they're green lighting projects now in the hopes of tying it together, please tell us. Atleast it'll make sense when I see projects like this.

if this is the direction of the waterfront, then i can only say i got out in time, this type of planning will put buffalo another 30 years behind the times.

I just emailed the Mayor and I encourage all BRO readers to follow. Change won't happen if city hall doesn't hear your outrage!

BTW he could've built a Microtel for probably half the cost fully equipped with cozy rooms, indoor pool, small fitness room, and continental breakfast

The city has some very well thought out and award winning plans... the problem is the government doesn't care and doesn't listen to their own planners. The plan says go with the urban, zero-lot line, mixed use proposal. The plan, supported and passed by the council and bound to the comprehensive plan.. says to NOT build this crapitecture here. But leave it up to politicians and the 'not my idea, i don't care' Brown administration for not following through on any important issues.

I am not sure which is more boring, the building or this thread... all I see is "horrible suburban mediocrity" and a lot of reactionary comments, nothing really constructive or worthwhile.

allfit- For those with an appreciation of architecture and an understanding of what makes for a successful city there is genuine fear (for good reason) of "horrible suburban mediocrity".

Why do council members who are elected by the public vote one way and puppets appointed by Mayor Urkel vote like they have strings attached to their thought process? I can't wait for next years election.

Four or five years ago, before the Schaeffer brewery building was torn down I climbed to the top and marveled at the million dollar view to the west. Only in Buffalo could that go undiscovered. Maybe the Mayor who has his office on the second floor is scared of heights. Probably not only in Buffalo, but more often than not, the political deal trumps common sense and good business.

If this gets built Buffalo's waterfront has jumped the shark. Ridiculously brazen display of clout.

this proposal is disgusting...please please please let the Ciminelli plan get approved.

We can not let this awful suburbs looking hotel be built....Ciminelli's project will allow people to actually see the lake, main reason to put a hotel on the water....What do we need to do, petition, sue? It is one embarrassing mistake after another and Mayor Brown needs his head examined...

The Ciminelli hotel will be a destination hotel, a hotel people will make a point to reserve, the other will be a comfort INN looking disaster that will take away from a nice resurging waterfront....

We can not let this awful suburbs looking hotel be built....Ciminelli's project will allow people to actually see the lake, main reason to put a hotel on the water....What do we need to do, petition, sue? It is one embarrassing mistake after another and Mayor Brown needs his head examined...

The Ciminelli hotel will be a destination hotel, a hotel people will make a point to reserve, the other will be a comfort INN looking disaster that will take away from a nice resurging waterfront....

O.K. folks…. I got some facts on this height issue with a little digging. At least I think I understand it!!

1) The waterfront RFP states that the respondents must follow a document called NY R 35. Google it. “The project area is a Community Business District”. As listed in NY R-35, section C.2.b on page 10 and 11 lists the height limitations to be three stories or 40 feet.

SO, neither project is in compliance. But BURA (run by our mayor) decided to toss out one project out over the other using this reason? Interesting! Someone's playing with a stacked deck........

2) Throughout NY R-35 there are items listed as “other provisions” and “exceptions” in a number of places. In these sections statements are such that “The City of Buffalo Urban Renewal Agency and the City Planning Board may approve variations from and exceptions to any of the requirements on the basis of special development plans….

It sounds like BURA could change the restrictions (if they wanted to) without much effort at all! It doesn’t sound like a re-zoning or an act of Congress!

What happens when the Common Council sinks this? Does BURA then have to give the project to Ciminelli or do they rewrite the RFP and wait another 2 years? Ridiculous!