Buffalo Rising Online

wow

actually a pretty good and well rounded article about Buffalo. Well done Newell and everyone who showed him the city's good with the bad.

... as in (seriously), the best article I've ever seen about Buffalo

I didn't think the art funding and emphasis was actually intentional other than some blueblood being bored with the arts in Buffalo. But based on this article the city gov't and planners believe that bringing starving artists to Buffalo will create a revival. It worked in Boston because Boston doesn't rely on the arts. This whole plan is idiotic which may in the end cause a further decay.

Buffalo should promote its biggest but overlooked resource. Fresh water. Atlanta almost ran out of fresh water last year.

Bufago, I hope you are right.

I too am someone looking to take on a new life in the city of buffalo. I like this idea... but I think what you need is an article that compares the different sections of the city of Buffalo for new comers. Why would someone want to live in the Elmwood strip area as opposed to Kaisertown or Chippawe? What kinda of personalities/age group thrieves in certain parts of the city as opposed to others?

Adding up the material differences such as housing prices and cost of living are easy, but what intangibles does the city offer that other places don't have. I think this is what BuffaloRising is all about.

The best article I've ever read on Buffalo. It's funny too, because I just spent some time in NYC and was thinking how much of a struggle it would be "just to live in NYC." Here in Buffalo, you actually get to live life!!!

Bufago might be on the something. I recently completed a full renovation of my house on Lancaster Ave, didn't have it for sale but was approached by a realtor who had a family moving to Buffalo looking in the Elmwood Village. I didn't really think about selling but thought why not hear what they have to say. I was astounded when the realtor contacted me after the visit with the news that the family wanted to make an offer and it was close to $400,000. I'm not ready to move yet, especially after suffering a long renovation, but the offer, which I didn't pursue further to see where they might have finally ended up made me really think about what's happening in this city.

^^ lancaster is a great streat

I was nice to see such positive comments on that sites blog thing.

This is a great article but I am with BuckyGoldStein on one point, I am sceptical about this idea of the creative class as a driver of economic growth. We need to attract the entrepreneurs that pay the creative class.

nice point on number 4.

I recalled growing up that the way we were developing the region that there was zero chance of the "ghetto" not working its way into the burbs. Its an endless cycle that a majority of the residents of erie county perpetuate and was not an issue with just "Buffalo" as everyone tried making it our to be. At least as it grows outward there are less and less "notable" structures that will be lost ;)

I moved back to Buffalo by choice after living in Chicago. I only left Buffalo for college and ended up staying in Chicago another two years after graduation for work. But I was chomping at the bit to get home. Now that I'm here, I'll never leave. Only when one lives in a bigger city can one realize Buffalo's benefits: short commute to everything, access to Canada, fantastic art and theatre community, great restaurants, superb sports fans, caring citizens, fun festivals, extremely affordable housing... the list goes on and on.

Yes, of course there are negatives. Don't get me started on the schools, poverty, the NIMBYs and whiners who try to stop any project from happening, and the high taxes... BUT, I look at it this way: All things considered, Buffalo's doing pretty well for a smaller city. And it's got no where to go but up. Would anyone have thought about 30 years ago that places like Austin, Baltimore, Charlotte, Portland, and San Antonio would become hot destinations to live? With careful planning, the right development, and jobs, Buffalo can be "it." I think it's tough for anyone to argue with the GOOD things our region offers... which, in some cases, are things you won't find anywhere else. For me, personally, I love being here. I don't look at this area as lacking opportunities... I look at it as "many more opportunities just waiting to happen." And for that, I'm ready to enjoy the ride.

Plenty more exciting years ahead for the area. Be proud of where you are.

Exactly Wizard - I've pretty much been relegated to looking west of Richmond for housing. If I could afford it, I'd probably buy a house in the EV. But the prices have driven me west and gotten me really excited about purchasing a cottage or a double dirt cheap and doing some major renovation. By the looks of Little Summer, Union, Jersey, 16th, Livingston, etc... There are plenty of other people doing it too.

Black Rock is really starting to peak my interest as well...

I moved back to Buffalo by choice after living in Chicago. I only left Buffalo for college and ended up staying in Chicago another two years after graduation for work. But I was chomping at the bit to get home. Now that I'm here, I'll never leave. Only when one lives in a bigger city can one realize Buffalo's benefits: short commute to everything, access to Canada, fantastic art and theatre community, great restaurants, superb sports fans, caring citizens, fun festivals, extremely affordable housing... the list goes on and on.

Yes, of course there are negatives. Don't get me started on the schools, poverty, the NIMBYs and whiners who try to stop any project from happening, and the high taxes... BUT, I look at it this way: All things considered, Buffalo's doing pretty well for a smaller city. And it's got no where to go but up. Would anyone have thought about 30 years ago that places like Austin, Baltimore, Charlotte, Portland, and San Antonio would become hot destinations to live? With careful planning, the right development, and jobs, Buffalo can be "it." I think it's tough for anyone to argue with the GOOD things our region offers... which, in some cases, are things you won't find anywhere else. For me, personally, I love being here. I don't look at this area as lacking opportunities... I look at it as "many more opportunities just waiting to happen." And for that, I'm ready to enjoy the ride.

Plenty more exciting years ahead for the area. Be proud of where you are.

I must second the sentiment from MJ, Balth et all. Poverty is not something we should simply run away from. Since when it is morally ok to ignore the poor and needy. Somehow we feel it is our duty as a country to send millions of dollars of aid to those who stave over seas but feel find when we move away from that poor family down the street.. with a "there goes the neighborhood" mentality. If we want to live up to what our country truly can and should be we should take personal responsibility for these problems and stop looking at those that run away as somehow good moral people. It is a little outlandish to think that but the truth is the flight of people and role models, lead to the flight of jobs and investment and those left behind people with little to no access to place where jobs and opportunities lie. We created separate doughnut shaped cities in America.

Also that doughnut has been getting bigger and bigger for decades now and is certainly spilling into many, if not all the first ring suburbs. You hear people talk about good and bad Cheetowaga and Harlem being the new line in the sand. Tonawanda and West Seneca are loosing population and facing vacant housing units like what the city had to deal with 25 years ago.

This is a good thing in my opinion. I can't wait until areas of Amherst finally succumb to the slum.. Already starting in parts of Eggertsville only because It will finally and hopefully force people to realize this isn't and never was just a city \ Buffalo issue and to continue to run away is selfish and detrimental to the community you are leaving behind.

HoopGirl50,

I am sorry you've had such a bad experience at CIty Hall--that's something no one should have to go through. That said, I've found Buffalo to be quite the opposite: welcoming, tolerant and open-minded in the 20 years I have been here. My partner and I have never seen a moment of intolerance. There are stupid people eveywhere: in Buffalo, in NYC and in Portland. I am sorry that you've had to deal with some of them.

I can't imagine living somewhere else, and I am glad to see that other people are finally recognizing Buffalo's long overlooked qualities.

Good, balanced article.

There seems to be a popular perception outside of the region that economic decline and suburban flight have left Buffalo in the same state as Detroit, East St. Louis, Gary, Camden and other infamous cities that have been overtaken by blight. Yes, Buffalo has its problem areas, but how can we spread the word to prospective residents that it's a livable and relatively safe place with healthy pedestrian-oriented neighborhoods; admittedly rough around the edges, but far from the state of a Detroit or Flint? Most intelligent people can see through CVB/Chamber of Commerce-style promotion of any city, and the "honest, authentic and real" cliche of boosters.

I'm not exactly a blind booster, but I think there's got to be something more behind the stats that Buffalo is the second poorest city in the country. If you've been to Detroit, you'll notice that Buffalo is much better off, generally speaking.

Buffalo city proper never really had a huge middle class, in the conventional sense. Back in the good 'ol days, many considered Kensington, Schiller Park, Riverside, Delavan-Bailey and similar neighborhoods "middle class", but in reality they were less well-off compared to the region's middle class suburbs, and other outlying neighborhoods in other medium-sized cities. When I grew up in Kensington, there were many young families that would buy their first house in the neighborhood, wait until they earned enough money, and them move up to Tonawanda, Eggertsville, or Cleveland Hill. Those that stayed for years tended to be lower-than-average paid professionals and service workers, some blue-collar workers, and senior citizens. Buffalo's bungalow belt was stable and healthy until recent years, but it was never "middle class" in the same way as a Tonawanda or West Seneca-like suburb.

Buffalo always a large working-class population; people that can't be considered poor, but still those for whom the suburban dream is out of reach. I think the large working-class population of Buffalo drives down the median income of the city as a whole, compared to similarly sized cities. By comparison, a much larger portion of Detroit may be a wasteland, but there's still a sizable (black) middle-class in the city limits. At its peak, Detroit was far more of a middle-class city than Buffalo.

Basically, Buffalo might have the same percentage of poor people as similar cities, but the larger percentage of working-class households drives the median income down, making it appear that Buffalo is overrun by poverty. I don't want to dismiss the seriousness of poverty -- of course, it's a problem -- but the numbers make it look like Buffalo as a whole is almost as bad as Detroit, and the reality isn't the case.

HoopGirl50,

I feel badly for what you and others have had to endure, and I hope you find happiness in Portland. I don't think, however, the hostility you faced is unique to Buffalo; I'm afraid it could happen anywhere.

I've lived in NYC, Toronto, and Paris. The people are basically the same as in Buffalo, except that overall I find Buffalonians more genial and warm. I just hope you won't condemn the entire city for what happened to you. But I completely agree that transgender attitudes are quite backwards in America as a whole, and I am sure you will do much to help change that. Good luck.

sbrof, gold medal for most nonsensical, divisive post.

benfranklin- Why is sbrof "nonsensical and divisive" when he challenges the dominant attitude of "not my problem" by most outside the city. Lip service is given to a regional outlook but few seem willing to admit that racism and the segregation of the poor has been the main reason for the growth of suburbia.

Christa,

I like the spirt of your response to HoopGirl, but I have to disagree strenuously with your blanket assertion that Buffalo as a whole shows a "tremendous lack of respect" to people who are different. That's a rather damning generalization. Where is the proof of this "tremendous" disregard, and how is it so vastly different from other medium-sized cities with long, complex ethnic and racial tensions? Have you been to Boston lately?

Of course the mega-cities have more diversity, but I don't think that always translates into tolerance and understanding. NYC is a rigidly segregated city economically, and when I lived there I was stunned at the xenophobia and homophobia that could flare up outside thin strips of Manhattan or Brooklyn. These prejudices exist everywhere in this country, and I think we fool ourselves into a dangerous laziness if we believe there are places where they vanish. Look at Portland--a small fortress of laissez-faire living in an arch conservative rural state. No thanks.

Contrary to facile stereotypes, I've found people of every class and economic rung in Buffalo to be refreshingly easygoing--I am just very sorry that HoopGirl hasn't. Yes, you're right we need to champion respect for all people, but that includes abstaining from sweeping characterizations of an entire community.

Dan has it right in terms of Buffalo's historic population. The vernacular doubles and bungalows are a testament to that. I don't know how many people have noticed the varied definitions of "middle class" that have been bantied about in this forum over the years. Not to inspire a debate here, but I contend that most Americans consider themselves to be included in this vast designation because it is just so American so to speak. It's inclusive extending to any one who has a steady job. So, I like the differentiation.

Off but on topic in this instance, I wouldn't know what to tell Hoopgirl50. In as much as the changes in Buffalo reflect patterns in similar cities, the treatment she has received is also a pattern repeated elsewhere. I am familiar with her story and it is a compelling one. I know so little about the issue, but that's the point. Perhaps she could consider using her candor to stay put and work toward enlightening the population nation wide. If there is a movement to do so, I haven't heard about it.

Angus- You right about NYC and Buffalo will eventually thrive, not just because of simple economics and limited resources but because humans crave the interaction and stimulation that only cities can provide.

Dan - No, the 2nd-poorest ranking isn't based on median income as your last paragraph suggests. It's based on percent of residents who have annual income below the Census Bureau's definition of poverty. Buffalo in 2006 had 29.9% residents below the poverty level. Among municipalities over 250,000 that was 2nd only to Detroit's 35.2%. Page 31, here - http://www.census.gov/prod/2007pubs/acs-08.pdf

Balth - I agree with your observations about the worsening problems in 'University, Riverside, Black Rock, Kaisertown, and Lovejoy' (and some other neighborhoods could be added), but I don't quite get what you mean by the city government should 'step in soon'. What exactly are you saying City Hall should do - practically and realistically?

Atwater- City hall probably can't do anything as long as Buffalo is a warehouse for all of the regions poor. Only a true regional government could affect change by forcing ALL citizens to face the consequences resulting from decades of class division. Change will only occur when the once "safe" suburbs start to feel the pain Buffalo has dealt with for years.

Sbrof wrote: This is a good thing in my opinion. I can't wait until areas of Amherst finally succumb to the slum.. Already starting in parts of Eggertsville only because It will finally and hopefully force people to realize this isn't and never was just a city \ Buffalo issue and to continue to run away is selfish and detrimental to the community you are leaving behind.

This is one of the most ignorant comments that I have read. This puts to rest any doubt that you hold significant resentment against the suburbs, you are not about regionalism, you are not about parity, you are about getting back at the suburbs in some vengeful manner. Instead of addressing the issue of poverty, crime, and ghetto conditions, you only wish to see it spread to the suburbs with the hope that the hollow shell of a city that is left behind will someday be the place of choice for the displaced suburbanites.

You are happy about the decimation of more neighborhoods? You are happy to watch the tax base of more areas crumble and the vacancy rates of houses to increase only because they are on the other side of the city line?

I have lost all respect for you as a planner or architect. You are no better than anyone in the suburbs who shuts their eyes and ears to the plight of the city. I am disgusted by your comments and what they reveal about you.

allfit- save your righteous rage- sbrof is only pointing out the uncomfortable truth that until there is pain nothing will change.

Blackrocklifer - The growth of suburbia is partially due to the affluence of Americans. People tend to move to the best place that they can afford, one that they feel is safest for their family and offers the best sense of community. People often move to a better neighborhood because it is just that, a better neighborhood. A place with less crime, higher property values, better schools, nicer neighbors, and more affluence. Few people move backwards from neighborhoods with higher property values and better services to one with lower values, more crime, and questionable schools. Yes, this tends to leave those without means behind in the neighborhoods, take a look at the East Side as a prime example. The people left behind are typically there because they do not have the means or desire to move elsewhere, but those who do have means tend to move up the ladder a rung. People moved from the deep east side to university heights for this reason, and we have seen what has happened to those neighborhoods, so people with means in those neighborhoods have moved to the first ring suburbs, leaving more vacancies for more people from the East Side to move. The problems of poverty and crime (directly related) have not gone away, they have just been shuffled to a different neighborhood. The same can be said of neighborhoods on the West Side.

This continues as people try to stay one step ahead of the crime and decline of their neighborhood. They sell houses before property values decline, or rent them out if they are too late. This continues to perpetuate the problem. Meanwhile, the vacancies in the neighborhoods where people are moving from continue to escalate, property values in these neighborhoods bottom out and the entire area suffers. It takes a deliberate gentrification effort to reverse the trend, and that typically happens only after the neighborhoods are beyond hope for repair. Again, take a look at the deep East Side and West Side as examples. We have to create programs to build houses in the Sycamore area, because without government intervention and aide, this area would continue to decline to the point of having almost no value.

Ask people along Windemere, Capen, and Allenhurst, Montrose, University, and Calodine why they are selling or have sold their houses in the past five years. The poverty from the East Side is creeping into these neighborhoods and is bringing the negative impact along with it. Property values have declined, not because of a particular race, but because of the poverty. People do not want to live next door to section 8 renters, hard working people do not want to live next door to welfare recipients, they do not want their children playing with children whose parents live off the state. They do not want to see their paychecks dwindle to support their poor neighbors while they watch the same neighbors work off the books, sell drugs, or fence stolen goods for money that doesn't count against their check. No one wants to live next door to this, even the poor.

Blame racism if you must, but it is really poverty and the American caste system that perpetuates the problem. I am confident that someday people will decide to rebuild the East and West Sides of Buffalo as an escape from the poor who are typically a few steps behind, and then the cycle will start all over again.

The uncomfortable truth is that people in the city don't want the poor and want to push their problems off to the suburbs. It seems like the people leaving the suburbs for North Carolina and Arizona have left openings for the wealthiest of the poor to move in. Seems to me that Blackrocklifer is happy that he doesn't have to deal with them in his neighborhood anymore.

It is sad that Buffalo's Rising will come at the expense of the rest of the area. You are seeking a hollow victory if it attained by selling out your neighbors. I have read so many comments that perpetuate the victim mentality of the city, so many comments that blame the suburbs for all shortcomings of the city. It is like listening to the ex-high school football star who could have made it if only... and then blames the coach for starting someone else in front of him. This type of resentment is unproductive and won't make the situation any better. The victim mentality is one of the things that cripples the city, it holds us all back.

BTW, the doughnut that SBROF refers to will stay hollow in the middle even though it is expanding on the edges. Why do you think that is?

Blackrocklifer - The West Side has experienced pain for quite a long time, what has changed?

your comment: sbrof is only pointing out the uncomfortable truth that until there is pain nothing will change.

allfit is a voice of reason. The idea of some that 'spreading pain' will accomplish anything positive is ridiculous. It's like saying spreading disease will make the world healthier. Just bizarre.

Heather mentioning Amherst PD reminds me the Buffalo News reported over the weekend that Pittsburgh and Amherst both investigate burglaries much more than the Buffalo PD does, and they solve around double the percent of cases than Buffalo. That's something City Hall could work on to improve quality of life in all neighborhoods - have the police commit to more serious investigations of crimes like burglary. If Amherst and Pittsburgh can regularly take fingerprints at those kinds of crime scenes, why shouldn't Buffalo?

'Victims lose in game of cops and robbers Some burglary victims say police don’t care about investigations By James Heaney NEWS STAFF REPORTER Updated: 08/24/08

Rios and Ferguson moved out of their flat on Minnesota three days after the robbery. They remain upset about both the robbery and the police response. ...'

full article here - http://www.buffalonews.com/home/story/421876.html

sorry guys 300k-400k to live in the Elmwood Village with 10-14k/yr in taxes is a little steep for houses built in 1890.

No matter what, these houses are all money pits. I believe the real estate market in Buffalo is way ahead of itself, especially on the waterfront.

It will correct like the rest of the country, its always does.

The seven signs of an inferiority complex are:

Sensitivity to Criticism: Although people who feel inferior “know” they have shortcomings, they do not like other people to point this out. They tend to perceive any form of criticism, regardless of how sensitively or constructively it is presented, as a personal attack.

Hypercritical Attitude: People who do not feel good about themselves have trouble feeling good about anyone else. They look hard for flaws and shortcomings of others to try to convince themselves that they really aren’t so bad after all. These people cannot feel intelligent, attractive, competent, etc., unless they are the most intelligent, attractive and competent person around.

Tendency Toward Blaming: Some people project their perceived weaknesses onto others in order to lessen the pain of feeling inferior. From here, it is only a short step to blaming others for one’s failures.

Negative Feelings About Competition: People who feel inferior like to win games and contests every bit as anyone else, but they tend to avoid such situations because deep down, they believe they cannot win. And not coming in first is clear evidence of total failure.

Tendency Toward Seclusiveness And Timidity: Because people with an inferiority complex believe that they are not as interesting or intelligent as others, they believe that other people will feel the same way about them. So they tend to avoid social situations, and when they are forced to be with others, they will avoid speaking up because they believe doing so will only provide an embarrassing demonstration of their dullness and stupidity.

Inappropriate Response To Flattery: Some people are desperate to hear anything good about themselves and will be constantly fishing for compliments. Others may refuse to listen to anything positive about themselves because it is inconsistent with their own feelings.

Sounds applicable to a lot of the conversations about Buffalo and the Suburbs, especially comments offered by BALTH, SBROF, BUFFALOWEINER, and BLACKROCKLIFER. Let's focus on increasing the esteem and image of the City of Buffalo and residents of the city, instead of attacking the suburbs for our own shortcomings and feelings of insecurity. I am willing to bet that this approach will be far more productive than being oversensitive and hypercritical to any negative comment about the city or positive comment about the suburbs.

I attended a dinner party at a co-workers house this past Sunday where I participated in a discussion on the future plans of the host's daughter. She just graduated with her Master's degree in Secondary Education and took a job with the Fairfax County Public Schools, in Fairfax, Virginia (a suburb of Washington, DC). Her mother was explaining that her plans were to stay in the job for 5 - 7 years and then return to Buffalo to take a job teaching in either Williamsville, Iroquois, Clarence, or Sweethome schools. She will come in as a Step 5 or 7, earn a good salary, and receive 5 years credit towards the NYS Teacher's Pension (apparently one of the best in the Country). Her mother has dreams for her daughter to remain in this State Pension system long enough to enable her to move away again but still collect from the state. I believe that they quoted 20 years of total service (that includes the 5 years outside the state).

The general conversation continued with many people explaining how they were planning on leaving NY as soon as they retired, they even discussed which states allowed for concurrent employment without jeopardizing their NYS benefits. A friend of mine, who works for the State Thruway Authority, already has a full military pension (he's 48), and will supplement his military pension with a State Employee pension at 53 (based on credit for military service). He and his wife (a teacher who will collect her NY Teacher's pension) are actively looking for a retirement house in Florida because their retirement will not be taxed as income.

I always knew that there were perks to working in public service in NY, but never knew that there was an entire game involved. I wonder if anyone has ever done a study on the number of retirees leaving NY while collecting from the NYS retirement systems. I honestly felt like the odd man out for working in a private sector job and depending on my 401k, investments, and employer provided pension and ESPP programs for my retirement. I feel like I should guide more people to work for the State for the sole purpose of receiving the retirement benefits.

allfit----Thank you for the diagnosis------DISAGREE WITH ALLFIT=INFERIORITY COMPLEX.

Blackrocklifer - Try reading the comments with an open mind and you might see how your comments reflect the signs listed above, especially when you get on your "Buffalo is a victim of the suburbs" soapbox.

Read my comments and you might understand why I feel that you have some of the symptoms of an inferiority complex. Alternatively, you can remain deflective and defensive, that is your choice and your issue.

I didn't want my comment to come off as negative. I was trying to highlight the fact that the exodus from Buffalo is sometimes caused by forces that our outside our control. Forces like favorable retirement systems coupled with unfavorable tax laws for retirees.

I thought about the conversation after reading Skarnath's comment about the exodus from Buffalo being to the suburbs not to the sunbelt. I believe that this is true in many cases, but the retirement concerns may be part of the decision process for people who permanently leave WNY.

I checked with some people at work today and they believe that the advice given to my friend's daughter and the retirement advice is sound. One co-worker explained that many area school districts refrain from hiring Buffalo State graduates straight out of school; however they hire them on the spot after they have worked in an area outside of WNY. My mother and my wife's friend also said that they have heard the same thing about the suburban schools.

Does anyone know if this is true?

Some one needs to check these statements about public employees and their retirements for validity rather than hyperbole.

People leave Buffalo because the climate around here sucks!

When I was in Buffalo last month, I just felt so out of place and very uncomfortable. I'm an openly gay male who actually felt ashamed of what I was when in town. I was actually thinking of moving back untill being yelled at by complete strangers along the Pedestrian Mall "Fag" by several different people who were'nt even near each other. If this is the type of treatment one has to endure, why would anyone who is "different" want to move or stay in Buffalo? Even long time friends who still live in Buffalo tried telling me, it's me, "your too open" and "This is Buffalo" "it's not NYC". ....So, I moved back to NYC where I have never been harrased , felt uncomfortable or ashamed for being "Me". I totally agree with Hoopgirl50 that Buffalo is like a time-warp and behind the times and will not grown untill it's locals are more accepting towards people who are different rather than pushing them away (out of town).

Of course its hard to get a teaching job in Buffalo, its the prefered route of education for many local college students. At least 5 of my friends are teachers (I'm 26) and more are on the way. I respect the profession, my mother was a teacher for 30 years, but its simple supply and demand. There's too many teachers and a falling population. Teachers are needed in other locations, but there is not demand in Buffalo. We need more college students being educated in careers that will lead to private sector development, maybe then more would have the ability to stay in Buffalo.

"I would retire first. It's the most hectic, nerve-racking city. Imagine having to take the [Number] 7 train to the ballpark, looking like you're [riding through] Beirut next to some kid with purple hair next to some queer with AIDS right next to some dude who just got out of jail for the fourth time right next to some 20-year-old mom with four kids. It's depressing." - John Rocker

That's right I'm Gay, and I will continue to remind you all for as long as I need too. And just like HoopGirl50 mentioned, I too was told by a few people (including Queenseyes) that I should stay, deal with it and try to enlighting the locals. I don't see the point in living in a place that is not so friendly as it advertises, makes me feel very uncomfortable to go anywhere (especially downtown) and to enlighting people???? I know it takes a few strong people to make a change, but I put up with it long enough and prefere to live my life elsewhere so I can be myself, not walk outside in fear of the shouts and glares. No thank you.

I resent the sterotype you already have on me, heather. I never been or ever plan on going to a bathhouse, I don't dress like a whore or hang with those types of guys, or dress freaky. I'll admit I do have a shake in my walk, but that's natural, always had that and my qualities are in no way "asking for attention". I'm just obvious. But that still is not a good enough reason for people to judge and shout ignorant words at me.

I never said I want it to happen.. but the facts are it IS happening and I only hope that it rouses the souls of those outside of the city to work together with the city to stop it.. I hate to see more neighborhoods collapse but the status quo.. of it only being a city problem has shown for 40 years now that NO ONE outside the city will help the city unless they somehow feel threatened.

Do I wish that we could as a region step up together NOW and stop it right where it is.. I would LOVE that to happen. It is my ideal.. Do i see it happening... nope. Because why now after 40 years would someone in Amherst care what happens to another neighborhood in the city? They wont. But seeing it spread outside of the city.. might just light a fire under someones ass to actually get some real positive changes happen.

But that is in and of itself too much to ask because I am sure people will just continue to spread out and run away from the ghetto.

"So the cop made them go home, and he drove me home, and he confiscated their club and my rock as further evidence. And I thought, so this is Oregon, huh? Tolerent Oregon?"

hey hoopgirl50, that was from the classic jello biafra rant "night of the living rednecks"...i thought someone as interested in underground subcultures as you would be down with the dead kennedys!

"I never said I want it to happen.."

sbrof - Maybe you never said it, but you wrote it in your comment at 14:53:

"Tonawanda and West Seneca are loosing population and facing vacant housing units like what the city had to deal with 25 years ago. This is a good thing in my opinion. I can't wait until areas of Amherst finally succumb to the slum.. Already starting in parts of Eggertsville "

Balth wrote something similar at 13:55.

Hopes and wants aside, I wonder what specifically anyone imagines would be good for the WNY area if Amherst eventually joins many parts of Buffalo in decline with growing slums. If might happen some day if the area keeps stagnating as a whole, but what exactly do people imagine would be good about it? Do they think Amherst voters will... what? Become more like Buffalo voters? Ok, that might happen but how would that be good for WNY? Do they think Amherst schools would decline to be closer to the BPS system? That's not impossible, but how would that be good? Do they think the Amherst police and courts would become softer on crime like Buffalo's PD and courts are? What's being hoped for?

Wouldn't it be better to want more parts of Buffalo to become less poverty stricken than to want Amherst to become the opposite?

The only reason that I said was because I don't think there is any other way to get Amherst to the table and actually care about the future of Buffalo until there is something negative starts to happen there as well. 40 years or them saying "it is your problem.. not mine" means that there has been no regional approach to fighting poverty and the spread of ghettos.

So while i don't want it to happen, I do feel that it could lead to a larger regional discussion about this problem... and that is a good thing.

Sbrof - From your previous comments, it sounds to me like you have major contempt for places like Amherst. What would bring you to the table to understand their specific needs or concerns? One of their issues is the spreading of the east side slums to the Amherst streets west of Bailey Ave. Instead of showing concern for an issue in Amherst that stems from the City, you cheer the problem as some sort of poetic justice.

I don't believe that anyone has an answer to the issue of poverty in the city. Industry and commerce will help but not solve all the problems. I am thankful that we have places like Amherst as an alternative to the city. When a company like GEICO or CITI can move to the area and offer their employees a variety of safe and desirable places to live. This is the same thing that attracts Buffalo residents to the suburbs. There are only so many times that you can hear the same excuses from politicians, police and school officials before you realize that the grass really is greener on the other side of the line.

Instead of condeming Amherst for being successful, why don't you look to them as an example of how to attract businesses, address crime, run schools, and maintain communities. Why not raise the bar of Buffalo to reflect Amherst's quality of life, instead of expecting Amherst to lower their standards to meet ours.

To say that Amherst has nothing to with what has happened in the city is to ignore history. If you don't know the history and are just looking at the way things are today I can' understand your point of view as a choice between two places.

But there are layers and layers of 'stuff' that got us to where we are today. The Suburbs (not just Amherst) did have a role to play in putting Buffalo in the position it is in today. How many decades have they not only turned their back on the problems of the city but fanned them by offering tax breaks 'new' companies willing to move out of the city. Does this create a little contempt.. maybe a little simply because people still don't connect the dots. Maybe I took too many history classes but to point fingers without an understanding of the past is divisive.

It's like stealing a TV from your neighbor's house and then then tell them how crappy their house is because they don't have a TV anymore without taking any responsibility.

Sbrof - I don't disagree with you, but to use your analogy, Buffalo had their TV stolen 50 years ago, and they still haven't done anything about it.

In a very simplistic sense, you can say that if Amherst wasn't developed then people would have to stay in the City. If the suburbs weren't attracting businesses, then those businesses might be in Buffalo, but that picture is incomplete. You can play the victim role and say that Amherst took people and jobs away from the City, but the city didn't do anything to counter what was happening. The city had numerous opportunities for development that ultimately wound up in the suburbs. The city had opportunities for improvement in services, but failed to act sufficiently. You cannot blame Amherst for the problems with the Buffalo Police Department or the Buffalo Public School's labor issues. There is a laundry list of missed opportunities for the City of Buffalo, including UB, Wilson Stadium, National Grid, Geico, Citigroup, Toyota, etc, etc, etc.

I think that you should connect the dots to see that it forms an arrow that points directly at City Hall.

Hoopgirl is right on, about the 'straight acting gays' vs. 'the open gays'. I, who is flamboyent (born that way, not trying to get attention for it), is "obvisous", Heather. But if I were 'Straight' acting, I would'nt have a hard time living here, much like most of my friends who don't understand my frustration towards Buffalo's hatred towards gays. If you could walk in my shoes along Main Streets Pedestrian Mall for a day, you will then see what it was like to be an African-American in Mississippi 50 years ago. The stares, nasty glares, heads turned, the loud shouts, the laughter, the "HEEEYYYYY" with a crooked hand screamed at me, and the rude service at any of the businesses. This is not what I'm used too and not where I would want to call "Home". So, I know exactly what Hoopgirl50 goes through in Buffalo. It's another world in B-lo. And yes, the grass IS greener elsewhere. I see Adam at New York Magazine didn't include my story as he only wanted the positives and those who were 'staying' to be included in this story.

Hoop'girl'50. Way to hijack a perfectly good discussion with your "issues" and beliefs. You made a choice and have to live with the consequences. Do NOT blame Buffalo for your shortcomings with society due to this change in your life.

I believe that people have reactions the way they do not because of teachings/experience alone, but a deeply rooted core belief in "normal" and "not normal" - people will inevitably be reactive to what you have chosen to do, did you honestly think that most of us would just shrug our shoulders and ignore what has happened? This is not 19th century thinking, it is one human thinking about another.

I believe your call for Buffalo to raise it's rainbow flag is uncalled for as well. This could be interpreted the same as calling for Buffalo to raise the christian flag, or some other belief...forcing a certain view on the rest of us will solve nothing, it may even make things worse for you and your type.

I have always lived by some creeds, religios or not. One of them is: "Live as you wish to live, as long as you don't force your views (or anything else) down my throat."

Hijacked indeed....Moving to Buffalo is a great idea, and a great place to live for all the reasons listed in this article, I see no reason to discuss this small interpretation while the meaning of this thread is otherwise.