Why Reducing Is the First Step in Growing
As the year 2007 nears an end, our Buffalo region continues to search for a new beginning. And more than ever, time is of the essence.
On average, every hour and forty minutes, one person moves out of Western New York. We’ve lost more 25 to 34-year-old residents than any other community in America. And as everyone knows, they’re leaving not out of desire, but out of necessity.
Over the past two decades, some 23,000 private sector jobs have vanished. Housing stock values and per capita income levels are down. We’ve closed public libraries, beaches, and pools, in the process chipping away at both our sense of community and sense of self. The City of Buffalo, the urban center on which our regional success rests, stands today as America’s second poorest city. And because politicians refused to accept change – even in the face of this utter collapse – we became America’s first city and region with not one but two outside control boards overseeing our fate.
If ever there existed a people and a time to consider new ways of self government, it is us and it is now. That’ why it’s important to affirm and reward those public servants willing to try new approaches, seek new ideas, and sacrifice individual interests for the collective good.
When we began the local government reform movement ten years ago, I thought that the powerful idea of regional strength would carry us to quick success. I was wrong. Between the fight put up by those who lead the status quo, and the fear among those who benefit from it, the journey has proven long and arduous, as it is in anything in life that’s worthwhile.
Unlike state and federal governments, which must reconcile large ideological differences in the course of serving citizens, local government has only one task: to deliver basic services that create a public foundation for private growth. In that responsibility, this generation has failed. They did so by expanding public offices to prolong private careers, all the while losing sight of government’s obligation to serve community rather than itself.
The good news is that the era in which local pols blah, blah, blah about “economic development,” “creating jobs,” and “public investment” is about to end. If those terms at one time held any meaning, they long ago lost it. Around America, a new language is emerging, one in which local servants concentrate resources on only those areas in which they can actually succeed – education, planning, public safety, and cultural support.
The cold and old cities in America that are winning the new century are doing so by making every decision in service of one idea: an educated, healthy, diverse, and culturally-strong population attracts others.
The bad news is that to bring this new approach to our community will require even more private citizen engagement in public matters. That’s where we come in.
The inception of regional reform ten years ago ushered in an equally important age, that of inclusive governance. Think of any of the large questions with which our community has been recently confronted: whether to build a new Peace Bridge; a new convention center; move the Buffalo Zoo; move Children’s Hospital; bury the western terminus of the Erie Canal, or place a suburban-style, fish and tackle store on it.
If those questions arose as recently as 10 years ago, they would’ve been decided by about 8 white men sitting behind a closed door in a private club. Instead, through citizen demand for transparent process, any person who wanted to affect those decisions has been empowered to do so.
As it turns out, this system of exhaustive public input is a pain in the neck. It’s difficult and time-consuming. But we must hold fast to it, and master it, for it’s our only path to creating wide consensus behind wise policy. And until we create a population of public servants willing to discharge that duty on our behalf, it’s our job to fill the vacuum they’ve created.
Today, 439 local politicians serve us in Erie County and its 44 subdivisions. That’s more than the 435 politicians who serve the entire nation in Congress. Their noise drowns out any clear voice for Western New York. And unless we place our number of politicians and governments in line with other successful regions, we’ll continue to whistle past the graveyard filled with those communities that failed.
John Adams once said that while we cannot guarantee success, we can deserve it. By reducing the size and cost of government, we can increase the opportunity and well-being of the people it serves. And with that change, we’ll not only deserve success, we’ll welcome it.
What Others Have To Say
What Do You Think?
Related Articles
-
My Favorite Buildings
After reading a recent Buffalo News story about funding and delays in renovation of the Buffalo State Psychiatric Hospital I was reminded of how much I love that building. This structure designed by H.H. Richardson is massive and I love the whole thing. However I really love the part that no one thinks of, the 1/4 mile long wings (or should I say wing since one wing was lopped off in the 60's). This building is not considered to be one of Richardson's best buildings. But, t …
- Sep 28th 2011, 11:02am
- Continue Reading
- 26 Comments
-
My Favorite Buildings
This house on Richmond Avenue is very unusual for Buffalo. It stands out among its wooden neighbors not only in material but also in detail and form. Buffalo is overwhelmingly constructed of wood with brick coming in a distant second as a material. Stone houses are very rare. Also rare is the Palazzo styling and shape of this house. Buffalo's Queen Anne Victorians are strong expressions of Buffalo's new money attitude in the late 1800's and early 1900's. Unlike staid Delawa …
- Sep 28th 2011, 11:00am
- Continue Reading
- 13 Comments
-
If You See This Posting, You're at the Wrong Site
We've updated Buffalo Rising. Some people haven't seen it yet, though, so if you're seeing this post, you need to refresh your browser to be taken to the new www.buffalorising.com. If hitting refresh alone doesn't do it, hold the *shift* key and hit refresh. If that doesn't work and you still see this old version of the site, try going to this story. That should certainly take you to the new site and from there, you can navigate around the new BuffaloRising.com.
- Feb 5th 2009, 9:21pm
- Continue Reading
- 3 Comments
-
The Wait is Almost Over - BR's New Site
As we mentioned in our previous post, we’re in the process of changing the Buffalo Rising site. We’re almost there as we expect to launch the new site on Friday, December 19th.
In the meantime, posting will be light as we log new stories in the new publishing system which will only be viewable when we launch on Friday.
As always, we appreciate our users’ patience as we make this transition but we promise it will be well worth it. With faster load times, a comment view … - Dec 18th 2008, 11:32am
- Continue Reading
- 6 Comments
Comment Options
ChocolateShake
I think our high local and state taxes do more to drive people away than a metro government would do to bring them to Buffalo... albeit an amaglamated government is long overdue but will be hard to accomplish with the hard feelings that exist, as illustrated on this webpage, between the city and its sister communities.
Report this
Hospitable
High tax isnt always a bad thing.... its the high tax and low service that we see in this area thats the killer.
Nice rehash of everything we arleady know:
1. Nobody wants to leave 2. We have to leave to find work 3. Politicans are ignorant here
I have noticed the trend here and in other North EAstern cities.... investing in a quality of life (education, healtcare, environment etc).. that YOU CANNOT FIND DOWN SOUTH...but of course, Buffalo is behind AGAIN.
Stop investing in civil servants and invest in infrastructure
Education is key..
Turn away from economic development and shovel ready sites and please pay some attention to quality of life issues..pave more streets, plant more trees, lay infrastructure for growing commercial districts...
We are soooo focused on turning around the population decline that we're not paying any attention to what we already have...... would it not be smart to reinforce what you have now before you invest somwhere else in the name of "job creation"...??
Report this
orlanmon
In the Buffalo News - In the effort to create a more regional approach to economic development in respect to IDAs I hope this Bill that Sam Hoyt has drafted gains some momentum in Albany. Enough of the suburban sprawl with huge business parks opening up in Lancaster off of Walden Ave. and in Clarence and Amherst. Hopefully if the ECIDA becomes the the sole IDA with the abiliy to grant state and county tax breaks it will have the upperhand in negotiating with companies to open up shop back downtown and within the immediate metro area if it is zoned for business. Not sure who else is backing this Bill...
http://www.buffalonews.com/cityregion/southernsuburbs/story/224970.html
Report this
ChocolateShake
"High tax isnt always a bad thing.... "
It sure as hell is if you are trying to attract private investment and encourage economic growth - something that is lacking in Upstate NY in general and Buffalo in particular.
Report this
gaustad
Chocalate Shake is DEAD ON - the taxes here SUCK! Who the hell wants to own a home here - 300k house averages about 9000 a year in taxes. THAT IS OUTRAGEOUS.
DO THE MATH - the payment on a 300k house with the taxes is the equivalnet to owning a 600k house in Vegas, Charlotte, or Phoenix and long term the house will go up in value - NOT HERE!
THE ENTIRE TAX STRUTURE HERE FOR PRIVATE SECTOR IS MUCH HIGHER THAN ANYWHERE ELSE.
Report this
AtwaterLouse
What's really "whistling past the graveyard" to use Mr. Gaughan's expression, is blaming the number of unpopular politicians while pretending the 99.5% of local budgets isn't where much more serious problems really are.
The Buffalo News today printed an estimate of Mr. Gaughan's plan's annual savings if all 44 municipalities agree to it: $9 million/year total.
That's fine but a very small percent (about half of 1% of total budgets across Erie Co which I think are near 2 billion - somebody correct me if it's wrong). I'll support Mr. Gaughan's suggestion and vote Yes in referendums to cut the common council and county leg if he convinces those bodies to shrink. But I think his article above greatly exaggerates the impact of 0.5% savings when he lists all those problems and implies the number of politicians was a significant part of thier cause.
Most of our taxes are spent on public employee contracts and entitlement payments, and it's much harder to cut those costs. It's nice to cut 0.5% of local govt costs for unpopular politicians But special interests will fight to prevent cuts to the other 99.5% of budgets. ChocolateShake is right, taxes are the biggest impediment to growth in Buffalo and Upstate. NYS taxes especially, and this won't affect those at all.
Report this
jamesbflo
goose... a 300,000$ home here would be worth far more than 600,000 in the places you named. in which case, taxes here are cheaper. its all relative.
Report this
KevinGaughan
The aim of my “The Cost” project (www.thecost.org) is to get a foothold on the death grip that our government structure has on our local economy. Until we create a public system that boosts rather than burdens private investment, we'll continue to lose the vitality -- indispensible to all life -- of change and growth.
Along with countless others, I've attempted for some time to get to what some readers rightly point to as the overriding problem: the cost not just of our politicians, but of government generally and the too many folks engaged in providing public services. We've tried to reform that larger problem for several years. And met with no success.
The insight I had when I thought of The Cost project was, as George Bailey says to bank depositors during the run on the Bailey Building & Loan in Frank Capra's "It's A 'Wonderful Life," perhaps we're "thinking about this thing all wrong." It's proven impossible to eliminate the "body" of the problem because the head(s) are still there. And I realized that the way to get to the body was to first eliminate those heads/politicians who provide the body with patronage jobs, political protection, etc.
I recognize that this beginning foray appears on the margins. But it seems to me that if both the main house and the adjacent small barn are on fire, extinguishing the barn gives us better and safer access to get the house under control as well.
I've learned in my work that the gift of being able to encourage others to embrace new ideas rests on the caliber of relationship you have with them. And that relationship must be built on understanding and trust. Toward that end, over the past year I've spent considerable time with town councilman and women, village trustees, and mayors throughout Erie County, just listening to them speak of their jobs and responsibilities.
And that’s why this tour that I’m on of every town and village in Erie County is succeeding. Already the Village of Lancaster has agreed to adopt my proposal of eliminating two politicians. And soon, i hope, other will sign on. If every one of our 44 local governments agree, that will eliminate 88 politicians, saving some $9 million per year, or almost $100 million over the next decade.
And if this comes to pass, at least we'll have proven that we can change in the Buffalo Niagara region. And that's something about which I think every citizen will rejoice.
I hope you'll consider coming to one of the stops on our tour. It's great fun -- and a great education -- to look our public servants in the eye and ask them to change so that this magnificent community of ours can become everything it deserves to be.
Warm Regards,
Kevin Gaughan
Report this
pgf1948
Aside from poor employment prospects, property taxes in upstate and western New York are indeed the most significant drag on the economy and the revival of the region. Although the two are not at all unrelated.
We have so many times considered moving to the area, only to realize that you can afford (especially in retirement) either a mortgage or the taxes, but comfortably not both.
I can pay $2300 annually in taxes for a place in Brooklyn that cost us $450,000. But, aside from the difference in the initial investment, we're in a pretty area near a subway line that connects us to the entire metro area; don't have to own a car and pay ridiculous rates for car insurance; have all the endless advantages of New York City; and a much lower chance of crime walking the streets (where there ARE people out walking!).
Report this
platt4
Kevin- I don't know how much you hear this on a daily basis, but "THANK YOU" for taking the lead on this. No surprise you're taking shots from the protectors of the status quo...keep plowing forward. Bravo!
Report this
BROKEEPSBLOCKINGME
kevin glad to see someone stand up to these career teet sucking politicos
Report this
viking
How about a different look at the equation, lets say each politician is worth 10 patronage positions and each of those gets paid an average of $20.000.00 a year but for the sake of argument there is overlap, reducing each politician to 5 patronage positions, or a reduction of ( 5 x 88 = 440 x $20.000.00 = $8,8000,000 ) plus what Atwater estimates (9 mil.) or a grant total of $17 mil. Now that's a significant reduction, wouldn't one agree at this junction any reduction could be called a victory and cause for celebration.
Report this
tonyarmani
Kevin, coming from a guy who recently moved out of Buffalo to find prosperity you gotta do 3 things man:
1. Find a way to lower taxes 2. Reduce and educate the political figures in office 3. Rid the city of Unions
The city must be right-sized before it can be super sized. I hate to say it but Giambra was right, regionalism would help the area. We have to learn to do more with less, and to make the area more appealing to businesses. Give them tax breaks, let them build where they want, do whatever you can to bring in as many jobs possible. That will be the only thing that keeps this city competitive.
Report this
RisingDamp666
Is someone really "moving out every hour and forty minutes"? Or is someone dying and not being replaced every hour and forty minutes? In a region with a significant percentage of aging residents, this makes a difference. The stereoypical image of people packing their bags and blowing town for some subtropical locale just seems dated. Most major cities in the Northeast are aging rapidly. Many of the kids are indeed moving away to pursue careers in the sunbelt but the bigger story here is that for cities like Buffalo, the population that is dying off is not being replaced by either children or immigrants. The exceptions to this are cities like Boston and New York that continue to draw people from all over the world. Buffalo, with its insular culture and evaporated manufacturing economy, just isn't in this constellation. And tax-wise, Buffalo is a victim of being in the same state as New York City. No tax reform that could revive entrepreneurship in Buffalo could ever survive the forces in Albany that have decreed that downstate successes must be relentlessly poached "for the greater good" of the balance of the state. In New York State, everybody bleeds equally. New York City survives because it enjoys fresh transfusions of wealth while the rest of the state bleeds out completely. Upstate New York needs more autonomy so we can craft our own tax code and break free of the constraints of this treacherous orbit with The City.
Report this
rubygreta
Gaustad said - "DO THE MATH - the payment on a 300k house with the taxes is the equivalnet to owning a 600k house in Vegas, Charlotte, or Phoenix"
I did the math. If you buy a $300,000 house in Buffalo and take a $240,000 mortgage, your monrthly mortgage payment should be about $1,500. Taxes @ $9,000 are $750 per month. Total montly payment is $2,250.
In Pheonix you by a $600,000 and take a $480,000 mortgage (assuming you can save the $120,000). The mortgage is about $3,000 per month, and if the taxes are $5,000 per year they are about $400 per month. Total monthly payment is $3,450, or $1,250 more than the Buffalo payment.
There are too many people that are obsessed with Buffalo's tax rate. It is more than offset by ridiculously low real estate prices. And property values in Vegas and Pheonix are going down. They are going up in Buffalo.
Report this
AtwaterLouse
Viking, No, the 9M already includes related patronage staff (and who knows if they'll get cut anyhow, but it assumes they do). In other words the estimate is making the most optimistic assumptions it can. And it will reach 9M only if all 44 municipalities go along. Probably if even half do it that will be a lot of compliance, so we're talking 4.5M.
I'm not even sure $9M is realistic since he previously said the total cost of all politicians and their patronage staffs is $32M. So $9M would be 28% of that. But that's apparently what the anser he gave the Buffalo News so I'll accept that as a good faith estimate. No way it could be $17M if the total is $32M (which would be over half).
Yes you're right, any reduction is good and I join in thanking him for the effort. I'm sure I sound like an ingrate for saying anything less than laudatory. But again if 99.5% of total budget amount is left alone and almost never discussed for cuts this just seems very minor. If the accountant for your restaurant made a big deal about saving you 0.5% you'd be happy, but if he then exaggerated that by implying it would solve more problems than common sense tells you it will... then at some point you might ask him to keep it in perspective. The article discusses everything from population decline to the control boards. $9M is in the budgetary margin of error when you consider that's spread out among all 44 govts whose total budgets add up to over 2 billion.
Well, it is at least something in the right direction, and as I said I'll support it where I live. But I'd like it better if he himself would put this in percentage perspecive in interviews and say how much of a small step this is and give notice to the special interests that for real savings they will have to accept cuts in the other 99.5%. Seems that never comes up. Today was the first time I ever noticed a Buffalo News reporter mentioning any money numbers at all about this.
Report this
RisingDamp666
So true, rubygreta, and those taxes in Phoenix and Vegas could move upward if the falling valuations fail to bring in the revenue needed to help their infrastructure keep up with past growth. These places could be in a bind. Buffalo valuations are, for the most part, pretty solid but sub-prime lending in the inner city could pull things downward although nothing like beautiful Cleveland... which is Craterville.
Report this
Sulley
ruby, while it is true that Buffalo has cheap real estate prices compared to places on the coast and in the west, when you compare the metro vis-Ă -vis to other similiar mid-sized cities (such as Nashville, Birmingham, Indianapolis, OKC, Louisville, etc.) they're about the same... especially in the suburban areas. Metro Buffalo's average home price is brought down by the city.
I own a house in suburban Buffalo that's worth about $120k and my property taxes are $3499 this year. I own a house in suburban Nashville that's larger, newer, and worth about $160k - the property taxes on it are only $1500.
Report this
AtwaterLouse
Yeah, Tennessee is #48 out of 50. Mirror image of NYS's rank.state+local taxes 2007 Sorry, had it handy.
Report this
westsider
Hey! Go to Mr. Gaughan's site...thecost.org and hit 'compare to others'...do the math with that. He's got a solution that is sensible.
Report this
BROKEEPSBLOCKINGME
Gaustad is right...my payment on my $315k home in Summerlin in Las Vegas is $1739 including taxes($1700/yr), insurance, and neighborhood HOA dues. In Buffalo payment on a $200k home is $1654 (taxes $5350/yr) with no HOA to maintain the neighborhoods. The property tax problem is a real epidemic...everyone talks about affordability yet the properrty taxes are hidden from outsiders until they discover it and realize theyd rather invest where taxes are 1/6 cheaper elsewhere...Id rather pay into equity in my payments than into prop. taxes to keep the bloated status quo government of WNY in their career politican jobs and fat ass pensions and health benefits to get breast enhancement surgery, hair tramsplants, and viagra...that all city union members get...Sorry, thats not capitalism in every other city beside BUFFALO
Report this
Keith
I think I like what Kevin is trying to do but I am still trying to get my head around these statements:
"If those questions arose as recently as 10 years ago, they would’ve been decided by about 8 white men sitting behind a closed door in a private club" "As it turns out, this system of exhaustive public input is a pain in the neck. It’s difficult and time-consuming." "Today, 439 local politicians serve us in Erie County and its 44 subdivisions."
So are there too few people making decisions or too many? Is a large group unworkable or preferred? What if those 8 white guys have divesity of thought? Isn't that better than a racially mixed group with similarly bad ideas?
I think I like what Kevin is doing, but I can't tell from this piece.
Report this
shodoc
Forgive me for my negative comments but lets face some facts. The modern youth and professionals of today are much more mobile now than the past. They are less tied to family and locality. In the past youth lived near their parents for those close family ties. Now we are much more mobile and willing to change jobs and have less of a strong bond to our culture and family. For me that is the only reason why I would want to stay in the Buffalo area. Upstate NY has no other redeeming value to me and alot of negative. I moved to a warmer climate with a better economy and not only much lower taxes but much lower everything else. New York overcharges you for everything. Every fee and license or insurance you buy is much more expensive than I pay. That is home insurance, car insurance, licenses, fees, registration, gas tax, professional insurance and your rediculous sales tax. Did you fill your gas tank at $2.79/gallon last week? Frankly when you really look at everthing you pay for, the state government and the rest of them have their big hands in your pockets. So its not just property taxes that you are overpaying. If you added it up, you wouldn't be happy. I hate to tell you but you aren't getting anything extra for paying more. Our schools are better, the roads are better and the police keep us just as safe as you. Therefore can you blame anybody who is intelligent and mobile for packing it up and taking their skills and profession some place else.
Report this
viking
Atwater, your right any saving at this point would be welcome , I not sure we really disagree on anything, except that maybe Kevin's optimism and attempt to create movement in the right direction is misplaced. The investment of time and effort is what impresses me, I realize that some believe him to have an agenda and that's fine with me as long as that agenda is in a direction of improvement of the current conditions. Kevin stays on tract with suggestions for improving our situation and at least he has been diligent in addressing the problems. Numbers only represent a tangible goal but without the constant attention to what they really mean and the actions to change them, we will be stuck in limbo getting no results.
Report this
sbrof
part of those high taxes come from the civil servents that we must pay higher than standard salaries with all the fringe benefits and helper servants to go with them.
Plus you look at the economic growth happening in Germany, Japan (number 2 and 3 economic powers of the planet) and both.. BOTH have much higher taxes than the US and Buffalo overall. So no taxes are not the sole reason businesses move from one place to another. It is exactly what others have said. It is the lack of higher services and the fact that our taxes don't ever seem to come back to us in their form. We pay high taxes and have mediocre schools. We pay high taxes and have mediocre roads, we pay high taxes and have mediocre transit, police, fireman... the list goes on.
Companies would be more willing to move here if they knew they and their employees would have a stellar quality of life. If they knew their children would be educated above the national average putting them in at the head of the pack for the next generation of jobs. They would pay the higher taxes if they knew they had reliable power, no outages, if they knew they would have proper social services if they or their children were to ever need them. They would pay the higher taxes if they knew their air and water were cleaner. The problem is you can get only marginally better services here than in the south but a difference not worth the price.
Report this
rubygreta
To RisingDamp366 - Buffalo will not be impacted by subprime losses to the extent Cleveland is. Why? Because many subprime lenders had miniumum loan amounts of $50,000. Through flipping, fraud and bogus appraisals, the real estate community in Cleveland was able to inflate the values of inner city dumps from their actual values of say $35,000, to $55,000 or $65,000. With those higher values, subprime came into play, big time.
In Buffalo, the east side is so horrible, that no amount of flipping, fraud and bogus appraisals could get the values of the houses over $50,000. So that is why Buffalo (and Rochester and Syracuse) will not have same fallout as Cleveland.
Report this
buffalocat
While I agree with many of ShoDoc's points, I'm a young professional who moved BACK to Buffalo from the south, which might sound crazy, but my husband (who moved back from Colorado) and I couldn't be happier here - unless taxes were lower. The main difference for us was the ability to actually buy a house with a traditional (versus a subprime) mortgage, and maintain a high quality of life without going into debt. Other than our mortgage, we are debt-free, despite working social-sector jobs - something we couldn't do in the places where we had previously lived. I know someone is going to jump in and point out that if we'd moved to Nashville or Birmingham, we could've done it, but some of the things we love about Buffalo are just a lot harder to find in other cities, so we chose to come here.
We are worried about the schools (but I lived in North Carolina and taught in Louisiana, and I do disagree that the schools are "better" in the south - you really have to examine how the School Performance Scores are being calculated, because they aren't equal across state lines, and even the highest performing schools in North Carolina are on par with the mid-range ones in NYState, if you control for various test and missed days). We hate the taxes ($3400 on our $175k house). We wish our friends lived closer. But we can afford to travel, to eat out, to buy local and natural products, AND we live in a fabulous house that we love.
I think Buffalo should start advertising these characteristics to young professionals. I have several friends who came to visit us this summer who are now considering Buffalo as a viable move. They are tired of living month-to-month, with no hope of saving or buying a home, despite holding Master's Degrees. They want to move somewhere more affordable, and even when you talk about our high taxes and gas prices, etc. it's still cheaper to live here than anywhere else I've lived. So let's focus on getting an influx of young people who care about these things, and then hopefully reducing the taxes once we have a larger base.
Report this
tonyarmani
buffalocat - not to rain on your parade but young people really don't worry much about natural products and fabulous houses - we are more worried about making enough (and keeping it) to pay off school loans, rent, utilities, and taxes - 3 things that the government has a hand in and COULD lower if they wanted..
Report this
BROKEEPSBLOCKINGME
forbes magazine rated buffalo with the 7th highest gas prices in the US. www.forbes.com
Report this
zen
tonyarmani- I'm 40 but I must have youthful outlook since all I'm concerned abt is making enough to pay off school loans, mortgage, utilities, and taxes
Report this
rubygreta
Gas prices are the least of your worries. This is not NYC or Atlanta, where many drive 50 to 100 miles a day, often idling in traffic. And there are great cars like the Civic and the Corolla that get 35MPG or more on the highway. So if the average round trip commute is 20 miles, it would cost about $1.75 a day for gas.
The real killer is property taxes.
Report this
Sulley
Things like this always bothers me.
"We are worried about the schools (but I lived in North Carolina and taught in Louisiana, and I do disagree that the schools are "better" in the south - you really have to examine how the School Performance Scores are being calculated, because they aren't equal across state lines, and even the highest performing schools in North Carolina are on par with the mid-range ones in NYState, if you control for various test and missed days)."
Schools in major metropolitan areas in the South can compare to anywhere else in the nation. As someone who was educated in Ohio, Texas, and Tennessee, I somewhat take offense to statements like this. Why? I was a 3.95 student that went to a "Blue Ribbon" accredited high school. Everything was state of the art and we had exellent equipment, staff, and opportunity. After graduating, I went on to get a BS degree and will finish my MBA soon. Just because I wasn't educated in Buffalo, am I less intelligent than my Northern peers?
Report this
buffalocat
Whoa - people are really quick to jump down people's throats for their statements. Sulley - I definitely did NOT mean that being educated elsewhere makes you less intelligent than anybody else. I was pointing out that sometimes I think people make comments like "schools are better in ____" (fill in the blank with any place, whether it's houston or buffalo or portland), without really having an understanding of how those schools are ranked that way. For example, I absolutely HATE the "100 Top Ranked Schools" list from Newsweek (or maybe it's US News & World Reports), because it's based largely on the percent of students who take IB or AP classes. A lot of these schools offer only these courses, but students may or may not take the exam and those who do may or may not score well on these tests, but these things aren't considered. Obviously I could go on and on about this, but back to the original point. I didn't say that schools in the south are worse than those in the north, I simply said that I disagree with the statement (which someone else made) that schools in the south are better than those in the north. I maintain that schools in America, in general, are not as great as they could be, and to understand how "good" or "bad" they are really requires examination of more than simply SPS and AYP. Does that make sense? Definitely did not mean to offend...
And, as far as tonyarmani's comments, I think you're right to a certain extent. But in my experience, young people living in higher-rent areas (like my friends in DC, Houston, NYC, San Diego) lament the fact that they spend the majority of their income on rent, loans, and utilities, which renders them unable to spend money on things that they feel are important to them (perhaps travelling, buying or investing in environmentally-conscious products, going out to dinner, etc) and also unable to save any money. My point is that this tends to be easier in Buffalo than it would be in these other places, because our cost of living is lower while jobs (at least in my field - and I know this isn't true for everybody!!) pay the same. So, my husband and I are able to do all the necessary things, like pay rent (now mortgage) WHILE paying off student loans, going out to dinner, buying organic food on our income, which is equivalent to that of my friends paying $1800/mo in DC. But I do agree with you, since when I lived in North Carolina, the things that you listed were constantly on my mind, and I couldn't afford to support the lifestyle I really wanted.
Report this
Sulley
Okay, I agree with you then -- especially on this point: " maintain that schools in America, in general, are not as great as they could be, and to understand how "good" or "bad" they are really requires examination of more than simply SPS and AYP."
I'm glad I have a $550 rent payment here where I am now... but also owning a house at the same time makes things a tad bit more complicated!
Report this
shodoc
buffalocat I think it is great that you moved to Western New York. WNY has great people and great food and it made me who I am to some degree. I disagree though with your "opinions". which are not facts. What rating system are you using to show the schools are better in western NY. If your system of analysis is better than that used by the national journals or other agencies you better call them and give them you system. There are very few high schools out of downstate NY which rate at all in any survey. While the schools in NC, VA etc have done very well. Also look at state univerisities. University of Virginia has ranked within the top two public universities in the country every year for the best value for your money.UVA, UNC, Georgia Tech, University of Florida to name few are powerhouses in the Academics, Research and Engineering besides athletics. You can't say that for UB, Buffalo state and most other NYS public colleges. Also our cost of living is no more than yours when it comes to food and other merchandise. We do pay our government much less in all forms of taxation and fees than you as I explained in my prior comment including our much lower income tax than NYS. Therefore my cost of living is less than yours. And by the way the fancy houses in Clarence and Amherst are not much cheaper than our comparable homes. The famous saying that you get what you pay for does not apply to government. There is no paradise anywhere in th US when it comes to taxes and government but you guys deserve better and you aren't getting what you pay for.
Report this
RPreskop
It is very obvious that there is too damn much local government for this region. Why do we need all these tax-wasting politicians on the local level? This is basically a mid-sized metropolitan area of slightly over one million people but if you looked at the massive number of politicians you would be led to think Metro Buffalo was similar in size to New York or Chicago but in reality that is very far from the truth. For starters, lets abolish all the incorporated villages like Williamsville, Sloan, Kenmore, and Blasdell. Most of these villages do not provide most of the local services anymore. The local services have been provided by the towns so the purpose of these village governments is mostly for community identity. That is mighty expensive community identity and it is time to face the hard fact that these villages no longer need to have their own local governments. Just taking this one major step and abolishing all the incorporated villages in Erie County will help cut down on the number of politicians and cut the local taxes. But unfortunately, given the unprogressive, backward attitudes that predominate in WNY chances of this or any form of consolidation ever happening are slim to none.
Report this
BROKEEPSBLOCKINGME
Bottom Line, Buffalo civil service sector outnumbers Chicago's by 4 to 1...nuff said
Report this
magnum
Consolidation isn't about saving money, people who point this out are truly ignorant(the Buffalo News). Consolidation is about speaking with ONE voice, how can this be done with 439 politicians.
Report this
buffalocat
Hey shodoc - I agree with you 100% regarding the higher education you mentioned. In fact, I was educated at both an ivy league school (BS) and UNC-Chapel Hill (Master's), and UNC's education was by far superior - definitely a first rate institution. I have had limited experience with UB, but it has not been impressive. I think they have a long way to go, but I do think they are making an effort. But yes - in terms of higher ed. the southern state schools you mention definitely have top marks.
But as for high school education, I don't agree with the ranking systems currently used by major publications. As I stated in my last post, I don't think using the percent of students enrolled in AP/IAB classes is NOT a good measure of a high school's performance. City Honors, in Buffalo, makes this list, but I just don't think it says very much about the educational situation in those schools, for a variety of reasons. I don't have a solution for this. In my opinion, you have far too many schools to really come up with a "Top 100 Public High Schools in America" list. There are so many other measures that could be used (some of which are admittedly hard to quantify) that might give us a better picture of where American education stands, and where it is headed.
As for the SPS and AYP measures, I have real issues with these as well. These aren't used in rankings (like US News and World Report style), but are used to determine funding under NCLB and also to decide which schools are showing "outstanding" progress versus no progress. My qualifier is that I probably know waaaay more than I should about NCLB - I wrote my master's thesis on it - so I'm not going to go into all the minute details, but I'll bring it back to my original point: The way AYP and SPS are determined varies from state to state, and the way SPS and AYP are used is also problematic. I'll give one example: in some states, special education students' scores were not factored in to SPS, so these schools have higher SPSs (and therefore need smaller increases to reach AYP) than school districts that did include special education students' scores. Under NCLB, all schools will be required to include these scores, and those not reaching AYP will also have to break these scores down by race and at-risk status, but until that happens, there are different measures used to calculate the "same" scores, as reported at the federal level.
Obviously, I'm way off topic. But I just want to point out again that I'm not saying schools in the South are terrible and ours are great. In fact, I stated our main concern about living here IS the schools! But I also want to point out that the system of measurement in America is not particularly equitable or revealing. Rather than looking nationally for comparisons, I think people should be focused on doing all they can to improve their area's schools - because let's face it - they ALL need improvement.
Report this
fleur526
1. There are actually a lot of things in Buffalo that could attract businesses- an over-educated population willing to work for cheap (btw, that's what causes a brain drain- a surplus of educated, qualified people); universities full of undergrad students looking for un/low-paid internships and grad students who can do lab work; existing companies in specific sectors of the market that are actually doing ok (it's true- when a company is considering a move to a new area, they check to see how companies in the same sector are doing), and all of my friends with degrees in finance, medicine and IT have been able to find jobs here; exposure to all 4 seasons with beaches and ski resorts within an hour drive; easy access to the other big cities in the east; a thriving cultural scene with decent schools to keep workers happy. Believe it or not, taxes are not the only thing companies look at. Maybe if we advertised more of these aspects of our city (instead of cutting the mere $1m allotted to that out of the budget), people would notice, instead of making Buffalo the butt of meteorological and sports jokes. 2. I graduated from college a few years ago, and my boyfriend and I (and many of our friends) have been able to find jobs in our field, live in a great neighborhood (Parkside, represent!), pay our bills (and there are some hefty student loans to contend with), and have money left to spare to enjoy ourselves and save for the future. So it's not all doom, gloom and nepotism- only if you're in the wrong job sector with unrealistic expectations(hello psych majors). 3. I agree with the many previous writers on the topic of beaurocracy. The Erie county is the largest employer in the area, and the people who work there receive better benefits than any private company I've seen (except maybe google). Hopefully Paul Collins ("the businessman") will be able to look at this and come up with a solution that is more budget friendly, but not devastating to the employees.
Report this
sally
fleur - myth patrol here.
1)Buffalo does not have an overly eeducated populace - federal stats show that Buffalo's Metro area percentage of college grads is BELOW the national average.
2) There is NO demonstable brain drain of our youth. Federal statistics clearly show that the number of our young that have moved out of the area trails the national average on a percentage basis. The problem is the number of young moving INTO the area is among the lowest in the nation,
3) The decrease in our young is not due to out migration it is due to fewer births in the 1980's - this is due to the fact that it was there parents that moved out en mass in the 1970-1985 time period. Thus they were not here to have children in the 1980's and 1990's. If you look at those that were in their 20's at the 1990 census and compare to the 2000 census you will see that there are more 30-35 year olds in 2000 than there were 20-25 year olds in 1990. The young did not move - they aged and were not replaced.
Report this
sally
On the whole Kevin's analysis seem simplistic and very poorly thought out. His statement that one person moves out of the Buffalo area every 1 hour and 40 minutes is incorrect. Ilooked it up, which is something he should do before making such statements publicly if he wishes to have any credibility. According to the US estimates here is the data. One person moves out of the area ever 58 minutes. One person moves into the area from another part of the USA every 1 hour and 12 minutes. One person moves into the area from another country every 5 hours and 35 minutes. One person is born every 37 minutes and one person dies every 41 minutes. This is extrapolated from metro Buffalo population estimates prepared by the US Census Bureau and covers the 6 years through July 1, 2006. Unlike Kevins hyperbole my numbers are based upon official US data and not pulled out of thin air.
Report this
sally
Yet another Kevin Gaughn lie - he said that 23,000 private sector jobs have been lost. The Dept of Labor whose web site goes back to 1990 shows that in January of 1990 there were 439,700 private sector jobs in the Buffalo metro, in January of this year there were 442,600 a GAIN of 2,900. get that gain NOT loss. Avery poor gain to be sure but a gain none the less. If you want to compare full years you can see on their web site that in 2006 we had 452,100 private sector jobs compared to 440,700 private sector jobs in 1993. That is a GAIN of 11,400 PRIVATE SECTOR jobs. It appear that My Gaughn is only off by 34,400 jobs in his supposed area of expertise. That is an error rate of nearly 10%. The man has no credibility.
Report this
fleur526
Sally, whoa, way to jump down people's throats while not offering solutions. By over-educated population I didn't mean that the entire Buffalo metro area is over-educated (i don't think anyone could visit the inner city and accuse all of buffalo of being over-educated), just that there is a specific demographic within the overall population that is over-educated and is also more likely than average to leave the area. By brain drain, I meant that the young people moving out of the area are by and large recent college grads- thus, they are educated here, see no readily available jobs, and so get out of Dodge. Your response #2 seems to deal with the entire demo of 20somethings of all educational backgrounds, rather than 20somethings who have completed undergrad studies or above, which is what I was talking about. You seem to be an excellent fact finder, so I'd be interested to know what you can find as far as that stat goes.
Report this
sally
Fluer Read the truth about the Brain Drain here: http://www.newyorkfed.org/research/regional_economy/glance/upstate_glance1_07.pdf
By not understanding what the problem is you cannot fix it. Kevein Gaughan clearly does not understand the problem. He is too jingoistic>
Report this
tonyarmani
sally - u must have been drinkin your haterade today...im sure there are 100 different sources with different stats..the overall point that he is trying to make is right, there are too many people in government. The civil servants and unions have a death grip on this city (and state) and its sickening...something has to be done
Report this
sally
His overall point is WRONG we have gained private sector jobs not lost them. There is no dispute to the official job counts based upon payroll records. The numbers are what they are and they show that Gaughan data is WRONG. He is either clueless or he is lying. Either way it is obvious he is in way over his head. He needs to get a real job and quit pretending he is an expert on a topic he obviously knows little about.
Report this
viking
Read Sally's comment collection with her profile, I did, this person needs prosaic, negativity is the main feature. Sally may have access to deferent data than Kevin's or his/her interpretation is based on predetermine reasoning. In any event there is no happy face, no hope of a brighter future, no suggestions for improvement, only standoff negativity in comments about a variety of subjects. Sorry Sally we feel your pain.
Report this
sally
What are you talking about I am being negative when I state the fact that this area has gained over 11,000 PRIVATE sector jobs over the past dozen years. How does point out job gains which are verifiale count as negativity. It is the article with it's LIE that we lost 23,000 jobs that is being needlessly negative. Repeat after me JOB GAIN is good, JOB LOSS is bad. Only in Buffalo would someone view job growth as a negative thing. BTW prosaic is very poetic of you but if you are referring to a medication go to your bottle and get the spelling off of your label.
Report this
viking
Sally what does the word verifiale mean????? Tranquilizers is that what is called for, anger management, no sense of humor, beating people up on the web, Shame I know your parents taught you better.
Report this